FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference

[JAdaPrince]

I wish Thomas More all the best in the playoffs ... The thing I don't understand is how a loss to a non-NCAA Division III school (Geneva isn't a full member yet) hurts their seed. If regional competition is the first criteria, then the Saints' regional record was the same before and after the Geneva game ... and they enter the playoffs at 8-1 in region.

[SaintsFAN]

jada,

It doesn't matter... theoretically it shouldn't have hurt the Saints because they are still in transition... but still, a loss is a loss.  I think it taught this young team a lesson.. and hopefully this helps us this weekend in Naperville. 

Bottom line.. the playoffs are about playing teams that earned postseason status.  I like that we're playing the #2 in the country on Saturday.

[South Willy]

SaintsFAN.. Been busy and just hopped on line to see the brackets. Thought TMC deserved better than an #8 seed, especially if W & J gets a #5. My son has a couple of high school teammates on North Central and they look real strong this year.

Matt's surgery went well this morning so it's 2 months in a brace and then rehab. No sports till next fall.

Good luck at North Central!

[New Tradition]

I can't believe how quiet you guys are in here with this being a playoff week!  So what can we expect from Thomas More?  What kind of front do they run defensively?  What are their strengths?  Are they predominantly a passing or running team?  What offensive set do they prefer?  Who are their stud players?

[SaintsFAN]

New Tradition,

There's not alot of actual Thomas More fans on post patterns.  I think there's maybe one or two others... but pretty much I'm it.  I don't like to talk chit on here as others do. 

I know that Thomas More greatly respects the season NCC had... and knows they aren't a slouch.  They've been in the playoffs recently.  Its going to be a tough game for the Saints... but I'll say this.  TMC is very fast offensively.  Now thats not to say NCC hasn't seen the speed TMC will bring, but when opponents talk about them thats what comes up.  Coach Thorne also mentioned TMC was faster than they originally thought.  They have an agile offensive line with some size.  The offense was created to mimic what West Virginia has been running the past few years with Pat White.  RB's to keep an eye on are Cordario Collier, Anthony Knott and Kendall Owens.  They get the ball an equal amount and I'm not sure that teams can key on one guy back there.  When Thomas More is playing well on offense, they are spreading the ball around (ala WVU) with these speedsters.  I'm not a fan of saying that a team "hasn't seen an offense" but I think this attack isn't easy to replicate.  You'll know they're playing well if they are breaking off 20 and 30 yard runs to change field position.  QB, Trevor Stellman is a very good triggerman.  He has good speed and a very nice touch on the ball. 

Defensively the Saints lineup in a 4 DL, 4 LB set (its looks more like the 4-3-5 that is popular at the moment)... the 2 outside LB are very fast and have the size of safeties... the 2 MLB are typical size 6'2 240 and 6' 230 and flow very well to the ball.  The defensive line is very quick, Tyler Owens is 200 lbs on the defensive line but was all-PAC...  they have good size and motors on the rest of the defensive line. 

Should be a great game... I think it comes down to speed vs power.  From what I've heard NCC is very good at running the ball and play action.  The QB has made teams pay for stacking the line... I look for a closer game than what some of the people have been saying...  No excuses, this Thomas More team is still a young one in Coach Hilvert's 2nd season...  some of the freshman contributions have made this run possible (Knott and Owens along with soph transfers Justin Smith at DE and Martez Williams at CB). 

Win or lose, this will be a great experience for the Saints. 

[Bob.Gregg]

So what can we expect from Thomas More?  What kind of front do they run defensively?  What are their strengths?  Are they predominantly a passing or running team?  What offensive set do they prefer?  Who are their stud players?

Sounds like a fishing expedition to me....


But, for the record, I think it comes down to Thomas More's ability to defend the run.

If the Saints do it like they did against W&J, they can win.
If it looks like the defense against Geneva, warmup the busses.  It's over, quickly.

[SaintsFAN]

Interesting take from Keith on this week's ATN:

Home team least deserving of a home game
Washington & Jefferson. The Presidents were on the bubble when Week 11 began and probably wouldn't have gotten in if a couple of teams handled business. I don't have any problem with W&J making the field, but when the team that beat you to win the conference (Thomas More) goes on the road, as do teams like Hardin-Simmons and Wesley, and one of the last teams in plays at home, that isn't right.

[SaintsFAN]

So what can we expect from Thomas More?  What kind of front do they run defensively?  What are their strengths?  Are they predominantly a passing or running team?  What offensive set do they prefer?  Who are their stud players?

Sounds like a fishing expedition to me....


But, for the record, I think it comes down to Thomas More's ability to defend the run.

If the Saints do it like they did against W&J, they can win.
If it looks like the defense against Geneva, warmup the busses.  It's over, quickly.

Agreed, Bob... on everything. 

[ncc58]

Defensively the Saints lineup in a 4 DL, 4 LB set (its looks more like the 4-3-5 that is popular at the moment)... the 2 outside LB are very fast and have the size of safeties... the 2 MLB are typical size 6'2 240 and 6' 230 and flow very well to the ball.  The defensive line is very quick, Tyler Owens is 200 lbs on the defensive line but was all-PAC...  they have good size and motors on the rest of the defensive line. 

A 4-3-5! I hate when teams play 12 man defenses!!! 

[Bob.Gregg]

Interesting take from Keith on this week's ATN:

Home team least deserving of a home game
Washington & Jefferson. The Presidents were on the bubble when Week 11 began and probably wouldn't have gotten in if a couple of teams handled business. I don't have any problem with W&J making the field, but when the team that beat you to win the conference (Thomas More) goes on the road, as do teams like Hardin-Simmons and Wesley, and one of the last teams in plays at home, that isn't right.

Interesting, to say the least.

#1--The Presidents were clearly on the bubble.  They very likely wouldn't have gotten in had others TCB.  But the Presidents did and the others didn't.  That's what happens in bubble situations.

#2--Do you have a problem with the most recent D-III Football.com poll?  That panel of football experts gave Thomas More 162 points less than W&J in the most recent Top 25 poll.  That's 163-1.

#3--I've oft written about what is "supposed" to matter and what isn't.  Thomas More's loss to Geneva was a loss.  Every team in the PAC HAD to play Geneva.  That PAC requirement deprived every team the opportunity to pick up another win in a game that was supposed to count in the criteria.  But whether it is supposed to count or not, Thomas More lost to a team that W&J beat by four touchdowns.  Yes, Thomas More beat W&J head to head and won the PAC AQ.  Does the Saints overall body of work merit a top 4 (or 5) regional seeding, ahead of a team they beat?  The AA D-III Football Committee says no.

#4--While we could discuss/debate the home game for Wesley vis a vis W&J, there is no debate about Hardin-Simmons, and no argument either.  However, that issue is not one that the AA D-III Football Committee can do much about.  And it appears, in the West, that they tried to do something about it, and were rebuffed by the bean counters.

Perhaps the Presidents are the least deserving host in the tournament.  But they wouldn't have been hosting had Thomas More beaten Geneva two weeks ago, and others who soiled their sheets over the past two weeks done what they could have done.  In fact, had even a couple of them done so, W&J would have stayed outside the bubble with no one to blame but themselves.

[SaintsFAN]

Defensively the Saints lineup in a 4 DL, 4 LB set (its looks more like the 4-3-5 that is popular at the moment)... the 2 outside LB are very fast and have the size of safeties... the 2 MLB are typical size 6'2 240 and 6' 230 and flow very well to the ball.  The defensive line is very quick, Tyler Owens is 200 lbs on the defensive line but was all-PAC...  they have good size and motors on the rest of the defensive line. 

A 4-3-5! I hate when teams play 12 man defenses!!! 

Yeah I'm a retard and its been saved for posterity.  In my defense, I had just got done yelling at someone here for my job.... for not doing their job. 

I guess you could say the 12 man has been the key to our season.  Hopefully the refs take the "Hush Money" this weekend.

[SaintsFAN]

Interesting take from Keith on this week's ATN:

Home team least deserving of a home game
Washington & Jefferson. The Presidents were on the bubble when Week 11 began and probably wouldn't have gotten in if a couple of teams handled business. I don't have any problem with W&J making the field, but when the team that beat you to win the conference (Thomas More) goes on the road, as do teams like Hardin-Simmons and Wesley, and one of the last teams in plays at home, that isn't right.

Interesting, to say the least.

#1--The Presidents were clearly on the bubble.  They very likely wouldn't have gotten in had others TCB.  But the Presidents did and the others didn't.  That's what happens in bubble situations.

#2--Do you have a problem with the most recent D-III Football.com poll?  That panel of football experts gave Thomas More 162 points less than W&J in the most recent Top 25 poll.  That's 163-1.

#3--I've oft written about what is "supposed" to matter and what isn't.  Thomas More's loss to Geneva was a loss.  Every team in the PAC HAD to play Geneva.  That PAC requirement deprived every team the opportunity to pick up another win in a game that was supposed to count in the criteria.  But whether it is supposed to count or not, Thomas More lost to a team that W&J beat by four touchdowns.  Yes, Thomas More beat W&J head to head and won the PAC AQ.  Does the Saints overall body of work merit a top 4 (or 5) regional seeding, ahead of a team they beat?  The AA D-III Football Committee says no.

#4--While we could discuss/debate the home game for Wesley vis a vis W&J, there is no debate about Hardin-Simmons, and no argument either.  However, that issue is not one that the AA D-III Football Committee can do much about.  And it appears, in the West, that they tried to do something about it, and were rebuffed by the bean counters.

Perhaps the Presidents are the least deserving host in the tournament.  But they wouldn't have been hosting had Thomas More beaten Geneva two weeks ago, and others who soiled their sheets over the past two weeks done what they could have done.  In fact, had even a couple of them done so, W&J would have stayed outside the bubble with no one to blame but themselves.

I'm not passing blame off for the Geneva loss and I'm not btching about where the Saints ended up.  I just thought it would be interesting to have that as a topic in here.  I'm not a W&J basher... take it easy. 

I'm glad they didn't have W&J play Muhlenburg and CNU play Wesley... I think this is a better match up for the Presidents.  The PAC needs a couple playoff wins this year and looks like W&J is going to be the team to do it... unless the Saints play perfectly in Naperville. 

[Bob.Gregg]

SaintsFan, my points were at you.

I didn't see that topic on any other board, so I wrote my response on this one.

Head to head is a factor.  It's not the only factor.  And without the AA flight restrictions (more stringent than TSA flight restrictions), W&J would have been on the road at the Muhles.

[SaintsFAN]

Yep...I brought it here with it being about the Presidents. 

Carry on..

[New Tradition]

Sounds like a fishing expedition to me....

No fishing expedition here.  I was just curious as to what to expect from them as I have never seen Thomas More before.

To even matters up, I'll tell you about NCC.  As far as the offense goes, they run mostly spread, but don't throw out if it as much as they used to.  Instead, they get people out of the box by going 4 wide and pounding the rock.  The 2 people that they leave in the backfield: QB Aaron Fanthorpe, and RB Dom Sulo were both first team all Conference players (Fanthorpe was also the CCIW Offensive Player of the Year.)  To spell Sulo, the Cardinals will give Thomas More a few doses of Mike Mucha (transfer from U of I) and Butch Rossberg.  The offensive line is pretty big and physical, and exceptionally well coached.  The Cards are very deep at wide receiver and they use all of them.  Fanthorpe definitely likes to spread the ball around and use all the weapons that he has around him, and is also pretty good at picking up yardage on foot.

Defensively, their base is a 3-3-5, but they just about never send only 3.  The defense is ridiculously complicated and all based on checks done at the line, so I won't even try to tell you about tendencies because they all change week to week based on formation, motion, etc.  I do know that their run defense is a bit more stout than their pass D.  All I have to say is that whether you are throwing or passing, try to avoid #40 (Matt Wenger, First team CCIW and CCIW Defensive Player of the Year) if that is physically possible...

As far as the special teams go, Head Coach John Thorne (CCIW Coach of the Year) takes a special interest in them, as they are usually the biggest momentum shifters in a game, and acts as his own special teams coordinator.  Adam Pucylowski was a first team CCIW punter and the Cardinal return game is solid.  NCC has a plethora of kids that can return the football (Tony Dieppa, Joe Schniederbauer, Joe Rubin) and they have all been used in the past couple of games, so I don't know who we will see tomorrow, but it should be fun to watch in any case.

I wish safe travels to anyone coming up tonight or tomorrow morning to see the game!