FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference

[ExTartanPlayer]

Three PAC teams will be playing this weekend in the ECAC tournament in Philadelphia at Franklin Field:

W&J plays Brockport (7-3) Friday at 8:15 PM

Westminster plays Utica ((7-3) Saturday at 11:00 AM

CMU plays Salisbury (7-3) Sunday at 11:00 AM

Others playing are Kean (6-4)  Cortland (5-5) Frostburg (9-1) St John Fisher (9-1) SUNY Maritime (6-4) and RPI (5-5)

Sad that CWRU can't have a post season game, but having 4 PAC teams still playing ain't bad.

A little disappointed at the records of some of the participants. Are there better teams that aren't participating? I know teams have to apply, and perhaps some chose not to. I know W&J has declined to apply in the past.

Jeff in Tennessee

Beat me to it.  Nice to see the bonus final game for seniors on W&J, Westminster, and CMU.  All three have fun opponents too.  I know that feelings tend to be mixed about this stuff, but I think it's really fun to see pairs of quality teams that traditionally don't play each other paired up.  I love the CMU-Salisbury matchup.

Re: the records and question about better teams, the Centennial Conference and the MAC have started their own "bowl series" with the 2 highest-ranked non-playoff teams from each conference, which removed 8-2 Delaware Valley, 7-3 Albright, 9-1 Muhlenberg, and 7-3 Franklin & Marshall from consideration.  That probably explains why a couple 5-5 teams qualified this year.  If the MAC and Centennial remain on the outside, the ECAC might want to contract from six bowl games to four if it's a priority to try and keep most teams at 7-3 or better to qualify for a bowl game...but I'm no expert.

[WashJeff68]

Ex Tartan,

I took a cursory look to see who else might have been selected and the most glaring name that jumped out was St Lawrence who spent much of the season in the top 25, finished 9-1 with the loss to Hobart who is in the playoffs. Unfortunately Hobart plays host to Mount Union Saturday. I suspect The Mount will take having to travel as an affront and seek appropriate retribution.

Regarding the MAC/Centennial arrangement, we had some discussion about the PAC working out a similar arrangement which I passed on to the W&J AD and he replied that the conference was looking into it.



Jeff in Tennessee

[Bob.Gregg]

W&J returns to historic Franklin Field for first time since 1897.

That September day, the Presidents lost to the University of Pennsylvania, 18-4.
Penn went on from there to finish 15-0 and win its third National Championship (and that would be today's D-I national championship....)

[SaintsFAN]

Three PAC teams will be playing this weekend in the ECAC tournament in Philadelphia at Franklin Field:

W&J plays Brockport (7-3) Friday at 8:15 PM

Westminster plays Utica ((7-3) Saturday at 11:00 AM

CMU plays Salisbury (7-3) Sunday at 11:00 AM

Others playing are Kean (6-4)  Cortland (5-5) Frostburg (9-1) St John Fisher (9-1) SUNY Maritime (6-4) and RPI (5-5)

Sad that CWRU can't have a post season game, but having 4 PAC teams still playing ain't bad.

A little disappointed at the records of some of the participants. Are there better teams that aren't participating? I know teams have to apply, and perhaps some chose not to. I know W&J has declined to apply in the past.

Jeff in Tennessee

Wasn't SJF 8-2 this year?

[WashJeff68]

Yes, 8-2 not 9-1

[SaintsFAN]

Wittenberg (#6 North Region, .492 SOS) at Thomas More (#4 South Region, .535 SOS)
Tale of the Tape

Total Offense
Witt #78 (417.2)
TMC #8 (517.9)

Rushing Offense
Witt #65 (193.1)
TMC #13 (272.1)

Passing Offense
Witt #123 (224.1)
TMC #85 (245.8)

Scoring Offense
Witt #50 (35.8)
TMC #12 (42.8)

Rushing Defense
Witt #9 (69.6)
TMC #31 (101.6)

Scoring Defense
Witt #2 (9.6)
TMC #43 (18.4)

3rd Down Conversion %
Witt #115 (.387)
TMC #2 (.547)

3rd down Conversion Defense
Witt #29 (.297)
TMC #73 (.346)

Red Zone Offense
Witt #12 (.896)
TMC #105 (.772)

Red Zone Defense
Witt #14 (.6)
TMC #171 (.808)

Net Punting
Witt #1 (40.78)
TMC #66 (34.32)


Like I alluded to earlier, a few thing things standout about the matchup in Crestview Hills.  Wittenberg has played good defense, getting off the field.  They have forced 22 turnovers this year and have a very good kicking game.  It looks like they have a couple standout LB's who play the run well.  That's been TMC's M.O. in 2016, running the ball with the three RB's and Kuntz.  It will be interesting to see if the Tigers defense can get off the field at the rate they did during the regular season.  TMC hasn't been a methodical offense in quite some time;  they get big plays to eat up chunks of yardage.  It will be interesting to see if the Witt defense is as good as advertised.  Same with the TMC offense. 

I caution those looking at TMC's defensive numbers, as they gave up big points playing a finesse Franklin team on the first weekend of the season.  Witt's passing game is not on par with Franklin's.  They like to pound the ball.  TMC prides itself, historically, on stopping the run and have taken the ball away 27 times this year. 

I'll be back to look at specific matchups in the trenches.  I suspect TMC will have a slight size advantage along both lines.  The question will be how the two teams match up at the skill positions. 

[ExTartanPlayer]

Ex Tartan,

I took a cursory look to see who else might have been selected and the most glaring name that jumped out was St Lawrence who spent much of the season in the top 25, finished 9-1 with the loss to Hobart who is in the playoffs. Unfortunately Hobart plays host to Mount Union Saturday. I suspect The Mount will take having to travel as an affront and seek appropriate retribution.

Regarding the MAC/Centennial arrangement, we had some discussion about the PAC working out a similar arrangement which I passed on to the W&J AD and he replied that the conference was looking into it.

Jeff in Tennessee

That's right, we did chat about that some last year.

I would love to see a PAC/OAC or PAC/NCAC bowl series, even if they were just for the league runners-up (or "highest ranked non playoff team" since occasionally the #2 from each league could make it into the playoffs).  But it certainly is much easier to just say this stuff than it is to make it happen, and I am appreciative of the ECAC staging the event as a fun consolation prize for good non-playoff teams.  Most of the feedback from last year (the first year where all games were held at a single site) was apparently positive.

[E.115]

Three PAC teams will be playing this weekend in the ECAC tournament in Philadelphia at Franklin Field:

W&J plays Brockport (7-3) Friday at 8:15 PM

Westminster plays Utica ((7-3) Saturday at 11:00 AM

CMU plays Salisbury (7-3) Sunday at 11:00 AM

Awesome.  This is incredible to consider the PAC may end up with 5 teams having at least 8 wins each. 

I have a good feeling on the four teams representing the PAC in the postseason.

[ADL70]

CWRU plays BOTH Chicago & Washington in 2017, at least according to their official website Future Schedules link.

CMU, not sure about the Tartans, but Rochester is definitely on the 2017 schedule (can't find a "future schedule" on CMU's site).
Rochester and Claremont-Mudd-Scripps are on the Tartans' 2018 schedule, with C-M-S and MIT on the 2019 docket.
CMU clearly has no intentions of only playing 9 PAC games.

So, based on the 'cut & paste' from CWRU's future schedule, they won't face TMC or W&J again next year.
I really can't feel too sorry for the Spartans if they don't make it to the dance.  They've received (and will again next year) more than sufficient accommodation.

I don't believe either of us know how the schedule was created, but you seem to come pretty close to implying that CWRU chose not to play either W&J or TMC.  If the schedule was created by blind draw, hopefully they will find a way in the future to ensure that the top teams all play one another.  CWRU and CMU are now free of their UAA connection.  I see per a WashU  site that they will play CMU in 2017, but not thereafter.  As you already noted CMU has announced that they will meet Rochester in 2017, so presumably Chicago and CMU will not face off.

I can't believe that CMU would have scheduled the two OOC games that they have without some indication from the PAC that a nine game conference schedule wasn't going to be. Or if the nine game slate comes to pass, I'm sure that they could drop one of those games.

A nine game schedule makes the most sense to me, since all PAC teams, except TMC, CWRU, and CMU, are playing nine conference foes currently, with one game not counting in the standings. Finding a second geographically desirable non-conference opponent is a problem because both NCAC and OAC play nine conference games.  As long as the top teams all play one another, the chance of two teams undefeated in conference play happening would be very slight.

It is possible though that CMU and CWRU asked for only eight conference games so that they could each maintain a more national schedule with two non-conference games, which has been demonstrated by CMU's announced future opponents.  If that is so, then it is all the more important that future PAC schedules ensure that the top teams all play one anothj\er.

[SaintsFAN]

I don't think it's fair to say CWRU asked to not play TMC and W&J.  It is fair to say they didn't have to play against what is currently the flagship program in the PAC and another program who is very close to that level and THAT affects the way some people perceive things, right or wrong. 

I'm not upset about TMC winning the PAC outright, but I'm not happy for those seniors at Case, who won't play in a playoff game. 

[Bob.Gregg]

I never said CWRU asked to not play TMC & W&J.
I did, and will continue to, say that the LEAGUE should have seen this scenario coming and faced it head on.

CWRU lost to CMU.  That practically means that the League still doesn't have to face it.
"It all worked fine, Bob.  What issue?"....I can hear it now.

SQUIRREL (subject change)....
I've heard alot over the last two weeks about the possible changes, some of which have been talked about here.
The busiest topic has been the TMC move to DII.
My question today is this:  What impact will the Saints vacating an entire women's basketball season, including national championship, due to major violations, have on this discussed move to DII?

[SaintsFAN]

I never said CWRU ased to not play TMC & W&J.
I did, and will continue to, say that the LEAGUE should have seen this scenario coming and faced it head on.

CWRU lost to CMU.  That practically means that the League still doesn't have to face it.
"It all worked fine, Bob.  What issue?"....I can hear it now.

SQUIRREL (subject change)....
I've heard alot over the last two weeks about the possible changes, some of which have been talked about here.
The busiest topic has been the TMC move to DII.
My question today is this:  What impact will the Saints vacating an entire women's basketball season, including national championship, due to major violations, have on this discussed move to DII?

The actual vacating will have no impact on whatever happens; while the fact the school is on NCAA Probation for two years just might.  If they had made the decision to move up to Division 2 and can't during the probation period, it will impact the PAC as the school will still be eligible to compete for PAC Titles/NCAA Tourney Berths. 

To be fair, it wasn't the fact they weren't MAJOR violations; it was more the fact the AD has said he didn't know that a player living with an assistant coach (with whom her family had a relationship previous to her attending TMC) while rehabbing her ACL surgery was against the rules.  That can't happen at an institution emphasizing athletics.  I happen to believe what they said at the Press Conference is true, but also feel like its not an excuse; it should've been checked on to be sure. 

It doesn't just affect perception of the women's basketball team.  There are people who compete with Thomas More on the field who will say "well the women's basketball team.."  I'm sure that is already going on.  Probably with a certain coach or two.    And thats not fair to the kids who work hard and compete on the field. 

[SaintsFAN]

The scores/picks are in on the front page.  As ususal, Mr. Rossi has picked against TMC; which given his record when doing this in 2016 means that TMC will advance.

Witt has played great defense and will be well-coached.  They give up an average of single digit points through 10 games.  But, as WallyWabash said on the NCAC board, there aren't any players like CT Tarrant in the NCAC and there aren't any real high-powered offenses there either.  This is will be the best offense Witt faces while it will also be the best defense TMC has seen.  They are going to get tested.  The Saints put up plenty of points in a half at Wabash last year in Round 2 and some will point to that game and say this will be another disappointment for TMC.  I don't think this will be the case.  Witt does have one guy on the DL with good size to match up against TMC's OL (which averages 6'2'' 296 lbs) and they have two VERY good LB's.  Unless Witt can bring the house to stop the run game while keeping three DB's deep, I believe TMC will score enough to win the game.  Kuntz and Garland/Winkler are just too good at running those 7's, 8's and 9's. 

Defensively, TMC has had a very good defense for most of the year.  Witt will try to help their defense by possessing the ball and trying to run it down Thomas More's throat.  Then they like the play-action game.  This is a good matchup for Thomas More's defense; they had trouble with the finesse offense at Franklin but not teams who like to run the ball.  I like the experience of the 6 senior starters on this unit. 

Fans:  Don't let a low-scoring first half bother you.  Remember what happened after a 7-3 half against W&J. 

TMC 31
WIT 20

Wish I could be there

[HansenRatings]

SaintsFAN did some pretty good analysis of the TMC/Witt game. I haven't watched either of them play at all this year, but here's what their opponent-adjusted averages are. (ANY/A is adjusted net yards/play, which accounts for turnovers and touchdowns)

Thomas More


Wittenberg


Wittenberg was solidly in the Top 25 for most defensive categories at the beginning of the season, which was pretty front-loaded with their best competition, but they haven't dominated the latter half of their schedule the way I expected. It doesn't seem to be either team's MO, but going through the air for both offenses appears to be the better matchup. TMC appears slightly better in pretty much every aspect, which bodes well for them. As long as turnovers don't play a huge role, it feels like TMC could have a comfortable victory.

[SaintsFAN]

SaintsFAN did some pretty good analysis of the TMC/Witt game. I haven't watched either of them play at all this year, but here's what their opponent-adjusted averages are. (ANY/A is adjusted net yards/play, which accounts for turnovers and touchdowns)

Thomas More


Wittenberg


Wittenberg was solidly in the Top 25 for most defensive categories at the beginning of the season, which was pretty front-loaded with their best competition, but they haven't dominated the latter half of their schedule the way I expected. It doesn't seem to be either team's MO, but going through the air for both offenses appears to be the better matchup. TMC appears slightly better in pretty much every aspect, which bodes well for them. As long as turnovers don't play a huge role, it feels like TMC could have a comfortable victory.

Thanks, Logan.  You do great work.  Love the website. 

Here's an article from Springfield OH, which quotes Coach Joe Fincham:
http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/sports/playoffs-a-meat-grinder-for-wittenberg-tigers/ns8x3/