FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference

[BDTartan]

Repeat what you have to, but the Tartans may "want" you in the first round.  I don't care either way.  It's just a matter of going out and doing what you're taught to do.  If one team is better than the other than so be it.  Let em' settle it on the field.  I am sure your assessment would have held true for the USC Trojans yesterday, but gee, they got knocked off by a team who isn't as good as them.  Any given Saturday.

[Cleveland Cartel]

BDTartan,

I understand your analogy of playing the game on paper as opposed to on the field.  ALA USC...

But lets also get one thing straight...

To draw any comparison from D3 to the D1 level and the PAC 10 overall wealth of talent is unsubstantial.  Also the Trojans had almost lost their last 3 games and snuck out wins by a margin of less than 7 ppg.  THey were due for a loss and making fundamental mistakes.

The Tartans may hope to play WJ in the first round as opposed to MUC or Capital, but looking back at the strength of schedule once again 12-29 for a winning percentage of .413.  You will make the playoffs regardless if you lose one out of the next two games, and if your also fortenate enough in your minds to play the Prez at Cameron you will not be able to hang with the Prez. 

In Fact, at 500 the Tomcats, trying to find their identity will give you a game at Alumni Stadium. 

This weekend you squeeked by Washington (10-7) in OT  who is now 5-4, and their ovreall conference schedule winning and losing percentage is 32-34 (not including CMU).

They were slaughtered by Wheaton (8-1) and overwhelmed by North Central (6-2).

Lastly,
Looking at the teams in the UAA the records are horrendous, and CMU has done a terrific job in going from being picked third in the conference to owning sole possesion of first place.  But you have not played anyone yet and you have been protected by a weak schedule.  You went through some adversity this weekend in Overtime, but when you start playing teams who are bigger, faster, and stronger than you... WJ MUC Capital, Wesley, Bridgewater, Saslibury, CNU, and Mary Hardin-Baylor CMU will be sent home first week of the playoffs.

Enjoy it now, but if you want to come into this room spouting about old cliches about "thats why the games are played on paper"  I can't wait until CMU starts  playing some playoff caliber teams, and than hear what you have to say about the losses you will have.

[BDTartan]

Point taken, but I was merely saying that CMU would feel much better about their chances play your Presidents than playing a top 10 team.  The USC game was something I threw in to make a point that on any given day a weaker team can rise above a stronger team.  I know that the Tartans do not play a strong schedule, but they played the same schedule last year minus Westminster replacing John Hopkins and they went 5-5.  They are a much better team this year.  I know it was just a scrimmage and they probably didn't keep score, but the Tartans did scrimmage Waynesburg at the beginning of the season and from what I was told, they would have handled Waynesburg as easily as W&J did.  How well is your Presidents' rush defense??  If CMU can control the ball and score effectively with their grind it out running game then I would say they stand a chance of NOT getting rolled over by W&J.

[Cleveland Cartel]

Tartan,

I must have done a solid job in having you think the Prez are my team. 

I am a Thiel Football Alumn and have always despised the Prez, but you can gurantee I respect the Prez and look forward to them respresenting the PAC well in the Playoffs. 

How well is the Rush defense at WJ?  You will have to ask Wes Mantooth or Bob Gregg and they could give you the scoop.  Now if you wanted to know about Thiel's rush defense I could actually offer an opinon and some facts there. 

From the conversations here and watching the Prez battle the Tomcats in Greenville.  The Prez have size and an athletic front four that can put pressure on a QB but also limit the rushing yards in a game.  From what Mantooth has stated it seems as if the Pass has been their achillies heel all year, and Thiel was able to exploit the Prez through the Air only. 

Mantooth any predictions or information regarding the front four your help would be appreciated...
That's why I did say the Tomcats will give CMU a game in Greenville.  WJ is a well respected foe and their coaching staff and players are well rounded solid individuals.

[BDTartan]

My bad for assuming you were a Prez fan.  I wasn't knocking any team.  In fact I just wanted to make it clear that CMU actually has some talent.  They didn't hit their 280 yd. avg on the ground against WUStL, but they did get 130 when WUStL was only giving up about 40.  I was also trying to say that the Tartans are happy to be in this position and would probably like to make the most out of it, so if that means crossing their fingers for a first round game against W&J then that's what they'll do.  I don't know anymore, I wasn't trying to start an argument, I was just tried of people scoffing at what the Tartans have done.  Believe me, I want them to play a tougher schedule because not having enough teams in the UAA and playing a weak schedule pretty much sets them up to have to go 10-0 to make the post-season.

By the way, I expect the CMU/Thiel game to be no less exciting than last years wild overtime game.

I am also a bit bored and the only person I have to talk to on the UAA board is cwru70.

[Cleveland Cartel]

Tartan,

Bordem has set in for you i am sure, but CMU should truly consider moving to the PAC.  Ideal location for you to continue to recruit strong and also with all the memebers of the PAC for traveling.  It makes sense and I hope CMU will take a strong look at the possiblity with the PAC adding a few more teams to the picture in football next year. 

You have talent over there no doubt, and I will also be looking forward to the Matchup with the Tomcats in Greenville.  The strength of schedule hurts the Tartans immensly and if you look in the South Region Fan poll you can talk up the Tartans some more there also, but some of the voters from the Fan Poll there arent thrilled with the level of competition either.  Good Points and well taken.

[Ron Boerger]

Tartan,

Bordem has set in for you i am sure, but CMU should truly consider moving to the PAC.  Ideal location for you to continue to recruit strong and also with all the memebers of the PAC for traveling.  It makes sense and I hope CMU will take a strong look at the possiblity with the PAC adding a few more teams to the picture in football next year. 

When were Carnegie or Mellon president?   

Seriously, the UAA is an association of serious research institutions that also happen to offer Division III athletics.  I don't see CMU or any of the other UAA members leaving the conference any time soon. 

[BDTartan]

I doubt any of the four teams will leave anytime soon either. 

I believe CMU was in the PAC for a while as it states in their programs that they were PAC Co-Champs in 1989.

Oh, I am sure people will bash CMU's weak schedule, but like I said, I am happy as a Tartan fan to be conference champs, undefeated, and competing for a playoff spot.

[BDTartan]

Another interesting note, CMU does play 3 or 4 PAC teams, so your suggestion isn't a bad one.

[Bob.Gregg]

CMU was in the Presidents Athletic Conference for quite some time.

They left the conferernce around 1989, stating that "They were heading in a different direction."  The Tartans haven't sniffed the playoffs since. 

And for several years, when the NCAA tournament was announced on a conference call, several CMU people used to get on and whine (very unbecoming) about it.  Finally, the chair of the Division III Football Committee told the CMU complainers that all they had to do to get in was beat W&J.  The Tartan reps haven't been on the conference call since.

I'm not a W&J alum, though I do root for the Presidents.  What those of us around the program find interesting is CMU's ability to schedule Grove City, Thiel and Bethany every year in football, and their willingness to play the Presidents in basketball but will not play the Red & Black in football.

Great rivalry, great crowds, great atmosphere.  Play the game.

[BDTartan]

I don't know about all that.  This is only my second year following the Tartans as I have a brother playing for them.  i do feel like W&J is their best opportunity for a W in the playoffs considering their other likely opponents.  I am hoping that they schedule a little tougher opponent for their open date next year and the NCAC scheduling agreement helps all UAA teams out.

[Bob.Gregg]

I'm in an interesting position, being close to the W&J program and having a genius brother who is a CMU alum.  We've had many a heated discussion regarding the Tartans' take-their-ball-and-go-home act in football.

He and I would love a W&J/CMU matchup, and we could only hope it would be as exciting as the 1987 PAC title-deciding contest between the two was.

Let's hope the Tartans and Presidents finish their business and get together down the road soon.

[AC24#724]

WJ/Waynebsurg Recap:
Surprizingly not many items about other items that contributed to outcome:
but as expected WJ fans only see things their way.
1. Shields mugged 5,10, 15 yards down field by corner back when ball was picked near goal line in first quarter..., momentum play ...ref stared an watched and of course the no call like every Jacket fan thought would take place there that day was just the beginning.
2. 25 second clock goes on blink and out of no-where comes a 25 second delay call against Jackets when they had possession and on drive but move em back they go, no mo-mo today boys
3. Czerwien, Jackets DE was horsecallered and held so bad during game he had strangle marks on his neck after game.....it was so bad...that they had to move him to linebacker most of 3rd quarter and alot in 4th to keep him from being strangled to death so he could make plays. He hasn't been stopped in 3 years but miraculously he got held out today big time
4. WJ OL Chop blocks illegal that also was darn near the whole game, but do you think any would be called?....a injured person could run for 100+ yards if you have that detail going on. Oh, by the way Mendel 35 rushes on 154 yards maps out to be 4.4 average, Jackets had 4.0 average but Juggernaut Shepas, has the leading Rusher, Scorer and TD maker in school history of team on sidelines most of 4th quarter.......their isn't one Jacket fan that can ever understand that wonderful coaching decision but Abels is probably used to it by now... had to deal with that all 4 years there but amazinly put  up the number's he has I guess does say something? BUT with 8-9 guys in box did one outside sweep pitch get called whole game??
More nice play calling BUT WJ D did play well this day.
5. Two late hits when Wideout of Jackets caught ball and were on sideline and also one foot out of bounds did late hit call be made? Did expect to see flag Nope?
6. Botched puntpass for TD called back on Jackets, which does have some likely-hood of guy being downfield BUT wonder if that was a WJ play...Yepper TD it would be.
7. Films should probably be sent to NCAA.PAC President for review...cause line play -Strangling/Chop Blocks was not called and you can get away with alot when you do that kinda of  play...but if your playing down their you get away with it especially........................when
8) Alumni dropp a big wad in the bucket two weeks ago only to have it picked up this past Saturday by crew.
Interesting poster's, think about it!! I would of almost wished my jet plane was delayed 2 more hours so I wouldn't of had to see this all take place and just hear about it from all Jacket fans but not was the case.
9) If their is any post season play for WJ unless toe gets stubbed they sure hope it will first home game cause when they play elsewhere the dominant calls will be not there to rely on. 
AC

[Bob.Gregg]

Get your film, AC.  And watch the fourth play of the game, approximately 7 yards beyond the line of scrimmage, right around the home side hash marks.

Then, if you'd like to come back and talk about chop blocks, bring it on!

Otherwise, shut up!

[Wes Mantooth]

I can also remember a ball hitting a Waynesburg player on a punt return that was recovered by W&J that would have put the game away but the refs huddled and gave the ball to Waynesburg. AC i am disappointed as your comments sound like sore loser comments.  Mendel is the best back in the conference bar none. I can see if the game was 7-6 and those calls cost you the game. Holding and pass interference goes both ways in a game. But i am sure holding or pass interference had nothing to do with your Qb throwing INT to DT's for TD's when they were still in the game. Also for a bit of class, Waynesburg was going to attempt to stomp on the midfield logo but this was stopped by W&J and the refs in the pregame. It all goes back to Excuses are like(you fill it in) everyone has one.