Future of Division III

[CrashDavisD3]

Per NCAA Website 40 percent of NCAA student-athletes compete at Division III institutions but get only 3.18 percent of NCAA operating budget 

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/About+the+NCAA/Who+We+Are/Differences+Among+the+Divisions/Division++III/About+Division+III

[Ron Boerger]

But they probably generate about .0318% of the NCAA's operating revenue, so ...

[Gray Fox]

But they probably generate about .0318% of the NCAA's operating revenue, so ...

But they get featured on the ads that say "most will not be going pro."

[Steve Wiitala]

But they probably generate about .0318% of the NCAA's operating revenue, so ...

I thought the purpose of the NCAA was to support and govern intercollegiate athletics, not to make money.  If one part of a non-profit is making money and another isn't, but is part of the mission, it deserves a reasonable level of support.  We've gotten our priorities all messed up.  College athletics is supposed to be a part of a student's education, not the be-all and end-all of it.

[108 Stitches]

Hey Steve I am not sure what gave you the idea that the NCAA is about the students when you have a multi-billion dollar business, with guys running it making millions of dollars, but the NCAA is NOT about the student athlete. There are a number of good books on the subject. You can start with "Beer and Circus" book. The interesting thing is that nearly 100% of the NCAA's money comes from the D1 basketball tournament and it funds pretty much everything the NCAA does.

[Ron Boerger]

But they probably generate about .0318% of the NCAA's operating revenue, so ...

I thought the purpose of the NCAA was to support and govern intercollegiate athletics, not to make money.  If one part of a non-profit is making money and another isn't, but is part of the mission, it deserves a reasonable level of support.  We've gotten our priorities all messed up.  College athletics is supposed to be a part of a student's education, not the be-all and end-all of it.

If they are spending 3.2% of funds on D3 but recouping less than 1% of that, they're supporting D3 and I would call it a decent level of support.  If they didn't raise massive amounts of funds from D1 sports, they wouldn't have as much to give D3, and I have a hard time telling the AA that they should lose even more money on D3 than they already are. 

Could it be better?   Sure.  But all you have to do is look at the bad old days before Pool A-B-C, when undefeated football teams were left at home because the playoff pool was so small, to realize that it could be worse.

[Ralph Turner]

40-50 years ago, the NAIA was almost comparable in most sports below the top of University Division NCAA. IN fact, the NAIA champ in most sports would have beaten the College Division champ.

The funding provided by the total organization of the NCAA over 4 decades has permitted the NCAA to grow dramatically in Division FCS, D-II and D-III, and frequently at the expense of the NAIA.

I will bet that 3.18% is pretty close to the contribution to the organization by D-III schools in dues, gate receipts, souvenirs, and revenue from media fees, etc.  If D-III schools were generating 30% more revenue to the NCAA, then I suspect that we would be getting 4.18% of the revenue back.

[Ralph Turner]

Hey Steve I am not sure what gave you the idea that the NCAA is about the students when you have a multi-billion dollar business, with guys running it making millions of dollars, but the NCAA is NOT about the student athlete. There are a number of good books on the subject. You can start with "Beer and Circus" book. The interesting thing is that nearly 100% of the NCAA's money comes from the D1 basketball tournament and it funds pretty much everything the NCAA does.

And we are very grateful for that. The newest/current March Madness contract is what permitted D-III to increase the number of Pool C bids offered across all playoffs.

[Steve Wiitala]

Hey Steve I am not sure what gave you the idea that the NCAA is about the students when you have a multi-billion dollar business, with guys running it making millions of dollars, but the NCAA is NOT about the student athlete. There are a number of good books on the subject. You can start with "Beer and Circus" book. The interesting thing is that nearly 100% of the NCAA's money comes from the D1 basketball tournament and it funds pretty much everything the NCAA does.

There is definitely a gap between what they say they are, which is what I stated, and what they actually do.

In the sport that interests me, which is hockey, it seems like we get the short end of the stick, so to speak. The tournament procedures, create totally illogical situations with seedings and match ups based totally on the NCAA's dictates about minimizing flights.  That issue seems to impact other sports a lot less.

[smedindy]

Don't ask the folks in TX and CA about football (and basketball) seedings, then, Steve.

[Ralph Turner]

Don't ask the folks in TX and CA about football (and basketball) seedings, then, Steve.

Or an undefeated Mississippi College team having to fly for a Sweet 16 game rather than 3 teams with worse records being sent to Clinton MS or a #1 Trinity TX Men's soccer team going on the road after the first weekend.


.

[Pat Coleman]

Don't ask the folks in TX and CA about football (and basketball) seedings, then, Steve.

Yes -- it happens in football and basketball a lot. Hockey is nowhere near alone on this.

[Steve Wiitala]

Don't ask the folks in TX and CA about football (and basketball) seedings, then, Steve.

Yes -- it happens in football and basketball a lot. Hockey is nowhere near alone on this.

Thus my point that a bit more in the way of financial support from the NCAA for DIII championships would make things fairer.  I wasn't sure about other sports - I kind of suspected that was the case, and knew that there was a lot of teeth being gnashed because of the Pool A slot that went to the ECFC last year.  Norwich was excited by it, but it appears that they had the big in a small pond thrown into the shark tank kind of effect. 

The travel restrictions and directive to minimize flights are thorns to hockey fans (visit us at D3hockey.com) as we try to figure out how the post season will evolve.

[Ralph Turner]

Don't ask the folks in TX and CA about football (and basketball) seedings, then, Steve.

Yes -- it happens in football and basketball a lot. Hockey is nowhere near alone on this.

Thus my point that a bit more in the way of financial support from the NCAA for DIII championships would make things fairer.  I wasn't sure about other sports - I kind of suspected that was the case, and knew that there was a lot of teeth being gnashed because of the Pool A slot that went to the ECFC last year.  Norwich was excited by it, but it appears that they had the big in a small pond thrown into the shark tank kind of effect. 

The travel restrictions and directive to minimize flights are thorns to hockey fans (visit us at D3hockey.com) as we try to figure out how the post season will evolve.

Thanks for your comments.

For all practical purposes, the ECFC slot came about because D-III schools saw a way to offer a competitive football experience with peer/member institutions, and so they added football.

Lots more football opportunities for student-athletes.

I attribute some of the growth in lacrosse to the Pool A structure that offers a bid to a member conference that fulfills the criteria.

[jknezek]

D3 is asking for handouts for all of their tournaments. I highly doubt any of them cover the costs associated with the flights the NCAA does allow. It's always nice to suggest that putting two hands out would get you more money, but really, beggars can't be choosers. The NCAA D1 basketball tournament allows for an awful lot of good things to happen in a lot of areas that it has limited benefit in supporting. While there are lots of ways to make things "fairer" for D3 tournaments with unlimited money, it's real nice just to have the large amounts of money we already receive to make these tournaments happen at all.

Of course, we can always hope the NCAA gets control over D1 football and decides to share some of that wealth as well. I don't see it happening, but one can always hope.