Future of Division III

[Ralph Turner]

if only there was a similar D3 power ranking of academics and football only (seeya NESCAC), I believe the Liberty League would monkey stomp the competition.

Gro, D3 schools are included in the NSCA table.

thanks for the tip, now read the bold print.

Thanks!  LOL   

['gro]

my original comment was just me trying to ease my way up on the soapbox... but I'll just put it out there... I think that RPI has one of the best combinations of academic excellence and football performance in D3... even someone not as biased (for obvious reasons) as myself would have to put them in the top 5-10.

ok I'm done now.

[Sabretooth Tiger]

Probably these NCSA rankings:

http://www.ncsasports.org/Powerrankings/index.htm

This is the first I've heard of them, by the way.

I notice that 6 of the top 8 schools were NESCAC.

Perhaps there is a valid reason you have not heard of them!

I don't even know what sport they were talking about, but that is absurd.

Speaking from my west coast island bias and having reviewed the purported NCAS 2005 dIII rankings that include so cal schools Redlands, LaVerne and Chapman in the rankings but omit Claremont, Pomona and Oxy . . . in a list that purports to rest on athletics and academics . . . the list is a joke.

[sunny]

The rankings are interesting, but I'm not sure how much value they have.  Using the Directors' Cup as a barometer of overall athletic excellence only works for the top tier of schools ranked in it.  After you get further down the Directors' Cup rankings, you can run into schools that excel in one or two sports, but don't do well in others.  I don't think you can say that those schools have better all around athletic departments than a school which might not make the NCAA Tournament in anything one year but competes well in every sport. 

Besides that, I'm not sure if, say, a men's soccer recruit cares that much if a school wins national titles in cross country and swimming on an annual basis if that school usually stinks in soccer.  The "overall athletic department" factors that would more likely influence a recruit would be quality of facilities, staff, etc. 

Only big exception I can think of would be a recruit looking at school which has just introduced or is about to introduce his/her chosen sport.  Then I can see how the success of the school's other athletic programs could be a big deciding factor.

[diehardfan]

Speaking from my west coast island bias and having reviewed the purported NCAS 2005 dIII rankings that include SCIAC members Redlands, LaVerne and Chapman in the rankings but omit Claremont, Pomona and Oxy . . . in a list that purports to rest on athletics and academics . . . the list is a joke.

Uhm, isn't Chapman an independant?

What I've always found interesting about the Director's Cup, is that it honors success in the random sports as much as the bigger sports. This may be a flaw, esp considering that the bigger sports have more teams competing in them... but it doesn't necessarily mean that they're a bad athletics colleges just because we don't care about the sports they're good at. Basketball and football are only intrinsically better in my head.

I think at some point, the very valid point about Liberal Arts Colleges and Universities improperly has a greater effect than it does at the top. At that point, it's just a vaild statement to say, hey, these schools have good all around programs, the order doesn't really matter. When it's to the point that they're supposedly good enough to be on the list, but are so far down they don't really matter, like LaVerne is in the 70s in 2005, I can hardly see how it's accurate any more. It's just too hard to accurately label colleges after a certain point in ANY poll, even a completely statistical one.

Here's a random thought... if a school's academic program is easier, wouldn't it make it more likely that the athletes graduate? That stat doesn't necessarily mean a school is better.... 

[Sabretooth Tiger]

You're right, Chapman is independent, I should have referenced So Cal rather than SCIAC.

[Gray Fox]

SCIAC member Cal Tech is in the  2006 top 50.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I've returned from climbing Mt Whitney, April, you have a beautiful adopted home state.

I guess all the debate here has pretty much run its course, but I thought extra attention needed to be drawn to the wonderful "monkey stomp" reference from Gro, just fantastic.

[diehardfan]

Excellent! I didn't know you were the backpacker / mountaineer sort! Congrats.

I love Sequoia National Park... it's completely beautiful out in that area. I bet it was really different than it was when I was there in April temperature wise though!

I guess all the debate here has pretty much run its course

IMHO, it's never too late to bring up something totally random. I find stuff on the board that's over a month old and I still bring it up if it's the first time I've seen it. Especially during the summer, no one is going to care.

[northb]

test

[Ralph Turner]

The Commissioners Update has a couple of interesting items.

D3 will consider Male Practice Players in Women's sports.  The teams are limited to no more than 1/2 of the number of athletes needed to field a team, for one practice per week, in the traditional segment and use a year of eligibility if they practice beyond the first game.  Please check the pdf file for more details.

[wilburt]

I think some of the NCAA regulations are kind of ridiculous.   

But that's just me...

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I didn't know that was illegal before.  My intramural team used to scrimmage the women's varsity all the time (well at least those of us 6' 3/4" and shorter anyway).


I guess the alma mater should do some self reporting.

[Pat Coleman]

It wasn't illegal before. It was unregulated and perceived to be a problem.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

It wasn't illegal before. It was unregulated and perceived to be a problem.

Good to know.  I'm glad I didn't contribute to any NCAA violations, although that might be something fun to brag about, like the time I was kicked out of Canada.