FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference

[jam40jeff]

I checked the box scores for each school played against Case's box score.  For Calhoun, the discrepancy in tackles is completely in the Saint Vincent game.  Case has him down for 5 solo tackles and 1 assist.  The box score on Saint Vincent's website shows him as having 3 solo tackles and 1 assist.  However, the Saint Vincent website also has the quarterback, Rob Cuda, marked down for 2 solo tackles.  Both Cuda and Calhoun wear #4, so it seems as if Saint Vincent got the two mixed up.  Those starts must be the ones that got submitted to the PAC.

For Weisberg, the discrepancy is in the Bethany game.  But in this case, both Case's website and Bethany's website agree that he had 5 solo tackles and 3 assists, but the PAC website shows 4 tackles and 3 assists.

[Pat Coleman]

Did you count from box scores on the PAC website?

I sent an email to Case's SID earlier this afternoon -- it may be that the PAC has since corrected.

The box scores on the PAC website do add up to the totals shown on the PAC website.  The box scores on D3Football match those on Case's website.

They always will -- it's one file shared across our network.

Case folks said they'd take this up with the conference office. I'm sure it will be fixed and good eagle eye on the St. Vincent game.

[ADL70]

I checked the box scores for each school played against Case's box score.  For Calhoun, the discrepancy in tackles is completely in the Saint Vincent game.  Case has him down for 5 solo tackles and 1 assist.  The box score on Saint Vincent's website shows him as having 3 solo tackles and 1 assist.  However, the Saint Vincent website also has the quarterback, Rob Cuda, marked down for 2 solo tackles.  Both Cuda and Calhoun wear #4, so it seems as if Saint Vincent got the two mixed up.  Those starts must be the ones that got submitted to the PAC.

For Weisberg, the discrepancy is in the Bethany game.  But in this case, both Case's website and Bethany's website agree that he had 5 solo tackles and 3 assists, but the PAC website shows 4 tackles and 3 assists.

SVC was a home CWRU game, the first for new ststa crew.. The Calhoun/Cuda confusion was corrected later on CWRU's site, but not update on PAC's. I participated in the process.

[SpartanMom_2016]

You guys are good.  At one point they had Aaron with 1 rushing attempt at -2 yards.  I assure you that Aaron hasn't played an offensive down in US since he was 15 years old.  He did play some offense in Italy but that was just for fun (and to avoid running up the score in a friendly game).

They must have a way of fixing mistakes. 

At any rate this is a big game for both CWRU and W&J.  Unfortunately, I will have to miss the second half as I will be performing Mozart's Requiem in Miami this evening (with Master Chorale of South Florida).  I will be able to listen to most of the first half in the car while I drive down. 

Last year the CWRU/W&J game was also a concert week but the game was during the day.

I am hoping for the best for the Spartans.

[SpartanMom_2016]

There are indeed two different sets of tackle numbers for those players.

PAC site:
4A    Cody Calhoun     6    18    11    29
37    Aaron Weisberg     6    12    15    27
8     Gavin Sandidge     5    13    12    25
92    Dayton Snyder     6    13    12    25
6     Andrew Banathy     6    13    9    22

Case site:
4A   Cody Calhoun   So   SS   6   20   12   32
37   Aaron Weisberg   Sr   ILB   6   13   15   28
8   Gavin Sandidge   Sr   ILB   5   13   12   25
92   Dayton Snyder   Sr   DE   6   13   12   25
6   Andrew Banathy   So   ILB   6   14   10   24

They count differently in Cleveland...

Or the PAC doesn't count correctly...

I chose one sample player (Cody Calhoun) and went through the defensive statistics in the box scores on this site for all 6 Case games and added up his tackles.  It came out to 20 solo, 12 ast, 32 total.

EDIT: To see if this was a fluke, I chose a second player (Aaron Weisberg) and went through the same process.  His tackles came out to 13 solo, 15 ast, 28 total, also matching Case's website.  I'm not sure how, but it seems as if the PAC is underreporting Case's tackles.

None of this explains why the Case linebackers are not on the list of tackle leaders on the PAC website.  Whether Aaron has 27 or 28 tackles per game it calculates to 4.5 or 4.67 tackles a game which would put him (and a bunch of the others) within the PAC linebacker leaders in tackles.  But none of them show up.

[Pat Coleman]

I think your explanation there was right on -- that Case breaks them down to ILB and OLB in its roster file and the PAC stats don't pick up on that.

[DagarmanSpartan]

GREAT game so far!!!

14-14 at the half.

COME ON SPARTANS!!!

Let's pull off the upset!!!

[ExTartanPlayer]

Enjoyed watching the Tartans notch a 41-13 win today to raise their record to 4-3 and probably secure themselves firmly in 5th place of my unofficial PAC rankings (previously in a toss-up with St. Vincent for that spot).  SVC actually contained Sam Benger relatively well (37 carries for only 113 yards) but the CMU passing attack was on the money today.  Even when starting QB Andrew Hearon had to leave the game after an injury scare (he would return), sophomore backup Bryan Jangro came in and kept the offense humming, and Jangro later threw a TD pass in the 4th quarter to punctuate the victory.  The SVC secondary did not match up well against taller, more physical CMU wide receivers.  Offensively, the St. Vincent starting QB was a very impressive runner but could not get anything going in the air; surprisingly, CMU's defense shut out the Bearcats until they replaced him with the backup QB, who was able to get a little bit of a passing game going and score a few TD's (although he also threw a couple of INT's).  I'm very happy with this performance from the Tartans; SVC is not a top-tier opponent, but they're pretty firmly in the middle class of the PAC and CMU handled them easily today.  As long as they take care of business next week at Thiel, the Tartans will reach 5-3 and be playing with some house money entering the final two games with Chicago and Case Western.  As a UAA alum I can't help but feel some pride at seeing how well the four football-playing schools are doing this year.  WashU is 5-2, 4-2 in the SAA; Chicago is also 5-2, 4-2 in the SAA; CMU is 4-3, 4-2 in the PAC; and CWRU is 5-1, 5-0 in the PAC and battling with W & J.  Nobody is a world-beater but that is four solid, respectable teams who are all at least in the upper half of the new conferences.

Following the CWRU-W & J game online right now.  Whale of a game, pretty much as expected.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Welp.  Heck of a game there.  Sets up a CWRU-Thomas More showdown for the title, and eliminates W & J from the playoff picture.

[WashJeff68]

Watched the W&J - CWRU game. Obviously disappointed
but CWRU clearly deserved to win. Cruda is the real deal and W&J was not able to shut him down, or get their offense moving consistently.

Good luck to CWRU the rest of the way.

Jeff in Tennessee

[DagarmanSpartan]

Biggest win for Case in years.  Cuda is DA MAN!!!

We definitely deserve to be in next week's top 25.

[SaintsFAN]

Welp.  Heck of a game there.  Sets up a CWRU-Thomas More showdown for the title, and eliminates W & J from the playoff picture.

It's ON, baby!!  There's a crew of alums heading to Cleveland in 12 days.. I'm booking my flight on Monday for it. 

I'm really glad Thomas More is playing Case this season and respect the Spartans.  TM will be ready, though. 

[ExTartanPlayer]

Biggest win for Case in years.  Cuda is DA MAN!!!

We definitely deserve to be in next week's top 25.

I have been on the Case bandwagon since about week 4, but please note that the W & J win is the first real sign of their legitimacy against good teams....and also then please note that W & J is a long time removed from its relevance as a national powerhouse; last year's playoff win against Wittenberg was their first playoff win in seven years and they promptly lost 67-0 to Mount the next week. 

Case will get some votes, but I would stop well short of "definitely deserve to be in next week's top 25" - and please do not give me the "we're 6-1 and just beat the 15th-ranked team in the nation" line that I can already see forming in your mind.  W & J at 15 last week was an extremely puzzling ranking, coming off a good-but-not-great season last year in which they lost a PAC game and got blown out really, really badly in the playoffs (big difference between a 34-20 loss where you trade scores for awhile vs. 67-0) and carrying an 18-point loss to a team ranked only four spots ahead of them.  There just wasn't much basis for W & J being that high (ranked, yes, but not all the way up at #15). 

Case will not just rocket up to that spot because they beat W & J.  Besides the top 25 teams, another 20 teams were in the "also receiving votes" category last week (so 45 teams received at least one vote for the poll).  Case was not among them.  They will join that group this week, but eight weeks into the season a team isn't going to go from "zero votes" to "ranked" (leapfrogging 20 teams or more) with one result.  It's a very good result, but not enough for that kind of leap.  CWRU is helped by the fact that a number of teams near the bottom of the top 25 and in the ORV group lost, but that would still be an enormous leap, and one that even I am not sure would be justified.

Regardless of what happens in the rankings, Case's postseason chances will hang on their result vs. Thomas More.  They would be a very, very, very long shot for a Pool C bid at 8-2 with a h2h loss to Chicago, who could also be on the list of candidates for last few spots in the South RR's.  So I would probably not worry about whether they're in this week's Top 25.  It has no bearing on their playoff chances.

[SaintsFAN]

Biggest win for Case in years.  Cuda is DA MAN!!!

We definitely deserve to be in next week's top 25.

I have been on the Case bandwagon since about week 4, but please note that the W & J win is the first real sign of their legitimacy against good teams....and also then please note that W & J is a long time removed from its relevance as a national powerhouse; last year's playoff win against Wittenberg was their first playoff win in seven years and they promptly lost 67-0 to Mount the next week. 

Case will get some votes, but I would stop well short of "definitely deserve to be in next week's top 25" - and please do not give me the "we're 6-1 and just beat the 15th-ranked team in the nation" line that I can already see forming in your mind.  W & J at 15 last week was an extremely puzzling ranking, coming off a good-but-not-great season last year in which they lost a PAC game and got blown out really, really badly in the playoffs (big difference between a 34-20 loss where you trade scores for awhile vs. 67-0) and carrying an 18-point loss to a team ranked only four spots ahead of them.  There just wasn't much basis for W & J being that high (ranked, yes, but not all the way up at #15). 

Case will not just rocket up to that spot because they beat W & J.  Besides the top 25 teams, another 20 teams were in the "also receiving votes" category last week (so 45 teams received at least one vote for the poll).  Case was not among them.  They will join that group this week, but eight weeks into the season a team isn't going to go from "zero votes" to "ranked" (leapfrogging 20 teams or more) with one result.  It's a very good result, but not enough for that kind of leap.  CWRU is helped by the fact that a number of teams near the bottom of the top 25 and in the ORV group lost, but that would still be an enormous leap, and one that even I am not sure would be justified.

Regardless of what happens in the rankings, Case's postseason chances will hang on their result vs. Thomas More.  They would be a very, very, very long shot for a Pool C bid at 8-2 with a h2h loss to Chicago, who could also be on the list of candidates for last few spots in the South RR's.  So I would probably not worry about whether they're in this week's Top 25.  It has no bearing on their playoff chances.

Very well said, ExTP.  Agree with a lot you said - I'm sure they'll get votes.  I'm wondering how much home field was worth tonight for Sparty.. valid because of the one score win.

[Bob.Gregg]

W&J has been highly over-rated for some time.
The offense, while exciting at times, is incapable of maintaining possessions against quality pressure defenses.
In addition, by design, the offense puts their own defense in an almost indefensible position.
For instance, tonight, following CWRU's 12-play TD drive that tied the game at 21, the W&J offense managed 1 minute of possession before forcing the defense right back out.  The defense gets a stop and a special teams breakdown put them right back out.

And tonight's situation isn't unique to this game or this season.  It IS the prevailing philosophy of the program:
SPRINT SPRINT SPRINT, even if part of your team, an important part, MUST get a break of more than 45-60 seconds.

Another example:  in ETF's oft-posted MU's whacking of W&J in last year's second round:
Following one quarter, W&J trailed the nation's best offense AND best defense 7-0, certainly still in the ball game.
In the second period, W&J had four possessions (complete possessions ending with punts) that totaled less than 5 minutes.
If this program thinks it can SPRINT SPRINT SPRINT with the D3 measuring stick, I guess I have no idea what I'm talking about.

W&J's at a philosophical cross-roads:  from a program standpoint, is it good enough to whack the repetitive doormats of the PAC, knock off most challengers and win several PAC titles every five years, then get shown the exit door early on in the D3 tournament.  If that's enough, if that's programmatically acceptable, so be it.

If it's not the level to which Pres. Haring-Smith, AD McGuinness and HC Sirrianni aspire, some hard facts have to be faced.
And from MY seat, the OFFENSIVE APPROACH has to be looked at first.

Congrats to CWRU and thanks for the great hospitality.  I look forward to working there again down the road.