FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

And if they do, how long until they "Mississippi College" and flip back (and then back again)?

... or McMurray.

DII has certainly been the rumor... but I can't tell you how many schools I have heard are going to explore DII and that is the last I hear of it (or I just hear it on loop for years). Of those I hear saying they will do it and end up doing it are a very small percentage. I am not sure TMC is in a position to go DII or even NAIA... they may explore it, but I think they may have to find another DIII dance partner. Especially in this financial landscape for colleges and universities... adding that kind of financial impact on the budget doesn't make sense for a lot of schools despite efforts to say or do otherwise.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I will add that the time needed to even get the ball rolling on joining DII before actually being able to do it and get through the process makes it seem less than ideal. They would be left a drift in DIII with no conference home (because what conference will take them if they are going to leave anyway except maybe the ACAA LOL)... and that could do a lot to derails some of their programs and leave them in worse shape competitively before making such a jump. I am not sure the tea leaves make DII a reasonable idea.

[WashJeff68]

Be interesting to hear SaintsFan's perspective

[jknezek]

NAIA really doesn't have a great conference for them to join either. Maybe Mid-South? Or maybe they stay DIII in the SLIAC? Would that get the SLIAC to 7 football members?

[Scots13]

I agree with Bob - DII is most likely place given their ambitions. Only DII conference that looks logical is the Great Midwest with most schools in Ohio and most of the rest in bordering states. It's a new conference with 8 current members (3 football) and 6 joining this year (all with football). That would make 14 total members with 9 playing football. TMC would round that out. A good fit geographically for TMC - less travel than current PAC locations.

Good news for the PAC is that this eliminates the issue of not having a complete round robin in football, unless I am missing something.

Could they consider NAIA?

Bold move given the instances where NAIA teams have moved to NCAA in the past. UVA Wise, Tusculum, Carson Newman, Brevard, Shorter, among others are schools in the "South Region" that have made the NAIA to NCAA switch (more times to D2 instead of D3). Although, Kentucky does have several NAIA schools. I think it's around 12.

[Ralph Turner]

How about the USA South with Berea as a travel partner?

Does that overload football?

[Scots13]

How about the USA South with Berea as a travel partner?

Does that overload football?

Berea doesn't have a football program unless they've announced something and I missed it, but the USAC already has 9 football members and 19 total members. I personally feel the USAC is getting out of control. The GSAC was basically swallowed up by the USAC and now every school that's moving from NAIA or D2 in the area is joining (which is the case for the new '17 members in Berea, Brevard and Pfeiffer). 

[ExTartanPlayer]

I'd suspect an announcement soon of their plans since they have about 12 months left.  Seems like they are high tailing it PDQ.

I bet the boys in VA would like them to trade the PACtion for ODACtion...

Yep.  It's surprising they'd announce departure plans without future plans, to be honest.

That was my thought too. No one wants to be an independent these days. Brutal road. So they must have something else more or less lined up.

Agreed yet again.

I will add that the time needed to even get the ball rolling on joining DII before actually being able to do it and get through the process makes it seem less than ideal. They would be left a drift in DIII with no conference home (because what conference will take them if they are going to leave anyway except maybe the ACAA LOL)... and that could do a lot to derails some of their programs and leave them in worse shape competitively before making such a jump. I am not sure the tea leaves make DII a reasonable idea.

You know more about this than I do, so I'll trust your expertise here.

Interesting, I figured that I would be one of the first in on this story, only to see that the board is already abuzz.

Anyways, this makes a rather obvious change to the conference landscape (from a football perspective).  We'll see how things go this year but presumably that makes the expected lead-dogs to be W&J, Case, CMU, and Westminster moving forward.

[SaintsFAN]

You know more about this than I do, so I'll trust your expertise here.

Interesting, I figured that I would be one of the first in on this story, only to see that the board is already abuzz.

Anyways, this makes a rather obvious change to the conference landscape (from a football perspective).  We'll see how things go this year but presumably that makes the expected lead-dogs to be W&J, Case, CMU, and Westminster moving forward.

I agree, but we have to find out what life is like for Case after QBRob graduates.  I remember the lull in between stud QBs and you don't recruit guys like that every other year.   

I know you're not doing this, but I wouldn't count out Thomas More in 2017.  They are returning alot, are uber-talented and are going to have a high level of pisstivity. 

Its really too bad they'll not play Case again - unless both make the dance in 2017 and the committee gives it to us.

[ExTartanPlayer]

You know more about this than I do, so I'll trust your expertise here.

Interesting, I figured that I would be one of the first in on this story, only to see that the board is already abuzz.

Anyways, this makes a rather obvious change to the conference landscape (from a football perspective).  We'll see how things go this year but presumably that makes the expected lead-dogs to be W&J, Case, CMU, and Westminster moving forward.

I agree, but we have to find out what life is like for Case after QBRob graduates.  I remember the lull in between stud QBs and you don't recruit guys like that every other year.   

I know you're not doing this, but I wouldn't count out Thomas More in 2017. They are returning alot, are uber-talented and are going to have a high level of pisstivity. 

Its really too bad they'll not play Case again - unless both make the dance in 2017 and the committee gives it to us.

Ha, I should have been more clear - when I said "moving forward" I meant in the post-TMC era.  Of course they are major contenders this year.

BTW, what is "pisstivity" ?   

[SaintsFAN]

Ha, I should have been more clear - when I said "moving forward" I meant in the post-TMC era.  Of course they are major contenders this year.

BTW, what is "pisstivity" ?   

It's an old Chad Ochocinco word from when the Bungles were on Hard Knocks in the late oughts.  It was a pretty funny explanation from him on it and its apparently made it's way into my vocabulary.  I definitely try not to use it at work!

[Ron Boerger]

Re the talk of going scholarship (either D2 or NAIA-I) ... TMC's endowment of $20M (2015 figures, per USN&WR) would be a stumbling block unless they have athletic supporters who would contribute substantially to the costs inherent in such a transition. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Re the talk of going scholarship (either D2 or NAIA-I) ... TMC's endowment of $20M (2015 figures, per USN&WR) would be a stumbling block unless they have athletic supporters who would contribute substantially to the costs inherent in such a transition.

Yeah... people don't realize how much the scholarships kill athletics budgets. This is the biggest reason I think the idea of transitioning from DIII to DII ends up stalling out for many who are rumored to have looked into it.

[Bob.Gregg]

TMC (15 M) has the smallest endowment of all the schools in the PAC.

Geneva 28 M
Chatham 53 M
Waynesburg 55 M
Thiel 68 M
St. Vincent 71 M
Bethany 77 M
W&J 104 M
Grove City 111 M

Of course, those (combined) pale in comparison to the Football Only associates:
CWRU 1.66 B
CMU 1.71 B

[jknezek]

I've never really understood the point of DII the last 25 years. There is no television revenue to offset the scholarships. You have a very small amount of bragging/recruiting advantage over DIII, but it's just not that much benefit given the costs. Schools can do what they want, obviously, but you can't tell me that switching the DII athletic scholarships over to academic scholarships wouldn't net the same amount of attendance revenue.

There must be something I'm missing.

In TMC's case, however, I still think they must have something lined up. There is no way they are just taking a flyer on going somewhere else eventually. I'll be interested to see whatever they announce.