FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference

[South Willy]

St. Vincent is only in it's second season with the PAC and I'm sure they drew Bethany to make the game as competitve as possible. Hopefully they'll have a good game and its on to basketball for both schools.

[Ralph Turner]

Thanks, guys!

That is really informative.

This weekend really strengthens the PresAC.

[SaintsFAN]

Fellas,

Honestly, several of TMC's football alums were talking in the past week.  We'd rather (to a man) have Thomas More defeat Mount St. Joe, than have any success in the playoffs.  Sounds crazy, I know... but both schools started football the same year.  It was a race to arm the football teams, if you will.  We won this.  Thomas More so thoroughly dominated the series that Mount St Joe ENDED it after the 1995 thrashing we gave them (62-27).  That was my freshman year and it was only that close because we played the freshman for the entire 2nd half.  Current Thomas More Coach Jim Hilvert's brother, TJ was QB for MSJ and he was caught in the newspaper saying the wrong things.  Well, his 3rd play of the game was his last and it openned the floodgates.  As a result of this game, MSJ wouldn't play us until they didn't suck. 

They finally met us on the field again in 1999--in the form of a scrimmage.  They mustered up the courage for that scrimmage because of our 3-7 record in 1998.  We finally got back on the field to play the game in 2002.  The had to "find" the Bridge Bowl that was stolen from the Thomas More trophy case.  We literally had been using it for a punch bowl at parties..  the Bowl was left on the goaline the morning of the game.  We won the 2002 game in convincing fashion and some of the people from MSJ thought we had muddied the field on purpose to slow them down (had they played us since 1999, they'd have known that late in the season it became a mud pit.  Its been a see-saw battle ever since..  This year should be another classic.

I would say, hopefully the kids are reading this at Thomas More, but it doesn't matter.  They know... Trust me.

[formerd3db]

SaintsFAN:

Thanks and see my reply to yours over on the HCAC board (i.e. your other board )

[rabriggs]

This is the schedule for the PresAC proclaimed "Rivalry Week".

Nov. 15       1:00 PM     Thiel           Grove City                         
              1:00 PM    St. Vincent       Bethany          
      
              1:30 PM    Washington and Jefferson       Waynesburg          
      
              1:30 PM    Mount St. Joseph       Thomas More    (Bridge Bowl)            
              1:30 PM    Westminster (Pa.)       Geneva

On the rivalries board, I read about Westminster PA and Geneva.  I know about the Bridge Bowl between MSJ and TMC.

How intense are the remaining rivalries?  Is each really the most intense rivalry that your school has?  Is there another game that most of your fans think is a stronger rivalry?  Or, did W&J-Waynesburg trump some other rivalry?

Thanks for info.   

At Grove City, I know that a lot of our older alumni talk about the great rivalries with Westminster and Geneva that we've been able to resume this decade.

Of the "Rivalry Week" games being played this weekend, Grove City and Thiel have the longest continuous series as the teams have played every year since 1982. The Mercer County Cup came into existence in 1984, which was also Grove City's first year in the Presidents' Athletic Conference.

The Grove City-Thiel rivalry dates back to 1892. I think over the past several years the Cup has really evolved into something of great significance as it's become ingrained in both programs.

Westminster and Geneva first played in 1891. In its heyday, back in the NAIA, the rivalry may very well have been the most intense in small-college football. As Geneva continues its move into full NCAA Division III membership, that rivalry will really be ratcheted up again.

Waynesburg-W&J dates back to 1897. I would probably agree with Bob Gregg's current evaluation of the rivalries. This one is referred to as the PAC's Backyard Brawl, but I think it's a lot more like Alabama-Auburn than Pitt-WVU.

Throughout the 1990s, when the PAC was just a five-team league, every game seemed like a "rival" game because so much was at stake every time the game started. With just a four-game football schedule (8 in basketball, volleyball, etc.) there was no margin for error at all.

As one who remembers the league in these years (and I think Mr. Gregg will concur), it is great that the conference has expanded greatly to the size that a Rivalry Week is now possible.

[Bob.Gregg]

ra,

There is much truth to what you wrote, but to say "every game seemed like a rival game" would not be accurate.

Back in the day, League rules limited the number of players road teams could dress.  Several times, when W&J was leading by 45+ at the half, some of the guys who didn't dress in the first half were dressed and played the second half.  The clock ran, sort of like the current high school "mercy rule".  There was nothing about those games that said "rivalry".

[SaintsFAN]

Bob,

I think he probably meant for every other team...not W&J.  Especially if they knew that game against the Presidents was a loss... jockeying position for #2?

[rabriggs]

I was thinking more of the mid-to-late 90s, say 1996-2001. You are correct, back when the PAC limited travel squads, there were some ugly scores rung up. I'm curious as to when that practice was phased out.

[the_burghboy]

I was in the early 90's, and they were limited then also. 

In some games, you tried to not show up the other teams late in games, but was 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' in some regards due to the limited people you could travel.

I remember a game in Bethany where Wide Recievers were trying to learn three point stances late in games because the reserve defensive ends were still making tackles behind the line of scrimmage. 

Another memory was a young reserve Quarterback seeing a coverage, and was so excited he recognized it, checked into a pass play that went for a score.   He struggled all year with reading defenses in practice, and came to the sideline thinking he would get the coaches approval for finally checking into the right play, only to get chewed out. 

Sorry for the 'war stories', but I think it's good they don't have those limitations now.

[SaintsFAN]

Go Wisconsin LAX. 

I believe that there's a 50/50 chance they beat Wisc Stevens Point.  I'm not sure what all needs to happen for W&J to get on the "table of discussion" for the committee, but good luck none-the-less. 

[Bob.Gregg]

Hampden-Sydney or Catholic losing would be a good start.
Whitewater or Stevens Point losing wouldn't hurt.
Ithaca losing would help.
Montclair loss would clarify picture.
Perhaps a John Carroll win over Otterbein.

All of that doesn't have to happen, but it wouldn't hurt the Presidents' chances if it did!  Even a couple of them would get the Red&Black on the table.  Then, you take your shot.

[Ralph Turner]

Waco Suspension Bridge was designed by Roebling in 1870 and is 475 long.  Getting raw materials to Waco was a Herculean effort.  (The Waco Bridge is single span.)

Roebling Suspension Bridge in Cincinnati is longer, but the Ohio River was much closer to the manufacturing centers of the country.

NCAA press release about the Bridge Bowl.

[SaintsFAN]

Article on Bridge Bowl.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081115/SPT01/811150401/1062/SPT

Bethany Head Coach Tim Weaver had a "Lou Holtz moment" this week, in talking up his team's opponent in "The Green Game":

"Saint Vincent is by far the most improved team in the conference," said Weaver. "It's night and day when looking at them from last year. Like us, they've been competitive with a lot of teams in the conference this year. They deserve a lot of credit for what they've been able to do."

[SaintsFAN]

Mount St. Joe 0
Thomas More 19  F

It wasn't even this close.  MSJ's offense was bad, bad, bad.  Collier again saved the day for the Saints on a terrible weather day.  MSJ had one run that got them to TMC's 35 on their first drive, after that...nothing to speak of. 

My prevailing thought is that football is a rough game... perhaps, Kendall Owens can play next week after being knocked out of the game on a cheap shot.  I know Rod Huber doesn't condone this kind of dirty play, so it will be interesting to see what happens as a result.  Just remember, unless MSJ drops TMC again from the schedule, we'll deal with the Lions on the field.  Just like today.  I'm not calling out any names on the MSJ defense but a couple guys were talking alot...despite being down so many points.  They let emotion get the best of them....did Thomas More talk?  Yes... but they played legally and between the whistles.  Coach Hilvert's team is to be commended for taking care of business and not letting an emotional team with nothing to play for ... get to them.  Maybe next year if Pat asks me to talk about games in week 11, I'm going to mention the new lows the rivalry got to today.  In fact, you can bet on it.



there's going to be a major shakeup among playoff teams... early game scores show Wabash losing the Monon Bell game, and Moravian has defeated Muhlenburg.  The Mules still get in, but probably as a #6-8 seed.  Before there was talk of them being moved east (mostly by their own fans) to be a #1 seed.  St John Fisher is also out after losing at Alfred today.. they were Pool A if they won.. lost too many games to get in as a "C"

[Bob.Gregg]

Hampden-Sydney or Catholic losing would be a good start.  BOTH did!
Whitewater or Stevens Point losing wouldn't hurt.  NOPE
Ithaca losing would help.   No, but the SJF loss might have helped more
Montclair loss would clarify picture.  Clearly
Perhaps a John Carroll win over Otterbein.

All of that doesn't have to happen, but it wouldn't hurt the Presidents' chances if it did!  Even a couple of them would get the Red&Black on the table.  Then, you take your shot.

RPI bowed out too.  And the beatdown goes on!