FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference

[PittTBCW]

Bob,

I would love to see either Thiel or W&J play Trinity or UMHB to get out of this bracket (Obviously Thiel first haha) just to see how the PAC matches up with Texas teams. I did not see the game last year but I heard it was painful and I am just curious to see how these teams match up againts upper tier southern teams and conferences. Really seems like there is a biased about northern teams in the south region. That why they let them settle it on the field. I can't say who is better because I do not get to see teams like Trinity, UMHB and such play week in and week out. 


Good Luck this week Tomcats!!!

[oldtimer4774]

It would be interesting to find out if Grove City actually awarded more solo tackles in any games last year than was possible for the game!?!?

[Pat Coleman]

What W&J did last year in the playoffs was against the teams the NCAA scheduled them to play.  Period.

Northern tier (2-0), southern tier (0-1).

Sure. But you tried to claim advancing to the quarterfinals proved the northern tier teams WERE great shakes.

Perhaps contributing your appearance fees for ESPN's 15 minutes of appearing to care about D-III could persuade the NCAA to delete that provision from the RULES.

Gladly. That's zero dollars. Thanks for paying ... err, playing.

By the way, to the tackle mongers, I'm pretty sure that kickoffs, punts, interceptions and the like all require tackles.

[Pat Coleman]

I am not at all suggesting that this happened in the TMC vs TC game as I have no idea. I do know that the original NCAA play by play released after the game said that Carlisle had 14 tackles, then by the time it hit the web he had 18 tackles posted (teams watch the tape and adjust the tackle chart then submit the "official" tackle chart so this means that the TMC coaches found 4 additional tackles that the game statistician must have missed). Game statisticians make errors and perhaps they did in his case as well.

Interesting -- I believe the NCAA's guidelines on tackle stats prohibit this very type of adjustment, if I understand what you're describing. We called a couple schools on it last year, one a very prominent program.

[rabriggs]

2004 GROVE CITY TACKLE BREAKDOWN

2004 Manchester  
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/04mangro.htm
36 solo tackles: 28 completions + 33 rush attempts

at CMU
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/fb0402.htm
39 solo: 45 rush att + 8 completions

Wooster
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/04growoo.htm
30 solo: 47 rush att + 9 completions

at Muhlenberg
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/04gromuh.htm
45 solo: 52 rush att + 8 completions

at Bethany
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/04grobet.htm
39 solo: 32 rush att + 17 completions

Thiel
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/04thigro.htm
30 solo: 44 rush att + 9 completions

at Wash. and Jeff.
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/04wjgro.htm
44 solo: 43 rush att + 23 completions

at Waynesburg
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/04groway.htm
52 solo: 38 rush att + 21 completions

Alfred
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/fb0409.htm
35 solo: 39 rush att + 13 completions

Westminster
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/04growes.htm
25 solo: 47 rush att + 4 completions

[Bob.Gregg]

Sure. But you tried to claim advancing to the quarterfinals proved the northern tier teams WERE great shakes.

So now making the national quarterfinals (Elite Eight) is no great shake? 

Gladly. That's zero dollars. Thanks for paying ... err, playing.

One serious note:  You, Pat Coleman, have ALWAYS put your money where your mouth is in regards to promoting D-III athletics. There's no mistake about that!

[Pat Coleman]

Bob, the point is you're trying to say the northern tier was impressive because it made the national quarterfinals. My point is that someone from the northern tier HAD to make the national quarterfinals because the bracket was seeded that way. Kudos to W&J for being the team that did it ... but it doesn't prove the strength of the northern tier.

I would agree to some extent with Pat's assertion. Of course, the northern tier teams weren't thought to be any great shakes last year, and the Presidents went to the National quarterfinals.

[spliskin]

By the way, to the tackle mongers, I'm pretty sure that kickoffs, punts, interceptions and the like all require tackles.

Good point!

[Bob.Gregg]

That's fine.

I just got the release from the NCAA Championships office:  "Let it be known by all that the 2004 NCAA Division III National Football playoffs were really made up of 3 1/2 regions.

The regional finalists (formerly Elite Eight) from here on out will be known as the "Super Seven and W&J".  Sure, the Presidents won two playoff games, but they were really more like ECAC Bowls, and not really playoffs.  

So, CNU & Bridgewater, we hoped you enjoyed the scenery on the way to and from Washington for your also-ran games.  You weren't really all that great, and neither was the team you played.  But, the South 1/2 region needed somebody to play in the Finals.

We hope this change doesn't cause any inconvenience.  And, because of our Geography over Seeding policy isn't likely to change this century, we are comtemplating also doing the same thing in the East Region.

Perhaps, the missing 1/2 of the South could play the missing 1/2 of the East in the National Quarterfinals.  The winner could then be seeded to face the top team in the National Semifinals, while seeds 2 & 3 slug it out.

We'll get back to you on that."

Sincerely,

The NCAA Competition Committee

[Pat Coleman]

Well, yes, that's basically the result of a penny-pinching bracket.

[spliskin]

Interesting -- I believe the NCAA's guidelines on tackle stats prohibit this very type of adjustment, if I understand what you're describing. We called a couple schools on it last year, one a very prominent program.

Pat,

Let me restate so not to jump to conclusions again. The printed version of the NCAA play by play on the game in question credited the player in question with 14 total tackles. By the time it hit the web it was up to 18 total tackles. How that change came about I have no idea. Perhaps the game statistician realized an error and made the change before it went to the web. I just assumed it was adjusted by the TMC staff and have no evidence to that fact. The Thiel SID (who I believe was in charge of the stats at the game) may have made the adjustment to the tackle chart. I am not accusing anyone of anything and now regret I even brought up this entire subject. Holy avalanche Batman!

[Dutch12]

Well I guess it's a good thing UMHB didn't win it all last year.  We would have had to discuss the unfortunate asterisk to the championship.  ** "Please be aware UMHB did have a competitive advantage in the latter stages of the D3 tourney due to the fact that they only had to deafeat W&J in the quarterfinals."  At least we avoided that controversy.   

[Cleveland Cartel]

Spliskin,

I'm not sure what your point is but I wasn't suggesting that a team can't have 2+ guys with 100+ tackles over a season. Obviously they can. What I am referring to is this:

Spliskin you need to realize what was and is being presented.  It was not about proving you wrong or right or about having two guys with 100 or more tackles on a team.  Just presenting some interesting facts from the PAC over the last 4 years.

I was putting up the facts and actually I thought those facts might of helped what you were trying to prove about grove city padding the stats.  I showed the last 4 years only two other linebackers had 100 tackles on the year both from W&J.  Choby did it last year easily with 107. 
Let's think about this:
Spliskin believes GCC pads Stats.
I chose Choby as the example with over 107 last year.
In the last 4 years only two gentlmen have done that from the PAC.

I believe I was the only one here trying to help you plead your case!

You are a football fan there are traditionally 12-15 special teams plays a game.  Usually on Punt and Punt Return your defensive guys stay on for protection.

PS: Welcome to the board

Theres no need for that.

[Pat Coleman]

Let me restate so not to jump to conclusions again. The printed version of the NCAA play by play on the game in question credited the player in question with 14 total tackles. By the time it hit the web it was up to 18 total tackles. How that change came about I have no idea. Perhaps the game statistician realized an error and made the change before it went to the web. I just assumed it was adjusted by the TMC staff and have no evidence to that fact. The Thiel SID (who I believe was in charge of the stats at the game) may have made the adjustment to the tackle chart. I am not accusing anyone of anything and now regret I even brought up this entire subject. Holy avalanche Batman!

Actually, I think there's something else in play here. According to the box score, Carlisle has 10 solo and eight assisted tackles. Some versions of the stat software will list that as 14 total tackles (solo plus one-half of assists). Some will list that as 18.

[Cleveland Cartel]

Pat,

Big weekend for you and I as The Central Dutch's are playing at a well rested Wartburg team!!

We will see how this plays out should be a solid game though!