FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference

[Bob.Gregg]

Given what CWRU has done so far, it shouldn't be a "decent game"....

Here's the "point being" regarding W&J's defense:
When the game was hanging in the balance, they've shut-em-down.

Wooster--W&J leading 24-17 at half, held Scots to 93 yards in second half and 0 points.
Westminster--Titans scored mid-third to make it 28-14, recorded 4 first downs the rest of the game.
Carnegie-Mellon--Tartans held to 215 yards (71/quarter) through three and 14 points (42-14 after 45 minutes).
Thomas More--after Hayden's 11-yard run made it 31-28 with 2:26 left in third, the Saints were rolled 23-0 over the final 17 minutes, and were outgained 225-83.
Grove City--game was never hanging in the balance.
Bethany--after W&J took 14-3 lead early in the second, Bison managed 5 first downs and 125 yards the rest of the game.

Is this defense good enough to win in mid-late November?  Don't know.
Certainly has shown enough "shut-em-down" capability with the game up for grabs to get a chance.
That's all.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Given what CWRU has done so far, it shouldn't be a "decent game"....

Here's the "point being" regarding W&J's defense:
When the game was hanging in the balance, they've shut-em-down.

Wooster--W&J leading 24-17 at half, held Scots to 93 yards in second half and 0 points.
Westminster--Titans scored mid-third to make it 28-14, recorded 4 first downs the rest of the game.
Carnegie-Mellon--Tartans held to 215 yards (71/quarter) through three and 14 points (42-14 after 45 minutes).
Thomas More--after Hayden's 11-yard run made it 31-28 with 2:26 left in third, the Saints were rolled 23-0 over the final 17 minutes, and were outgained 225-83.
Grove City--game was never hanging in the balance.
Bethany--after W&J took 14-3 lead early in the second, Bison managed 5 first downs and 125 yards the rest of the game.

Bob, I'm hardly a W & J hater here.  I've had them ranked as the best team in the PAC every week.  I fully expect them to win the league.  But if you really think that they're playing shutdown defense, we have a different definition of the term; prior to the Bethany game, they'd given up 14+ points every week, and most of the points are not coming in garbage time (frankly, I would have thought you had a stronger argument if all of those points in those first four games came in the third and fourth quarter, after the games were decided, but that's actually not the case, they seem to give up a few yards and scores early and then buckle down in the fourth quarter). 

Allowing 17 first-half points to Wooster, giving up anything of note to Westminster and CMU (you'll note that CMU's not exactly an offensive juggernaut)...those are not "shutdown" defensive performances.  Good enough to win the league, sure, because they have the league's best offense by a wide margin, and the Bethany performance was their best defensive game of the season. 

[Bob.Gregg]

Okay.

[ADL70]

Spartans hold Prez to 1 TD in 1st half.  Int leads to CWRU  TD Block a FG and a PAT return the PAT for 2 pts.

[Bob.Gregg]

Sometimes, you have to win when not at your best.

Case held to 94 yards in first half but led, 9-6.
Spartans blocked field goal attempt that ended first possession after 19 plays, then blocked PAT after W&J scored late in the first and returned it 103 yards for a defensive PAT.

CWRU rolled on 17 play drive to start second for a go-ahead td, converting three 3rd downs & twice on 4th down.
Presidents then stopped on down on final two possessions of first half.

Third quarter, W&J got the pick-six from Kelley then forced four straight 3-and-outs.
Presidents offense finished two possessions in third with TDs to lead 27-9,
Defense did not allow CWRU a first down in the third until the final minute of the period.

Quick score for the Spartans pulled CWRU to within 27-16.

W&J stopped on down after 13 plays, taking 6+ minutes off the clock, then forced a punt.
Snap mishandled, passed for -1.

Presidents clinched the win with 33 yard, 10 play drive ending in TD, taking 5:40 off the clcok.

Offense struggled--Coughlin dropped multiple snaps, didn't pass particularly well and still threw for 330+ yards.
Multiple costly penalties, on each of the "stopped on downs" possessions...
Defense held CWRU to 135 yards through 3 quarters, then allowed nearly that much in the final period.

Didn't play up to par, won the game, didn't lose anybody to injury and improved to 7-0.
Sometimes, you have to win when not at your best.

[Bob.Gregg]

Geneva makes five picks and dumps Bethany, 20-14.

Waynesburg scores with 1:15 to play to down Thiel, 35-32.

[DagarmanSpartan]

The middle part of this league seems to have a lot of parity.

[ExTartanPlayer]

The middle part of this league seems to have a lot of parity.

Indeed. We have W & J, Thomas More, Waynesburg, and the Eight Dwarves.

I was afraid of a Bethany letdown a week after the biggest game in years for that program. They're not good enough to just show up and win on a bad day.

Waynesburg only stays in that 3 spot because they've managed to eke out wins on all of their close games, but even they don't really stand that far apart from the rest of the league; they've been winning every game by one score, even against the dregs.

I'll post an updated power ranking later today, but it's pretty obvious where this is going, methinks.

[SaintsFAN]

Yessir -- the league race is over.  Give the trophy and the invite to the Presidents. 

In other news, Hayden is back for TM.  As long as he's healthy against Waynesburg, I don't see a huge issue. 

Bob -- you've seen alot of PAC Football.  Where does he stack-up with what you've seen at RB in this league?  I can think of only one other name who would have been as talented. 

He's re-wrote most of the rushing records.  And let me tell you --- our program at Thomas More has had some DUDES at RB since the first year of play in 1991.  My teammates who haven't seen him play yet have been asking since he broke the record for yards in a game -- is he better than Will Castleberry? And they are shocked that he is.  You can't average 10 yards a carry for an entire season, like he did last year and not be a special back.  Will was a work horse.  I was the QB that day in 1997 when set the game rushing record with 321 on his 52 carries.  Hayden just breaks TD runs.  I've never seen anything like it. 

Anyways -- with him in the lineup, I don't see them losing to Waynesburg or in the Bridge Bowl against Mount St Joe game against Case. 

I think with it being the first game against Case for TMC -- it bodes well unless they have someone who is built like a B S House at LB and can run like a deer who they can have shadow Hayden.


Bob are you receiving my PM's on here?  Or can you leave me a working email address?

[ExTartanPlayer]

This week's PAC power rankings:

1. Washington & Jefferson (5-0, 7-0): Clearly the class of the field.  The only thing that can stop them now is themselves.  That game with Waynesburg looks more even on paper than it is; Waynesburg really isn't in their class.

2. Thomas More (5-1, 6-2): W & J totally has their number, but they're good enough to blow everyone else's doors off.

3A. Waynesburg (5-1, 7-1):
3B. Bethany (4-2, 5-3):

The dropoff from #1 and #2 on this list to Waynesburg is MUCH larger than the gap between Waynesburg and everyone else.  The Bethany/Waynesburg debate is interesting; on one hand, Bethany just took a bad loss against Geneva.  On the other hand, Bethany has beaten Waynesburg head-to-head and has played a tougher schedule overall, while Waynesburg's 7-1 record is largely a product of a backloaded schedule (in eight games that have played ONE team with a winning record, Bethany, and they lost that game).  I am keeping them here for now.  Bethany could still take the bronze medal if Waynesburg gets totally blitzed the last two games while Bethany finishes with two convincing wins.  Another Bethany loss, or a sterling Waynesburg effort against #1 and #2, and maybe Waynesburg will get the third spot in the final rankings.

Also, while it seems very unlikely, I must note that at least for now, Waynesburg could still take the PAC playoff berth by beating TMC and W & J in the last two weeks (in that scenario there would only be 2 one-loss teams, and Waynesburg would own a H2H tiebreaker).  I don't think there are any convoluted tiebreaker scenarios forthcoming; if they lost to TMC and beat W & J, there would be a first-place tie between TMC and W & J (one loss each) and the Presidents would take the tiebreaker.  The only possible convoluted tiebreaker involves two W & J losses in the next three weeks, and that looks so improbably that I won't bother breaking it down for now.

5. St. Vincent (3-2, 3-4): St. Vincent, although they lost to Thiel earlier in the season, probably ought to get the #5 spot thanks to wins over Carnegie Mellon and Case Western.

6. Case Western (3-4, 3-4): Kind of weird to rank a team that is likely with a losing conference record this high, but the unbalanced schedule creates those oddities.  Their four PAC losses have come against teams ranked ahead of them on the list and they've beaten CMU, Thiel, and Geneva.  No real argument can be made for ranking any of those teams above Case.

7. Carnegie Mellon (3-4, 3-4): Shootout loss to St. Vincent this week, but earlier wins over Westminster, Geneva, and Grove City merit this ranking.

8. Geneva (1-4, 2-5): Geneva has lost to Carnegie Mellon and Case Western and thus can't really move much higher than this yet, but the win over Bethany was nice.  A win over St. Vincent or Westminster could keep them here.

9. Thiel (1-4, 2-5): So, uh, Thiel lost to Westminster, but they also beat St. Vincent, lost to Case by a TD, lost to Waynesburg by a FG...I think this is about right for now.  Next week's game vs. Carnegie Mellon will sort out the middle of these rankings a little more.

10. Westminster (1-4, 1-6): You know, this is a deceiving 1-6, not that it's much consolation.  They've beaten Thiel and lost close games against Carnegie Mellon, Bethany, and Waynesburg (all of whom sport much better records) and, get this, a close opening loss to a now 4-3 Hiram team.

11. Grove City (0-5, 0-7): Besides the top, sadly, this is the clearest spot in the rankings.  Can the Wolverines muster some energy for the last two games?  Westminster and Thiel both are beatable.

[Bob.Gregg]

I'll get to the RB question later today.

Condolences to the Waynesburg University football family.
I just read in the Observer-Reporter of the passing of the widow of John F. Wiley, former Pittsburgh Steelers player, Waynesburg coach and benefactor.

[Bob.Gregg]

Got an email from you, tried to reply and got blocked....?
Don't have any "My Message" stuff from you.

<<< (in my profile, that email thingy)-- that's my email--work, home, personal, professional--have enough trouble with one let alone having a bunch like some of you youngsters do.

[ExTartanPlayer]

This week's games:

#8 Geneva at #1 Washington & Jefferson: Geneva is coming off their best effort of the season, but that won't cut it this week.  The Prez roll again.

#2 Thomas More at #3 Waynesburg: Looks good on paper...if you just look at the records.  But TMC has been blitzing teams all season that Waynesburg is just eking their way past.  Waynesburg must win this week to keep alive their hopes of stealing the AQ from W & J.  I do think sometimes winning (even ugly) starts to breed a winning attitude, so perhaps the Jackets will play their best at home when they need it the most, but realistically TMC looks like the better side here.

#3 Bethany at #11 Grove City: Can Bethany recover from last week's letdown loss and secure their first winning season since 2001?  I think so.

#10 Westminster at #5 St. Vincent: St. Vincent, also, seeks to keep alive hopes for a 5-5 or 6-4 season that would represent a huge step forward after two straight winless campaigns.  Westminster is a little better than their record looks, though, with four losses by seven points or less; this is a pretty even matchup despite the discordance in records and my unofficial PAC rankings.

#6 Case Western at UAA opponent WashU: Spartans are almost done with PAC play for the season.  They should have a decent chance in this one against a WashU squad that's really fallen off from last season.

#9 Thiel at #7 Carnegie Mellon: Tartans need to rebound from last week's shootout loss at St. Vincent to keep their own hopes at a .500 season alive.  Thiel is 2-5 but has been generally competitive all season.  Tossup game here.

[mikefln]

Sorry if this has been discussed in the past but I am not going to look up 221 pages to find the answer.  I live in the Pittsburgh South Hills but my work takes me to Columbus OH, Dayton OH, Cincinnati, OH, Florence KY, and all the small towns in between.  Last week I drove past a Thomas More bus on 70 heading to PA.  My question is how did a small college in NKY get in an athletic conference with other small colleges that are over 5 hours away?  Was there really no other closer options?  I can understand football to a degree after all it is 5 trips a year to make.  But all the other sports has to add up cost real quick.  Does anyone know the history on this?

Sorry if this is coming across as confertational or rude, I do not mean to do that.  But as a person who makes these trips 3-5 times a week with a Ford F-150, I am perplexed that Thomas More does not have better options to save travel time and money.

Mike

[D3MAFAN]

Sorry if this has been discussed in the past but I am not going to look up 221 pages to find the answer.  I live in the Pittsburgh South Hills but my work takes me to Columbus OH, Dayton OH, Cincinnati, OH, Florence KY, and all the small towns in between.  Last week I drove past a Thomas More bus on 70 heading to PA.  My question is how did a small college in NKY get in an athletic conference with other small colleges that are over 5 hours away?  Was there really no other closer options?  I can understand football to a degree after all it is 5 trips a year to make.  But all the other sports has to add up cost real quick.  Does anyone know the history on this?

Sorry if this is coming across as confertational or rude, I do not mean to do that.  But as a person who makes these trips 3-5 times a week with a Ford F-150, I am perplexed that Thomas More does not have better options to save travel time and money.

Mike

You should look at the UMAC and E8, they have teams that travel more than that at times. I know in the E 8 it was to maintain its AQ and for Salisbury and Frostburg State, it was a chance to be in a conference which allowed them to compete for a championship that came with Automatic Bid and still have a chance at Pool C, it worked for the first couple years for Salisbury, Frostburg not so much.