Future of Division III

[K-Mack]

I always thought it was the NCAC driving this thing.  I'm not hearing too many NESCACers getting riled up about it.

I get the impression that the Centennial folks seem to mention it a lot, but I can't say that for sure.

I know that academic perception appears to be a really important issue to some.

[K-Mack]

It's true.  I think it's more that the big, rich private schools are starting to feel inferior athletically to the state schools.

The small schools know they are inferior and have no real issue with it.

Interesting take.

I think the competitiveness varies from region to region and state to state. Any additional division that breaks up closely-knit conferences, or threatens to, is going to have a tough time passing.

A couple of you hit it on the head earlier. D3 is built on the conference structure. National playoffs are just gravy, and in all honesty, are not a reality for a lot of students who devote a lot of time to being good at sports in D3.

Another thing ... a small school staying competitive in football (roster of 60-100 generally), baseball (roster of what, 25?), basketball (roster of 12-15) and, let's say tennis (roster of what, 6-12?) are different things.

When you are talking about moving your entire athletic program to a new subdivision, do you weigh equally how this affects all sports? We're talking about very different requirements ... and perhaps institutions who value their athletic program in different ways (valuable part of student life, tradition, money-maker, recruiting tool, prestige-measurer, etc.)

I think it was Johnnie_esq who said "there aren't any certainties in any change."

Wise words.

[K-Mack]

Allow me to point out the Men's Basketball Final Four:

Amherst
Wash. U.
Va. Wesleyan
Wooster

Does someone else want to look up the US News & World Report numbers on that?

And if you take it back a weekend and look at the diversity of schools who sent teams to the Sweet 16, it's another example of how success in Division III sports comes in many forms.

[Ralph Turner]

Allow me to point out the Men's Basketball Final Four:

School/ Rank /Category/ Founded/ Endowment

Amherst #2 (of 104)/ Top Lib Arts/ 1821/ $1.154 B
Wash. U. #12T (of 126)/ National Universities/ 1853/ $4.3B
Va. Wesleyan 4th tier/ Liberal Arts/ 1961/ $39M
Wooster  #67 (of 104)/ Top Lib Arts/ 1866/ $271M

Does someone else want to look up the US News & World Report numbers on that?

And if you take it back a weekend and look at the diversity of schools who sent teams to the Sweet 16, it's another example of how success in Division III sports comes in many forms.

In VWC's defense, Wash U's endowment probably spins off $39M per month.   The Marlins won their first National Championship in their 45th year.  It took Amherst nearly 2 centuries.    

Virginia Wesleyan has not even experienced the full philanthropy of their first generation of students.

[David Collinge]

In VWC's defense, Wash U's endowment probably spins off $39M per month.   The Marlins won their first National Championship in their 45th year.  It took Amherst nearly 2 centuries.    

Now just a cotton-pickin' minute.  The clock is still ticking on Amherst; let's not concede the trophy to them just yet. 

[Ralph Turner]

In VWC's defense, Wash U's endowment probably spins off $39M per month.   The Marlins won their first National Championship in their 45th year.  It took Amherst nearly 2 centuries.    

Now just a cotton-pickin' minute.  The clock is still ticking on Amherst; let's not concede the trophy to them just yet. 

My bad!

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Well, it still gives them another decade or so to get in under than two centuries banner.  It's not like he pronounced them victorious this year specifically.

[JeffRookie2]

I'm sorry, how long have they even been holding these championships? Basketball itself is way younger than 200 years. Or did you mean championships in general? Well, we might double our all-time haul this weekend with mens bball and womens hockey.

[Just Bill]

Completely off the topic:

Does anyone else think the headline on this article should have been "Miseri loves new company"

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php?item=967

...or is it just me?

[labart96]

Interesting move by Davidson:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070319/ap_on_re_us/financial_aid_loans

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

This isn't exactly on topic, but that's an awfully small enrollment for a school with such a quality basketball program.

[Ralph Turner]

Interesting move by Davidson:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070319/ap_on_re_us/financial_aid_loans

+1 TGP.  Quite thought provoking!

[labart96]

Interesting move by Davidson:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070319/ap_on_re_us/financial_aid_loans

+1 TGP.  Quite thought provoking!

Thx Ralph -

Any and every fan of D3 should have this stuff on their radar.  Not across the board by any means, but most D3 FB schools at least tend to be private institutions with significant price tags ($30-40K+/yr) whose tuition costs keep going up (making families and financial aid offers work even harder to get and keep their students in school).  The fact at least one institution is taking such a public stance against debt is really something to applaud.  It's hard enough to get your life kick started post graduation, let alone being saddled with $100K in debt b/f you are even 23!!!

TGP's alma mater for instance, is about 45% more expensive to attend now that it was when TGP was a student there - a little more than 10 yrs ago.

Would be curious to see if anyone in academia has studied the growth of institutional grant monies vs. rising tuition costs.  TGP's guess is that there would be some correllation, but grants still lagging behind.  Hopefully moves like Davidson's will catch steam (especially at school's with decent, if not, significant endowments).

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

My alma mater, one of the least expensive private schools in New England will charge 50% more in the 2007-2008 year than I paid for my freshman year in 1999.

That's a quick rise.


Thanks for bringing that to our attention.

[labart96]

Maybe one of these days, TGP will be on a Board so he can see how these costs are divied up.

Having worked as a college administrator early in my career, TGP has seen first hand how competitive it is out there on the front recruiting lines.  Kids seem to be applying to more and more schools (10-12 minimum!), meaning marketing and admissions budgets have had to rise to keep up.

Then you take into consideration wireless requirements for dorms (more servers, more support staff, etc), country club campus conditions required to keep up with the joneses, travel abroad expansion, etc, etc and TGP can see how a 50% rise in a couple of years could happen.