Future of Division III

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I saw an article about that last fall.  It said this was pretty hard to do, especially for public schools in which many of the statistics are public information.  At that time US News was threatening to print information anyway and continue to rank the schools whether they cooperated or not.

[johnnie_esq]

The academic ranking issue is a yearly battle for college presidents.  Every year they threaten and issue press releases discussing how bad rankings are, and every year, when their ranking in US News and World report shows some success, their school's marketing department uses it.  I do know that 25 of the 90+ institutions in Canada have already withheld their information for the Canadian ranking equivalent.  That actually has real power up there.

In re: the D-IV with no championships, I don't think this group will go that route.  Do you really foresee Mount Union being moved over with the OAC and volunteering to give up a yearly chance at the football crown?  The exposure alone their football team has brought the school is worth a mint; they wouldn't throw that away by any means.  Same goes with SJU, Linfield, UWW, PLU, and some other West region schools whose playoff wins have been noted in the major regional presses.  I do see D-IV having a much more limited playoff system-- probably fewer teams in the playoffs and fewer playoff weeks. Ironic, given the football status of these schools.

I really can't put any stock into the working group discussions until the money issue is presented.  Even in the working group document, money issues were very much glossed over.  But as we all know, the NC$$ is run by the dollar, and for this to go anywhere, the money issue will wag the dog.  It doesn't matter how big the endowments of the schools that want secession are: they don't want to be paying to play.  So the real question is, will the NCAA agree to split the already meager D2-D3 pot into a third portion?  And how much of a haircut will the other divisions have to take for that?  Will they willingly go along with that?  I have my doubts.

[Pat Coleman]

Do we know the OAC will go the D-IV route?

[Warren Thompson]

Unless I'm sorely mistaken, it seems that no one knows what will eventually happen anent the possible "reorganization" of NCAA D3 ....

[Ralph Turner]

2006-07 Directors' Cup Final Standings
No.     School  Points
1.      Williams (Mass.)        1,137.50  D4
2.      Middlebury (Vt.)        1,064.50  D4
3.      Cortland (N.Y.)         892.750 
4.      Amherst (Mass.)         887.250  D4
5.      Washington (Mo.)        845.000  D4
6.      College of New Jersey   793.000 
7.      Wisconsin-La Crosse     718.750 D4
8.      Calvin (Mich.)  713.000  D4
9.      Emory (Ga.)     694.500  D4
10.     Johns Hopkins (Md.)     686.250  D4
11.     Gustavus Adolphus (Minn.)       633.500  D4
12.     Wisconsin-Oshkosh       601.000  D4
13.     Wisconsin-Stevens Point         598.000  D4
14.     New York University     578.000  D4
15.     De Pauw (Ind.)  547.000   D4
16.     Tufts (Mass.)   545.250  D4
17.     Luther (Iowa)   526.000  D4
18.     Wisconsin-Eau Claire    525.000  D4
19.     Keene State (N.H)       501.500
20.     Hope (Mich.)    501.00  D4
21.     ITHACA (N.Y.)   495.750
22.     St. John's (Minn.)      467.000   D4
23.     Messiah (Pa.)   466.500
24.     Wartburg (Iowa)         454.250  D4
25.     UC-Santa Cruz   445.500  ? D4?

Assuming the UAA goes to D4.

[Pat Coleman]

Is it believed the NJAC will go to D-IV?

[Ralph Turner]

Is it believed the NJAC will go to D-IV?

My bad!

The voting profile of the NJAC did not match that of the D-IV corps.

[johnnie_esq]

Do we know the OAC will go the D-IV route?

We don't know anything until it actually occurs.  But pp. 153-155 of Supplement B describes what the working group would consider to be the new D-IV, which lists the OAC as a prime candidate for D-IV, with all of its schools but one meeting the moderate criteria. Given the geographic breakdown of the proposed D-IV, the OAC would fit in nicely with the MIAC, IIAC, WIAC, CCIW, MIAA, and Centennial conferences, giving a very easy band of schools centered around the Great Lakes, with pockets of others in Southern California, New England, and Southeast Pennsylvania.

[Pat Coleman]

The listing of the WIAC in that material should be an indication of what happens to assumptions.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Yeah.  Shouldn't that be the big sticking point?  The qualifications they've established for being "elite" also includes the WIAC, which are some of the schools the "elite" wanted to separate from, right?

[Pat Coleman]

the WIAC, which are some of the schools the "elite" wanted to separate from, right?

I think that's a valid assumption.

[johnnie_esq]

The listing of the WIAC in that material should be an indication of what happens to assumptions.

Pat has been a party to more than one of my diatribes regarding my distaste for WIAC schools in the past.   

And here they get lumped in with my beloved MIAC.  It's a conspiracy, I swear! 

Shows what I know...

In fairness, I was as shocked as anyone when they unanimously voted to do away with redshirts, since most of the WIAC had benefited from them in the past.  However, I think many WIAC fans may point out a disconnect between the athletic departments at their schools and the chancellors at their campuses.  The Chancellors do want their institutions to be categorized as good academic schools, whereas the athletic departments push in a slightly different direction.  In the NCAA, the Presidents/Chancellors hold the votes, while the athletic directors do the work; hence the disconnect is allowed. 

Makes for an interesting irony-- it would be interesting to see UWW take on some of the NESCAC members in football...

[Pat Coleman]

I think the WIAC wanted to show they could contribute to Division III reforms and be good citizens in this regard.

I'd sure like to give reform-minded schools more time to find common ground with other members before we start carving Division III up.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I'm not sure at this point that the elite schools are going to get what they want without breaking away from the NCAA entirely.  They want to decide who qualifies as elite and if they remain in the NCAA all schools will have the ability to meet whatever requirements are set.

[Pat Coleman]

Whoever goes to the convention holds the votes, Esq. If a CEO decides to attend, that's fine, but mostly ADs vote.