FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference

[OldPhart]

So I see Thiel drops out of the top 25 after posting a win over Geneva who was ranked #20 in D2 NAIA.......interesting.

UW-LAX had to move into the top 25 after defeating D1-AA SD State.  Somebody had to make way for them.  Both W&J & Concordia-Moorhead conveniently lost to make room for UW-LAX as well as one other.  Trinity's 41-0 destruction of East Texas Baptist who had a winning 2005 season was enough to grant the second open spot to Trinity.

Apparently, Thiel's 7-0 thriller against Geneva didn't compare with Whitworth's brilliant performance of sitting on their hands this past weekend    and so Whitworth has the 25 spot instead of Thiel.  Seriously though, Whitworth is a respectable program.  There is no dishonor in being lumped into the same general category as a Whitworth.  However, there is a lot of "noise" in these early polls and there aren't enough data points games for voters to have formed a clear picture.  Besides - I don't think certain voters are very much impressed with the PAC.   Regardless, if Thiel continues winning the polls will take care of themselves.

Thiel's next foe Alfred is not to be taken lightly - that ECAC hammering of Maine Maritime (63-20!) in last year's postseason appeared to be a not so subtle message to the NCAA that they might have bungled the last spot on the 2005 dance card.  Thiel has to win on Saturday before I worry about rankings and whether or not they have been "dissed."

[PittTBCW]

Good Point Old!!!

I find it hard to believe that Thiel would drop out after beating a Top NAIA team but its early so we will see what happens toward the end of the season. I think by the end of the season you will see both W&J and Thiel both in the Top 25 or maybe TMC. But I have to agree that most of the nation is not sold on the PAC yet.

Good Luck to all the PAC teams and I think the Tomcats matchup this week should be a good one as Alfred is going to be a worthy opp. and will be looking to knock off the cats!

[PittTBCW]

How about the new Pittsburgh Mayor was part of the PAC.

He was the kicker for W&J I believe up to year 2001 or 2002.

Congrats to Luke!

[AUPepBand]

Thiel's next foe Alfred is not to be taken lightly - that ECAC hammering of Maine Maritime (63-20!) in last year's postseason appeared to be a not so subtle message to the NCAA that they might have bungled the last spot on the 2005 dance card.  Thiel has to win on Saturday before I worry about rankings and whether or not they have been "dissed."

Alfred, indeed, went full throttle against Maine Maritime, which, I should point out, was without the services of its star running back. It was 56-6 midway through the 3rd when the starters were pulled.

You're right about the NCAA bungling the 2005 dance card. "Regional Rankings" week before finale had Fisher ahead of AU, which was ahead of Wilkes. AU beats Fisher and Wilkes beats an unranked opponent and the Colonels vault over the Saxons? NCAA proved to me that rankings--even theirs--mean nothing.

On Saxon Warriors....o'er every adversity!

[ThielFan]

So I see Thiel drops out of the top 25 after posting a win over Geneva who was ranked #20 in D2 NAIA.......interesting.

UW-LAX had to move into the top 25 after defeating D1-AA SD State.  Somebody had to make way for them.  Both W&J & Concordia-Moorhead conveniently lost to make room for UW-LAX as well as one other.  Trinity's 41-0 destruction of East Texas Baptist who had a winning 2005 season was enough to grant the second open spot to Trinity.

Apparently, Thiel's 7-0 thriller against Geneva didn't compare with Whitworth's brilliant performance of sitting on their hands this past weekend    and so Whitworth has the 25 spot instead of Thiel.  Seriously though, Whitworth is a respectable program.  There is no dishonor in being lumped into the same general category as a Whitworth.

I noticed that Thiel dropped out of the Top 25 as well.  I'm not really surprised that they did so.  While they did beat a top NAIA team, this is a Division III poll, and so those games don't count so much.  There were other teams that were impressive this past weekend and perhaps deserved to be in the Top 25 more than Thiel does.

That being said, I am completely mystified by an idle Whitworth program moving ahead of the Tomcats.  They may very well be a respectable program, but if they are getting in on the basis of reputation, why were they not in the Top 25 in the preseason poll?  It's hard for me to make a case for any idle team moving ahead of a winner.  I chalk it up to the fact that the Top 25 is a composite of many voters.  Some who voted for Thiel in the preseason may have been unimpressed by the 7-0 win and did not vote for them after Week 1, while still voting for Whitworth.  Still strange to see.

[ThielFan]

ThielFan:

At Thorn Field, in addition to the Wing-T Festival (will the tailgaters be serving up wings?), you'll see a great marching band, to boot.

LOL about the wings tailgating!  Which band are you referring to?  I saw the Kiltie Band down at CMU last year and I was quite impressed.  They are quite proficient as well as having plenty of spirit for their team.  Grove City traditionally has had a strong marching band as well.

[AUPepBand]

I had considered making the trip to Alfred, but I think that I will be going to the Carnegie Mellon @ Grove City game instead.  I'm looking forward to seeing those two Wing-T offenses go at it and I'm also interested in seeing the improvements that GCC has made to Thorn Field.

I don't really recall any "dog fights" between Alfred and Thiel.  I remember being a freshman in '96 and watching the Saxons whip us.

It's funny you should mention the '96 game. Believe it or not, I just watched a tape of that game last week. Score was 20-13 AU late in the third quarter. Thiel completed a long pass to the AU 20 and the Tomcat receiver was knocked out of bounds. There had to have been some words or something and the Tomcats were flagged for unsportsmanlike.... putting them back on the AU 35. Thiel fumbled the very next play. AU then put together a TD drive to make it 27-13 and final score was 34-13.

That one flag and subsequent fumble seemed to take the fight out of the Tomcats or it may have ended up a Thiel win. Final score was AU 34, Thiel 13. Thiel's record that year was dismal at best--but certainly not indicative of their effort. I knew then that it was only a matter of time that Thiel would turn it around.

Looking forward to a good game at Merrill Field Saturday.

[PittTBCW]

AU,

I think your right. I wish I could be in NY for the game.

[Cleveland Cartel]

Theil Fan, Old PHart, Pitt,


I am boggled by the dropping of Thiel and actually not impressed with the rankings.  Also a point that can not be forgotten in the 7-0 thriller was the fact that Hurrican Ernesto soaked the field all night the day before and also for the most the game.  So the conditions where slipperly, wet, muddy, and it is also on the Report from the game notes in the PAC website.  What can you expect with poor field conditions?  Did d3football expect Thiel to have more offense and win bigger?  I am confused also. 
Goodluck Tomcats against a tough Alfred team!!!!

[Pat Coleman]

Guess you didn't look at who passed Thiel. I think those teams had a better week.

Rain fell in lots of places.

[Cleveland Cartel]

Pat,

[

Guess you didn't look at who passed Thiel. I think those teams had a better week.Rain fell in lots of places.

But lets take a look at Thiel's week one opponent vs the two teams who are currently ahead of Thiel.
Thiel: 1-0
Beat Geneva 7-0

Geneva was ranked 20th in the NAIA Div II top 25 and Geneva has been invited to the post-season in 9 of the last 11 seasons).

1994 -  Ranked in Top 20 - NAIA
1995 -  Ranked in Top 15 - NAIA National Championship Series
1996 -  Ranked in Top 10 - NAIA National Championship Series
1997 - Ranked in Top 5 - NAIA National Championship Series
Ranked #1 - National Christian College Athletic Association
1998 - Ranked #1 - NAIA
NCCAA Victory Bowl Champions
1999 - Ranked in Top 15 - NAIA
Ranked #1 - National Christian College Athletic Association
NCCAA Victory Bowl Champions
2000 -  Ranked in Top 10 - NAIA
Declined Victory Bowl Bid 
2001 -  Ranked in Top 25 - NAIA
2002 -  Ranked in Top 25 - NAIA
NCCAA Victory Bowl Champions
2003 -  Ranked in Top 20 - NAIA
NCCAA Victory Bowl Champions
2004 -  Ranked in Top 25 - NAIA
2005 -  Ranked in Top 15 - NAIA National Championship Series
Ranked #1 - National Christian College Athletic Association



#25 Whitworth: 0-0
They did not play last week at all hence they did not have an opportunity to gain or lose any ground in their position they were in last week.  Thiel with the victory had a better week, but dropped below Whitworth who was Idle.

#24 Trinity (Texas): 1-0
Beat East Texas Baptist 41-0.  Their record for the last 5 years is as follows.
Past records2000: (2-8, 1-8 ASC)
2001: (5-5, 4-5 ASC)
2002: (6-4, 6-3 ASC)
2003: (9-3, 8-1 ASC)
2004: (4-6, 4-5 ASC)
2005: (6-4, 6-3 ASC)
2006: (0-1, 0-0 ASC)
Not very impressive.

[Pat Coleman]

I'm not sure why 1994-2004 is at all relevant, CC. Give me a break.

Plus being ranked in the NAIA is not as impressive as being ranked in Division III. A Top 25 in the NAIA is out of 92 football teams. The Top 25 in Division III is out of 230 or so eligible teams.

Being ranked 21st of 92 teams is like being ranked 53rd out of 230 teams. Someone ranked 53rd in our poll might not even get a vote most weeks!

[Pat Coleman]

By the way, you list six years for ETBU, and those are the only six years of the ETBU football program's existence. Don't suppose those first couple years might be a bit misleading, right?

[Cleveland Cartel]

Pat,

Those are solid facts that Geneva has not been a slouch in football over the last 12 years. 

ETBU being a new program means very little in this discussion maybe adding to the flavor that a Trinity victory over ETBU isn't impressive.

What is your explanation on Whitworth?  They did not play last weekend being Idle what momentum did they have to put them in the 25th spot? 

The Forum understand Thiel being dropped for a victory over a team the voters thought was not a true test.  The forum also understands that a victory would put a Trinity or LA Crosse ahead of Thiel, but not Whitworth. 

What is the reasoning?  The forum would like to know how does a Thiel victory put them behind an idle Whitworth?

[Pat Coleman]

That Thiel should have beaten Geneva (remember, equivalent of 53rd in a 230-team group) by more.

Plus, your conference rival getting skunked at home doesn't reflect very well on the PAC, does it?

Why Trinity and Whitworth? Those were the teams right behind Thiel in the preseason poll. And RIGHT behind Thiel -- by a total of eight points, less than one-third a spot for each voter!

If you only look at a small slice of the poll and don't bother to do the math then you are never going to be able to understand it.