FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference

[the_burghboy]

For those of you who are still wondering why W&J attempted a fake kick, here is an article about it from the local paper.
http://www.observer-reporter.com/OR/Story/11_18_W_amp_J_NCW_game_story

Copied from the ASC Board.

I agree with Coach Sirianni's call.  Go for it!

I didn't have a problem with going for two.  What I did have a problem with was the attempted deception of the call, and not having your best players making it.

It smelled of Walt Harris. 

[Big O]

I don't see how anyone can say the PAC is the strongest league around? How do you define around?
If PAC teams want to do better than one and done in the playoffs, they need to take a hard look at how they differ from the competition...perhaps look at the OAC.
Even if you discount MUC, what do Ohio Northern, BW and John Carroll have that W&J, GCC and Waynesburg do not?
Is it facilities? Is it financial aid (I know there's no athletic money)? Is it academics? Is it tradition?

[Bill McCabe]

For those of you who are still wondering why W&J attempted a fake kick, here is an article about it from the local paper.
http://www.observer-reporter.com/OR/Story/11_18_W_amp_J_NCW_game_story

Copied from the ASC Board.

I agree with Coach Sirianni's call.  Go for it!

I didn't have a problem with going for two.  What I did have a problem with was the attempted deception of the call, and not having your best players making it.

It smelled of Walt Harris. 

I agree with you the_burghboy, go for 2 with your best players.  I was really surprised by what I read in the article.

[Cleveland Cartel]

Burgh Boy,

What a call at the end of the game.  I did not know that was how the game ended. 

I agree with a 2 point conversation put all your best players in.  Spread those recievers out 4 wide and let Bob Swallow do the rest. 

Of Course were Monday Quarterbacking here.

[Cleveland Cartel]

Big O,

I dont know whose post you are referring to. In my post I stated the PAC wasn't the Strongest by any means.

And gave Facts as to why I don't think it is very strong. 

Has the conference become more competitive.  Yes

Are we the Strongest Around. Noway.

[the_burghboy]

I don't see how anyone can say the PAC is the strongest league around? How do you define around?
If PAC teams want to do better than one and done in the playoffs, they need to take a hard look at how they differ from the competition...perhaps look at the OAC.
Even if you discount MUC, what do Ohio Northern, BW and John Carroll have that W&J, GCC and Waynesburg do not?
Is it facilities? Is it financial aid (I know there's no athletic money)? Is it academics? Is it tradition?

I don't know who this is in reference to, but I have two words in reply:

Conference Schmonference.

Okay, I guess I'll follow up

Mount Union could be in the OAC, PAC, or any "AC" and still have won their national titles in my opinion.  I don't see a whole lot of 'nailbiters' the last several years in conference play from MUC, and anyone outside of fans of their opponents probably know much about them. 

In my four years I probably had my pads off by the third quarter more than I played an actual PAC opponent for a full game, and that  was probably when we traveled and didn't have enough bodies available.  That didn't help or hurt us in postseason play in my opinion. 

Conference strength isn't as important as having superior talent, coaching, and knowing how to execute both on game day. 

Again, don't get me wrong:  I'm all for a stronger PAC, but more for my own 'fan value' now, and not at the expense of the W&J program slipping in it's national stature, which I think this weekend helped to grease the skids.

[crufootball]

Just in case you weren't there, here is the infamous fake kick on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bky3xDcDKxg

[Ralph Turner]

Just in case you weren't there, here is the infamous fake kick on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bky3xDcDKxg

Please look at the video.

The outermost right Wesley defender is in the backfield so quickly, that I think that he blocks the kick, if he doesn't run past the trajectory of the ball before the ball gets there.  IMHO, that is why he is able to tackle the kicker so quickly!

[EC Warrior]

Still I think it was a horrible call.  I have no problem going for two, especially because your D has already given up 35 points.  But Sirianni had a chance to take the game out of his defense's hand and give it the game to Swallow.  He put his whole season on the legs of his kicker, not his foot, his running ability.  Just put the O out on the field.

There was also just no blocking whatsoever on the FG/XP point all day.  If they couldn't block for a kick, how did he expect them to block for a run.   

[Bob.Gregg]

I've stayed off the "good call/bad call" issues for a while so as not to diminish what NCW did Saturday--make enough plays to win the game.

W&J, whether themselves or because of NCW, suffered complete systems failure Saturday afternoon.

Inability to protect Bobby Swallow.
Inability to pressure Cedric Townsend
Inability to defend the rush.
Inability to scrimmage kick.
Inability to cover kickoffs.

I have numerous questions about Saturday, the most pressing in my mind:
1) Why change offensive sets on 1st & goal at the 2 with 4 mins. left?  The shotgun offense, almost exclusively, has you 10-0 for the season, and tied 28-28 late in the first playoff game.  Why go under center now? And why three times...

2) Why, once you've decided to go for two, do you not put a national top-5 offense out and simply go for it?  As fast as the W&J kicker showed himself to be on the blocked PAT, he's not your best offensive choice.

I was immediately transported/timewarped to Bradenton, FL in 1992.  Trailing by four with time running out, the Presidents elected to have thier (at-the-time) all-time leading rusher THROW the ball, intending an endzone pass for their (at-the-time) all-time leading PASSER...  It went off his fingertips, fell incomplete and UW-LaCrosse celebrated their Stagg Bowl win.

I have absolutely no problem with going for two.  I have called games, particularly under two coaches who have the identical philosophy.  If possible, you want to have your hands on the ball when the final outcome is decided.  You want to give yourself your best opportunity to make that determination.

I think the Presidents failed, not in going for two, but for not GOING for it!  Despite the shortcomings listed above, this W&J defense actually gave the team a chance to win it.  The special teams failures, and the decisions that twice left the offense empty-handed will be the story of the 2007 Presidents Football team.  Too bad!

[Pat Coleman]

I agree after two blocked kicks that it's prudent to go for two.

I think the Presidents failed, not in going for two, but for not GOING for it! 

By this do you mean not going for two straight up, rather than using a trick play? It's hard to argue against that assessment. Didn't seem like the element of surprise was worth going with a gadget play and they should've just lined up and gone for it.

I know, 20-20 hindsight is easy. 

[Bob.Gregg]

Hindsight is 20/20.

Deciding to go for two to win the game right now, I would have put my offense on the field and gone for it.  By my calculations, the W&J offense averaged 5.07 yards per play for the game.

The scrimmage kick unit had already seen one PAT and one FG blocked, one from each side.  I gotta take my chances with the O, the nation's 3rd-highest producing unit.

The defense was the suspect unit most of the season with this squad, along with KO coverage.  Giving the offense the chance to win it keeps the D on the sideline.

And, to be totally transparent in this discussion, I've never played a down of football in my life, save quite a few Turkey Bowl and backyard games.  I don't know what it takes to keep the crazed, frothing-at-the-mouth beast on the other side of the line from turning my 165-pound kicker into a hamburger, nor what it takes to throw the ball around, over or through the same behemoth's charge.

[EC Warrior]

I completlely agree Bob, I seemed like Sirianni almost didn't know if he wanted to kick it or fake it.  I love the call to go for 2, hate the actual play call.  His quote was that "it worked in practice."  I held for 3 years and every fake we ran in practice worked.  I'm sure that's the case at every school in the country.  That to me made it seem like he had no clue what he was doing.

At the same time, if Swallow throws an incomplete pass, will it make this loss any better?  I'm not sure.  Still all the credit goes to NCW.

[the_burghboy]

Still I think it was a horrible call.  I have no problem going for two, especially because your D has already given up 35 points.  But Sirianni had a chance to take the game out of his defense's hand and give it the game to Swallow.  He put his whole season on the legs of his kicker, not his foot, his running ability.  Just put the O out on the field.

There was also just no blocking whatsoever on the FG/XP point all day.  If they couldn't block for a kick, how did he expect them to block for a run.   

Exactly.  As sad as it was they actually had to be in that position to begin with, well, I can only hope that not only players grow through those experiences, but also the coach.

I'm just irritated that I actually have to take my family to the Pitt/South Florida bloodbath Saturday instead of another W&J home playoff game, which are usually the few games worth attending anymore. 

I think I'll just try to stay home and rake the leaves. 

P.S.  Walt Harris said that hindsight was 50/50.  Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Darkside90]

BIGERN,


Your posts always make me crack up.  I'll help you out with some positive Karma.

CC,
That's really nice of you.  Maybe now he won't CRRRRYYYYY  so much!!!!!

Oh no!  If he reads this he'll start crying again, and all your charity would have been for nothing.