FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference

[OldPhart]

IMO TMC's ONLY chance to get to the playoffs now is to win out.  With losses to two unranked teams and with no AQ in the PAC this year, winning the PAC won't be enough for the Saints.

I doubt anyone with two losses gets into the playoffs (unless they win a conference which has a Pool A). Two losses to unranked teams would put TMC behind a whole host of two-loss teams which did lose to contenders.

Ron - Don't you think if TMC could pull off upsets against ranked Thiel and W&J in the process of winning out their season that they would get any consideration?  I imagine it would do wonders for their SOS or whatever the measure is called now.  Besides, other two loss teams might stumble coming towards the finish.

Looking at last year, I note that Willamette made it in at 7-3 (only 2 D3 losses though - and those to very strong opponents).  With this year's playoff field expanded to 32 do you really think that ALL 2 loss teams without an AQ will be shut out?

Regardless, I would rather see Thiel and W&J win out and have both of them in postseason.  Primarily, because I'm a Thiel fan and secondarily for the good of the PAC's reputation.

[Ron Boerger]

Looking at last year, I note that Willamette made it in at 7-3 (only 2 D3 losses though - and those to very strong opponents).  With this year's playoff field expanded to 32 do you really think that ALL 2 loss teams without an AQ will be shut out?

Last year's Pool B class was fairly weak.  This year with Thiel and W&J (among others) it seems unlikely that the NCAA will have to look hard at two loss teams.  I could certainly be wrong.  There have always been plenty of one-loss (Pool C-eligible) teams sitting at home and I expect those to get the majority, if not all, of the new bids. 

Teams like independent Huntingdon, which if they win out will only have a loss to Trinity (TX), are also in the mix for either a B or C this season.

[gamegenie]

I am welcoming myself to the PAC post patterns.  I have sat back and watched as most of you have once again filled your  minds with hope, and it sickens me to know that you will all,  mostly be proven wrong again.  Year in and year out you sit and hope that your teams  i.e. Thiel will be an elite team only to bite the harsh bullet called reality at the end of the season.  We all know that W&J is KING when it comes to the PAC and although Thiel got a taste this year and Waynesburg got a taste a few years back we all know that if we had to take a team to advance the furthest into the playoffs it would be W&J.  So Thiel you might as well give up your pipe dream now to save yourself some dignity and the obvious let down that lies ahead for you.  Do not be angry this is simply one person who has seen this happen year in and year out and dont enjoy seeing people build themselves and there teams up just to be knocked right back down.  Your bottom dwellers always have and always will Im trying to do you guys a favor and state the obvious.  You might as well be Cleveland Browns fans if you enjoy the let downs year in and year out.  So just watch and see as evryhting unfolds how the cream will always rise to the top and if your pay any kind of attention to this conference we all know that it will be W&J.

[oldtimer4774]

gamegenie,

sounds to me like you are a salty W&J fan who cant deal with your loss to Thiel this year- well unfortunately- W&J did lose to Thiel this year whether you want to believe it or not- I was at the game and it was a beautiful thing--  deal with it

[the_burghboy]

Two out of three years not winning the PAC doesn't sound like a KING.

More like the court jester.

[Bob.Gregg]

Two out of three years not winning the PAC doesn't sound like a KING.

Don't get in a hurry, burghboy.  This year's title isn't gone yet.  And while maybe they're not KING, the PRESIDENTS have 18 of the last 21.

Enjoy the victory, but don't get ahead of yourself.


And please don't get the idea that I was defending the "genie" that got out of the bottle.

[OldPhart]

Two out of three years not winning the PAC doesn't sound like a KING.

Don't get in a hurry, burghboy.  This year's title isn't gone yet.  And while maybe they're not KING, the PRESIDENTS have 18 of the last 21.

Amen to that! Both Thiel and TMC control their own destiny.  However, unless the PAC has a tiebreaker, I think the best W&J can hope for is co-champs - and that requires help.

With respect to 18 of the last 21: it surely shows the strength of the program.  However, I would argue that the 2 PAC championships out of the last 3 are the most impressive.  The competitiveness of PAC is CLEARLY superior to what it was 4 or 5 years ago.  Yes there were blowouts in the conference last year.  But going back over the past 3 years I think the level of competition has improved.  I think this will help W&J in the postseason - as long as they take care of business for the next three weeks and secure their bid.

When I look to the next 21 years of PAC football, I doubt that we will see any team taking 18 of the 21 championships and I think the conference will be better served by it (heh-heh - the nice thing is I figure no one will call me on this prediction for a while...  )

BTW - which bottle were you thinking that genie escaped from.  My guess is that from his reference to "sickness"  it was PBR   

[the_burghboy]

I know this may draw some arrows, but I wonder how much of the conference is more 'competitive' as much as W&J falling back toward the pack.   Probably a bit of both.   Thiel obviously has grown and is more talented than they have been for a long time.   Waynesburg?  .500 or better the last three years, and showed some flashes. 

I guess what I'm saying is although in the last three years there have only been 2 PAC losses by W&J, as someone that witnessed both of them, I felt like the most talented team didn't win.  That's not meant as an excuse, because talented teams don't equate to winning teams in certain situations, and clearly were beaten by the better teams that day. 

18 out of 21 PAC titles is impressive, and my previous comment was made to state that you can twist stats any way one wishes.   If W&J does not win the PAC this year, I think it's safe to say they are not the 'KING' anymore.   Almost all of that streak came under Luckhardt and Banaszak.  The program has a new face on it, and how they finish will be interesting, but if Thiel continues to win out, would put a program that has not won the conference for the second time in three years.

I admit I'm biased, and a pessimist too, which is an annoying combo 

[Dutch12]

Obviously, W&J is the more talented team overall.  They key is the depth of their talent.  They have been winning for a long time and it shows in the recruits they get.  When good players graduate, good players are there to take their place.  In order for Thiel or any other team to match the talent and depth W&J has they have to continue winning year in and year out. 

As for this year I think Thiel matches up pretty well vs. W&J if you look at the starting line up, that is why they were able to play with and ultimately win at W&J.  The same can probably be said with the Waynesburg team that beat them a few years ago.  The question is after this season who will be there to fill the shoes of the talent Thiel loses.  The PAC teams that have beaten W&J in the past have had a good group of kids for a year that played well together and then the next year those players graduate and they start from square one. 

Bottom line is if you want to have the talent W&J is able to recruit then do exactly what W&J has done to get it.  KEEP WINNING !!!!

[OldPhart]

Perhaps I should have been more explicit.  W&J has been dominant - but I think that Thiel & Waynesburg have been able to close the gap significantly.  Does it still translate into W&J wins?  For the most part - yup.  But conference games are no longer automatic blowouts.   Where W&J formerly had to do little more than "show up" to win the conference, it is obvious to me that over the last few years the PAC champion - whether it was W&J or Waynesburg (and whoever it is this year) had to take conference games very seriously indeed.  I think this translates to a much more healthy PAC football conference than that of the 80's and 90's.

burghboy - when it comes to talent at the skill positions I think that W&J clearly has an edge over Thiel.  However, I would argue that may not be the case when considering the O and D line.  I know you were at the Thiel/W&J game whereas I was not - so maybe you want to comment on that.  On another note: Banaszak vs Sirianni - you mention all of those championships under the previous coaches, but wasn't it last year under Sirianni that W&J has had its best playoff run in recent history?  Do you think that is because of the coaching, in spite of the coaching, or somewhere in between?   As someone who was not a big fan of Banny's, I am interested in opinions from others a bit closer to the situation.

[ThielFan]

Your bottom dwellers always have and always will Im trying to do you guys a favor and state the obvious.  You might as well be Cleveland Browns fans if you enjoy the let downs year in and year out.  So just watch and see as evryhting unfolds how the cream will always rise to the top and if your pay any kind of attention to this conference we all know that it will be W&J.

Nice troll post.  Next time do us all a REAL favor and make an intelligible statement with a few real facts or statistics that might provoke a fresh thought or two, instead of spilling your sour grapes all over the message board.  Thank you for "Stating the obvious", I appreciate your waste of my time.

[SaintsFAN]

They make a bottle form of PBR??!!

[Bob.Gregg]

Granting my own bias, here's what I was trying to say in the "King" comments above.

Thiel has closed the gap with W&J in terms of three of the last four games have been competitive.  What happens over the next 5-8 years will tell whether Thiel has become regularly competitive.

Waynesburg has closed the gap with W&J in terms of having won one of the last two conference titles.  But outside of the 2003 season, the Yellow Jackets have been and continue to be a two-loss team in the conference, and one of those losses has ALWAYS been to W&J.

Westminster came into the conference in 2000 as an NAIA (scholarship) provisional member, and won at W&J.  Since then, the Titans have been a .500 ballclub, and haven't beaten W&J at all, the last several years haven't been close.

Grove City has beaten W&J twice ('97, '98) and has only been really in one other game since.

Bethany hasn't beaten W&J since 1982 and nothing more needs said in that regard.

As long as W&J continues to be the measuring stick against which ALL of the other programs in the PAC measure themselves, they will continue to be the "King".  And that will be the case until W&J REGULARLY doesn't win the title.

[OldPhart]

Bob - And TMC is still a bit of a question mark, but has made the conference much more interesting this year.

[OldPhart]

They make a bottle form of PBR??!!

Note the brown bottle which helps prevent it from going "skunky" - as if one could tell!