The Undefeated and the Winless

[Gregory Sager]

Not to short-circuit the theological/historical discussion, but I have a different 'oddity' to raise: how did the two premier scientific schools (MIT and Caltech) diverge so dramatically in their athletic fortunes (or at least men's bball - I know nothing about either school's fortunes otherwise)?  One is still on the undefeated vs. d3 list; the other is still (and seems destined to remain) on the winless list.  Their overall student bodies are drawn from the same (small) pool; why such a dramatic difference in their men's bball pool?

Both schools are extremely competitive to get into.  With that said, MIT has many more students apply to the university, and although they have somewhat comparable acceptance rates, MIT carries more students per class.  Caltech's total undergraduate enrollment is under 1000, meaning class sizes of no more than 250.  MIT on the other hand has yearly classes of 1000+ (which is supposed to expand by 10% or so over the next few years with the construction of a new freshman dormitory).  I would say that is probably the largest obstacle for Coach Eslinger.  Neither school is going to give the Coach picks, but Caltech is even more difficult to be accepted to (although it can vary because each school has slightly different things they look for in students, so it is not imperceivable to be accepted to one and not the other).

On top of that, both schools are competing for the same pool of highly accomplished academic students (along with the Ivies) and now that MIT has made quite a big splash on the d3 scene, more players seem to be interested in the program.  For example, MIT has two freshman from the Southern California area this year: Wil Tashmen, who is their starting power forward and Devin Dee, who is seeing very limited minutes but likely could have been a starter for Caltech (he was accepted to both schools, I believe). 

In addition to that, MIT recently changed their finanacial aid structure which makes tuition essentially free if your household income is below six figures.  I am not sure if that has swayed any potential players yet, as it was just in the last year or two that that change was made, but it could potentially attract some students who in the past would not have the opportunity to afford an MIT education.

It also cannot be understated that Coach Anderson is a really great coach and recruiter.  He is a master at defensive coaching and really stresses that aspect of the game, because for years his teams didnt have very much offensive talent.  Now that he is starting to get some more complete players, you are seeing what kind of things they can accomplish.  Coach Eslinger has much of the same qualities as Coach Anderson and learned a lot by being on his staff for almost a decade.  I am sure with more time he will get things turned around, he is only in his second year and this class is the first one he had an opportunity to recruit.

I am sure there are some other reasons but they are not coming to me right now.  Caltech also has some things going for them.  In terms of locations, Pasadena is amazing.  Boston,  though, is an amazing sports and college town in general, so some students may be looking for that.

I don't know how the MIT admissions process works, but I can tell you that the Caltech admissions process is a massive obstacle for Coach Eslinger and the Beavers to overcome. It may be, for all I know, an obstacle that's unique among the D3 ranks. This is taken from Caltech's admissions page:

Evaluating
After we have thoroughly read your application, we will determine whether you are a competitive candidate. If so, we will pass your application on to faculty and then to current undergraduates who are members of the Undergraduate Admissions Committee. They have been trained to read applications and offer great insight as to whether candidates are a good fit for Caltech. Faculty from different fields read research papers, and students are very familiar with different high school activities.

Once all the applications have been read, committees made up of admissions counselors, faculty, administrators, and current students will meet to discuss competitive applicants.

In other words, faculty members have input -- and thus veto power -- over applicants to Caltech. While Caltech does positively recognize high-school extracurricular activities among its applicants, just like any other college or university, athletics isn't necessarily seen as being any more of a plus than playing in the jazz band or volunteering for Meals On Wheels -- and, given the anti-athlete prejudices that, let's be honest, are fairly common among academicians, it's possible that student-athletes are viewed with an even more critical eye than are other applicants in the admissions process. And students get input, too -- and if you get some nerdy kid on the committee who received wedgies or swirlies from the football players at his high school or was forced to cough up his lunch money on a regular basis, say goodbye to getting your prized jock prospect admitted into the next freshman class.

It's the kind of flaming hoop through which no college coach in his right mind would ever want to jump.

[Hugenerd]

Coach Anderson doesnt get any picks either.  The only thing he can do for each of his recruits is to write a letter to the admissions office on their behalf (essentially a recommendation letter) and just wait to see what happens.  MIT also views all extra-curricular activities equal and does not give preference to athletes.  I really think the main obstacles that Caltech has compared to MIT is the class size and convincing athletes that are used to winning to come to a program that is notorious for losing (a lot).  Every class in recent memories has a graduating record of 5-95 or worse, that is not very appealing when you can go to other good schools (MIT or UAA schools) and actually win games and expect to make post-season play.

[OxyBob]

Coach Eslinger has much of the same qualities as Coach Anderson and learned a lot by being on his staff for almost a decade.  I am sure with more time he will get things turned around, he is only in his second year and this class is the first one he had an opportunity to recruit.

I have followed Caltech basketball for a long time. Row Dow didn't turn anything around, and Doc Eslinger isn't going to turn anything around. CIT hasn't won a SCIAC game in 25 years -- 287 straight losses -- and tonight the Beavers start the conference season at Cal Lutheran on their way to 301 straight SCIAC losses. Welcome to Caltech basketball.

OxyBob

[Hugenerd]

Coach Eslinger has much of the same qualities as Coach Anderson and learned a lot by being on his staff for almost a decade.  I am sure with more time he will get things turned around, he is only in his second year and this class is the first one he had an opportunity to recruit.

I have followed Caltech basketball for a long time. Row Dow didn't turn anything around, and Doc Eslinger isn't going to turn anything around. CIT hasn't won a SCIAC game in 25 years -- 287 straight losses -- and tonight the Beavers start the conference season at Cal Lutheran on their way to 301 straight SCIAC losses. Welcome to Caltech basketball.

OxyBob

I dont think they will this season, but I think they will end that streak in the next 2-3 years.  I think Coach Eslinger has a better idea of how to recruit the types of players he needs at Caltech after being on the staff for 7 years at MIT.

[magicman]

Bethany Lutheran comes off Winless list, Beating Crown 93-78

Winless list now down to 8


and Magicman,   Canton beats Johnson State???

hopefan,
Yes they did, 73-72 in overtime on Potsdam State's home court. Not sure why they are playing a home game at Jerry Welsh Gym but see they do it again in an upcoming game against Fisher College. Must be they need to accomadate those large crowds that the Kangaroos are pushing through the turnstiles.  Actually they play some games at Clarkson's Alumni Gym as well so it appears they don't have their own gym. Thought it was their 1st win of the season but forgot they beat Morrisville State back inj November also in OT.  With 2 games left to play agains Paul Smiths and 2 more against UMPI they should have at least 6 wins this year.

[Pat Coleman]

Thanks for the heads-up. Not surprisingly, no word from ENC on the subject.

You must not be on the school's current mailing list.  I got about fifty seven surveys regarding it, plus two email announcements when they made the change. 

Well, I'm not an alumnus.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Thanks for the heads-up. Not surprisingly, no word from ENC on the subject.

You must not be on the school's current mailing list.  I got about fifty seven surveys regarding it, plus two email announcements when they made the change. 

Well, I'm not an alumnus.

Exactly, I guess I was trying to say, if you're waiting for the Athletic Department to announce it, you might be waiting a while.

[Hugenerd]

Coach Eslinger has much of the same qualities as Coach Anderson and learned a lot by being on his staff for almost a decade.  I am sure with more time he will get things turned around, he is only in his second year and this class is the first one he had an opportunity to recruit.

I have followed Caltech basketball for a long time. Row Dow didn't turn anything around, and Doc Eslinger isn't going to turn anything around. CIT hasn't won a SCIAC game in 25 years -- 287 straight losses -- and tonight the Beavers start the conference season at Cal Lutheran on their way to 301 straight SCIAC losses. Welcome to Caltech basketball.

OxyBob

I dont think they will this season, but I think they will end that streak in the next 2-3 years.  I think Coach Eslinger has a better idea of how to recruit the types of players he needs at Caltech after being on the staff for 7 years at MIT.

I meant to mention this in my previous post, but I forgot to: Coach Anderson won 4 and 3 games, respectively, in his first two years as the coach at MIT.  Since then he has had 13 consecutive years of double-digit wins (including this year).  That includes winning seasons 6 of the last 8 years (only 1 in his first 6) and 20+ win seasons 2 of the last 4 seasons (none in his first 10).  In summary, Coach Anderson has progressively done better with more years at the helm of the program.  Give Coach Eslinger another year or two and I think Caltech will begin to win games, and then progressively improve from there.  If anyone has the tools to turnaround Caltech, it is Coach Eslinger with his experience at MIT under similar constraints.

[toooldtoplay]

I wish him good luck but he will need a bit of help from admissions. All think being nearly equal you need to bring in the athletes not the mathletes to compete. Depends on priorities.  I always believed that the high level academic schools need some decent athletics to create a sense of "normal" for the overall college experience for a percentage of the student body.

[Gregory Sager]

Coach Anderson doesnt get any picks either.  The only thing he can do for each of his recruits is to write a letter to the admissions office on their behalf (essentially a recommendation letter) and just wait to see what happens.  MIT also views all extra-curricular activities equal and does not give preference to athletes.

Yes, but does MIT give the faculty and students the same gatekeeping capacity as does Caltech in the admissions process? That's my whole point. Caltech's coaches have to get their prospects past constituencies with veto power who are frequently noted for their antipathy to student-athletes.

[hopefan]

Through Jan 9
UNDEFEATED (2)   

Medaille   AMCC   EAST
Randolph-Macon   ODAC   SOUTH

WINLESS  (8)   (UMPI Grandfathered in)   
New York City Tech   CUNYAC   ATL
Cazenovia   NEAC   EAST
FDU-Florham   MACF   MA
Bluffton   HCAC   MW
Maine-Farmington   NAC   NE
Methodist   USAC   SOUTH
Caltech   SCIAC   WEST
Maine-Presque Isle   NAIA-D2   
Bethany Lutheran out with win over Crown

Undefeated vs D3 Only   (lost to a non-D3) (4)   
MIT  NEWMAC   NE
Eastern Mennonite   ODAC   SOUTH
Linfield   NWC   WEST
Occidental   SCIAC   WEST



Winless vs D3 only  (they've beat a non D3)  (11)   was at (12)

Morrisville State   NEAC   EAST
Potsdam State   SUNYAC   EAST
Alma   MIAA   GL
Waynesburg   PrAC   GL
Dickinson   CC   MA
Marywood   CSAC   MA
Philadelphia Bible   CSAC   MA
Maranatha Baptist   NATHC   MW
Blackburn   SLIAC   MW
Maine Maritime   NAC   NE
Texas Lutheran   ASC   SOUTH

Penn State Abington   out with win over winless Cazenovia 84-69

[hopefan]

Guys - I'll be out of town on a big birthday trip and may not have internet access (unless I pay $15/day) - so you may not hear from me until Friday.

[OxyBob]

I meant to mention this in my previous post, but I forgot to: Coach Anderson won 4 and 3 games, respectively, in his first two years as the coach at MIT.  Since then he has had 13 consecutive years of double-digit wins (including this year).  That includes winning seasons 6 of the last 8 years (only 1 in his first 6) and 20+ win seasons 2 of the last 4 seasons (none in his first 10).  In summary, Coach Anderson has progressively done better with more years at the helm of the program.  Give Coach Eslinger another year or two and I think Caltech will begin to win games, and then progressively improve from there.  If anyone has the tools to turnaround Caltech, it is Coach Eslinger with his experience at MIT under similar constraints.

If he hangs around long enough Doc Eslinger will have double-digit career wins at CIT around 2020. If he's lucky.

OxyBob

[Hugenerd]

Coach Anderson doesnt get any picks either.  The only thing he can do for each of his recruits is to write a letter to the admissions office on their behalf (essentially a recommendation letter) and just wait to see what happens.  MIT also views all extra-curricular activities equal and does not give preference to athletes.

Yes, but does MIT give the faculty and students the same gatekeeping capacity as does Caltech in the admissions process? That's my whole point. Caltech's coaches have to get their prospects past constituencies with veto power who are frequently noted for their antipathy to student-athletes.

I am not sure about the veto process, but Coach Eslinger got a few guys in this year (2-3) and if he continues to get 3 guys each year that can play, that is enough to make up a team.  I dont think he will ever have a wealth of depth, but I think it is not impossible for him to put a competitive team together.

[Pat Coleman]

NYC Tech off the winless list, beat St. Joseph's (Bklyn) 78-59.