FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference

[South Willy]

SaintsFAN...Congrats on a big win.

[SaintsFAN]

Thanks, South Willy... we got a big game in two weeks... we need to win the Bridge Bowl back from Mount St. Joe, then we can think playoffs. 

Two thoughts from today... the game next week against Geneva will be tough...because of the travel involved and the fact the kids were on such an emotional high today.  I was very exciting, but I cringed when our PA announcer said "Congrats on a great season."  Um...hello?  We have two regular season games, including a home game in the Bridge Bowl, not to mention the playoffs..  Jesus

The other is the refs.  I agree with whoever said it earlier...  The PAC needs to look at these officials they have.  Its only sour grapes if you lose the game, and we didn't lose... but those guys today (I wanted to name names, but chose not to) were awful. 


To the refs that "worked" today: 

It was lopsided... 106 yds in penalties for Thomas More.  12 penalties to 6 today...and the crowd saw it.  W&J was tough enough to stop without them getting 4 first downs by penalty.  Enough is enough... Your partisanship belongs in the political scene.

[South Willy]

SaintsFAN... Geneva can't stop the run so TMC should have 300+ runing yds. Bethany's defense took the second qtr off and let them just roll down the field for 21 points in 10 minutes. Rest of the game was even.

The refs turned BC TD into a bogus INT which is what seemed to turn the second qtr around. BC would have been up 23-10 with the proper call.

My son picked up a knee injury early in the 3rd qtr on a punt return and was done for the day.. Wasn't even hit so just one of those things. Possible MRI today.

[Bob.Gregg]

...The other is the refs.  I agree with whoever said it earlier...  The PAC needs to look at these officials they have.  Its only sour grapes if you lose the game, and we didn't lose... but those guys today were awful. 


To the refs that "worked" today: 

It was lopsided... 106 yds in penalties for Thomas More.  12 penalties to 6 today...and the crowd saw it.  W&J was tough enough to stop without them getting 4 first downs by penalty.  Enough is enough... Your partisanship belongs in the political scene.

SaintsFan, you're wrong.

1st half--
W&J k/o out of bounds (obviously).
TMC off-side (clearly). 
TMC off-side (clearly again).
W&J ill. proceedure (moved prior to snap).
TMC pass interference (went through receiver to get ball).
TMC ill. proceedure (moved prior to snap).
W&J Off. holding on run.
TMC  Personal Foul on punt coverage (obvious post-whistle late hit).

2nd half--
TMC pass interference (right hand holding around waist with left hand knocking down pass).
TMC Personal Foul on touchdown run (another obvious post-whisle late hit).
W&J  Illegal proceedure (moved prior to snap).
TMC  Roughing the passer (hit Swallow 2 seconds after he passed ball).
W&J  off holding on run.
TMC  Off holding on run.
W&J  Personal Foul--late hit at boundary.
TMC  pass interference (I'll agree with this one being shaky, though I think there was contact with the ball in the air).
W&J  Ill. proceedure (movement prior to snap after timeout).
TMC off side (clearly).  And they were off side on the previous play too and it wasn't called.

The PAC referees called the game that was played, which is EXACTLY what you should want.

The one interference call that I question would have been a first down with a catch that may have been negated by the contact.  The Saints should have had at least one more off-side penalty.  Deduct one first down by penalty, add one first down by penalty.

Your "partianship" comment is off-base, as is your evaluation of the officiating.

Congrats on the win, the PAC title and the AQ berth to the NCAA's.  But don't taint it by mis-questioning the officiating.  The Saints won the game Saturday, in spite of their own mistakes of taking three personal fouls (two of them on dead ball situations) and nearly 10 other penalties.  That aspect of the Saints game needs to be cleaned up or the TMC stay in the playoffs won't be any longer than W&J's was last year.

[the_burghboy]

I know it's not a popular position, and I'm sure I'll take abuse for it, but there should be questions about the program at W&J.

Sure, the stats look good in wins and losses, but with the playoff appearances, and results  in those appearances, the program continues to lose it's reputation in the region.  I'm not sure about it's national reputation, but everytime I see/watch the Presidents, all I can think of is Walt Harris if he coached Division III.

Of course, there won't be any major moves on this level of play, they are competitive, and can add to their 'rep' in Division III.   It's not a priority at a school like W&J now, and the administration is quite different in the Mitchell and Burnett years.

That said, they look to be regressing as a program to me.

[SaintsFAN]

Bob,

I'm not complaining so much about the ones that WERE called... its some of the ones that WEREN'T called.  Especially on the W&J 20 play marches down the field.   Swallow was very evasive... he also had help as some of our guys were being tackled by W&J olineman.   No matter though... and you're right...some of the Thomas More excitement needs tempered... but I think now that this young team has played a big time game... they'll be ok in the playoffs.  Cure that and the 3rd down woes and I think the offense will be a tough match for a couple teams. 

I do agree with your saying the pass interference in 2nd half on TMC was tick-tack.  I'm going to say the personal foul on W&J when they hit Zerhusen was also shaky.

[Bob.Gregg]

If not-called holding penalties are all you have for your "partisanship" comment, SaintsFan, give it a rest.

As has been said for years, IF a referee or umpire WANTED to, holding could be called on nearly every play.

Both sides did it.  And it was called equally (or not called if you want to look at it that way).

Good luck to the Saints and here's hoping 9-1 gets the Presidents in.

[SaintsFAN]

I think my "partisanship" comment has mislead you.... I'm not talking about the refs favoring the Presidents.  I'm talking about the refs needing more accountability.  Its been said by another poster below also. 


BTW --I do think 9-1 gets the Presidents in. 

[South Willy]

No matter who you like, the officating in the PAC is horrible but I can't see anyone doing anything about it. Every week I've attended the bad, missed or wrong calls are thoughout the game. It occurs against both teams and only really affects the outcome if you catch one late in the 4th qtr. There is much more complaining about the calls in D3 than in D1 or even high school football down here. Of course, in D1 your can review & fix some of them.

Saturday, BC tight end goes up for a ball which goes off his finger tips. As he comes down upright and is trying to get his balance the safety comes in helmut down and hits him helmet to helmet. Tight end stays down and is taken off the field with a concussion, out for 1-2 weeks. In todays NFL, the hit draws a $25,000 fine minimum...In D3 it gets no call from an official 10 feet from the play. It's hard to figure how these refs ever made it to college ball.

My trips to BC are probably done this season with my son doing out Saturday with a torn meniscus. Just a bad break on a punt return, wasn't even hit. I'll keep an eye on the Saints & Presidents in the D3 playoffs.

[SaintsFAN]

Sorry to hear about your son, SW.  Hope the knee gets better.

I've only seen this much complaining about a whole conference's officials from the NCAC... and it was mostly Wabash guys leading the assault. 

I don't know about talk about W&J's State of the Program...but I do have a question.

Bobby Swallow.... best QB ever at W&J?   i mean, his career numbers are off the charts.  He has 92 career TDs and something like 17 INTs..  His receivers on this past Saturday were making plays for him... but he put quite a few balls where only his receivers could catch them.  He was under pressure all afternoon... and stepped up. 

[the_burghboy]

Bobby Swallow.... best QB ever at W&J?   i mean, his career numbers are off the charts.  He has 92 career TDs and something like 17 INTs..  His receivers on this past Saturday were making plays for him... but he put quite a few balls where only his receivers could catch them.  He was under pressure all afternoon... and stepped up. 

I would defer to Mr. Gregg, who would have a better answer since he has seen more games through a number of years.  I have only seen quarterbacks at W&J since probably the mid 80's.

The offensive system has changed through the years, so statistics are hard to use as a measure in my opinion.  W&J was more of a run heavy team in the late 80's and early 90's, but the lack of balance hurt them in the playoffs during the years I played (again, my opinion).   There were some quarterbacks during that time that were good ones and I think would have flourished in the system they have now.

Swallow definitely would be in the argument, and though I don't know him or played with him, I thought Jason Baer was one I would pick over any of them I watched since I was going to W&J games as a high school kid.   Just his smarts and grit stood out to me, and seemed like he had a level that could infect the team in a positive way.

[Bob.Gregg]

It'll be a while before I can put a comprehensive piece together on this topic.  But the overwhelming differences of offensive philosophy between the Pat Aigner/Bob Strope/Jason Baer days and those under Coach Mike make it nearly impossible to name a "best quarterback ever."

Certainly, Bobby Swallow has to be in the top five all time.

[Bob.Gregg]

Damn, I didn't even post yesterday and got smited, again!

Anyway, I think W&J's in need of serious outside help to be invited to the dance.

9-1 will get them on the board for discussion, though probably not on the first round.  The Presidents likely need there to be only 3-4 other 1-loss-in-region teams on the board at the start.  If that happens, they'll get a "C" bid.

If there are more than that, all bets are off.

Of course, not able to win the PAC title themselves, Bethany and Waynesburg would like nothing more than to help W&J miss the playoffs.  So, for the Red & Black, there is much work to be done.

[SaintsFAN]

I noticed the smiting also.... we have an unknown "sniper" among us, it appears.

I remember hearing that W&J used to be a run-based offensive team in the early 1990s... but then again, it should be common sense because the Spread only came into vogue in the late 90s.

I think Bethany, minus SouthWilly's son at WR.... will be no problem for the Presidents.  W&J is better at defending the pass than the run + Collier is out as I said before.  The wildcard that I see here is Waynesburg... its a bitter rivalry game and they have the ability (not that they've shown it consistently this year) to run the ball effectively, even without Heller at RB.

I hope W&J wins out and is able to have the chips fall into place for them..  I'm hoping for TWO teams with strong showings in the Playoffs to earn the PAC some respect.

Bob, I'm sending you a message ..

[Bob.Gregg]

W&J is better at defending the pass than the run

SaintsFAN, that's not accurate.

Other than breakaway speed working behind a very powerful line, W&J is great against the run.  Pass D has been an issue for several years.

Having to defend against similar threats is the undoing of the Administration.