The Undefeated and the Winless

hopefan · January 14, 2012, 11:34:22 PM

Grinnell LOSES first, to Carroll, 109-106... falls off undefeated list.

Lyndon State crushed Maine Maritime 81-56, to leap off winless list....

other winless lose....Elmira, Franciscan, Earlham, Principia, Macalester, U of New England, Berry all lose...
NYU-Poly plays tomorrow

Maranatha Bap also loses to stay winless vs D3... LaVerne playing right now.....

dahlby · January 15, 2012, 01:54:00 AM

La Verne over Cal Lu 65 - 53.

hopefan · January 16, 2012, 03:21:10 PM

From D3Hoops site
NYU-Poly 73 SUNY-Old Westbury 52 Final

A little recognition, please

NO NOT SO FAST

From Old Westbury site
1/15/2012 * NYU-Poly Brooklyn, NY W 73-52 (Indicating SUNY OLD Westbury win)

PAT YOU'VE DONE ME IN!!!!!!!

magicman · January 16, 2012, 03:32:11 PM

From the Polytechnic website:

Old Westbury Oulasts Men's Hoops

BROOKLYN, NY - The NYU-Poly Men's Basketball team suffered a Skyline Conference setback Sunday afternoon, falling 73-52 to Old Westbury. The Jays fall to 0-12 overall and 0-7 in the Skyline, while Old Westbury improves to 5-2 in the conference and 8-6 overall

Sorry hopefan, you'll have to wait a little longer for that winless crown.

magicman · January 16, 2012, 03:35:05 PM

I'll update our lists later today.

hopefan · January 17, 2012, 01:44:23 AM

Luther beats Dubuque, 66-44.... Dubuque OFF the undefeated vs D3 list

sac · January 17, 2012, 03:51:35 PM

I went on a statistical quest last night to find the lowest rated team in D3.

Here are 17 of the 18 teams I considered

Baptist Bible
Berry
CCNY
Earlham
Elmira
Franciscan
Green Mountain
Johnson State
Luther
Lyndon State
Maine Maritime
New England
Polytechnic
Principia
PSU Altoona
Southern Vermont
SUNY Cobleskill

I pulled these off the bottom of masseyratings.com. I could not rate Maine-Presque Isle because they wisely have not updated their stats for this season. They also have 3 wins so its unlikely they would be #410 so I'm not bothered by it. I cut off my choices at SUNY-Cobleskill, anyone above that line is probably too good for this, although I added Earlham because they have no wins, but *spoiler alert* their schedule is likely too strong.

I used a basic efficiency formula I've used for some time. Think of it as points per 100 possessions.

From this group the bottom 5 offenses
CCNY 79.44
New England 79.31
Maine-Maritime 74.07
Polytechnic 72.60
Franciscan 71.34

..and the bottom 5 defenses
Lyndon State 114.15
Elmira 114.44
Southern Vermont 114.90
Berry 116.44
SUNY-Cobleskill 117.29

The bottom 5 , combining offense with defense (200-def eff)
Principia 170.40
Elmira 169.30
SUNY-Cobleskill 169.05
Berry 163.06
Franciscan 162.47

Through Sunday, Franciscan is the lowest rated team in D3 based on efficiency. Based on the fact they've played the #404 ranked schedule, a schedule adjustment would make them an even more solid #410.

Here's is their team picture and roster. http://www.franciscanathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/roster

Awesome for a couple reasons. There are 10 players in the picture but only 9 on the roster. Despite being in Steubenville, Ohio, on the border with West Virginia and a stones throw from Pennsylvania, there is not a single player on the team from those 3 states. Seeing John Trabbic from Eric, MI forced me to look up where Eric, MI is located.....there isn't one, I'm sure they mean Erie, but who knows, probably only John.

Franciscan played the first half of their season with just 8 players as two were studying abroad last semester. This caused a problem when 4 players fouled out of one game and Franciscan had to finish with just 4 players.

This is Franciscan's first year as a full fledged D3 member (at least I think it is, the games count for in-region) and it's John Lamanna's first year at the helm. If you get a chance read John's bio, he has some interesting credentials.

Berry is also in its first year as a D3 member their roster lists 9 guards and 1 forward http://www.berryvikings.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/roster.

This should be a close race right to the end of the season. A quick look at the two teams' schedules reveals not many opportunities for either team to improve their rating or even to get a win or two.

magicman · January 17, 2012, 04:15:19 PM

Updated lists:

nwhoops bites the dust and the survivor pool is down to 3 players. Undefeated list is down to 4 teams

Undefeated

Middlebury magicman Next: Hosts Castleton St 1-17
MIT Hugenerd Next: Hosts WPI 1-21
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps stagg44 Next: At Pomona-Pitzer 1-18
~~Franklin & Marshall nwhoops~~
Mary Hardin Baylor Next: At Hardin-Simmons 1-19

Dropped off: Grinnell (Lost at Carroll 109-106 on 1-14), Franklin & Marshall (Lost to Washington College 78-74 on 1-14)

Winless

Principia hopefan Next: Hosts Fontbonne 1-17
Polytechnic PointSpecial Next: At Farmingdale State 1-17
Earlham Next : At Defiance 1-18
Elmira Next: At ithaca 1-20
Franciscan Next: Hosts Pitt-Bradford 1-21
Univ. of New England Next: At Eastern Nazarene 1-17
Berry Next: At Piedmont 1-17
Martin Luther Next: At Presentation 1-20

Dropped off: Lyndon State (Defeated Maine Maritime 81-56 on 1-14)

Undefeated vs D3 Only (with a loss to a non D3)

Hope Next: Hosts Calvin on 1-18

Dropped off: Dubuque (Lost to Luther 66-44 on 1-16

Winless vs D3 Only (with a win against non D3)

Maranatha Baptist Next: At Edgewood 1-17

Dropped off: La Verne (Defeats Cal-Lutheran 65-53 on 1-14)

smedindy · January 17, 2012, 04:17:28 PM

Three of the nine Franciscan players were home-schooled as well. I know they have organized home-school teams now, but still they may be at a disadvantage in player development.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) · January 17, 2012, 04:25:24 PM

Sac, did you mean the University of New England or New England College? They're both terribly bad. I assume it to be UNE since they're winless and pathetic, but NEC lost to Albany Pharmacy the other night and it wasn't that close.

sac · January 17, 2012, 04:26:40 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 17, 2012, 04:25:24 PM

Sac, did you mean the University of New England or New England College? They're both terribly bad. I assume it to be UNE since they're winless and pathetic, but NEC lost to Albany Pharmacy the other night and it wasn't that close.

I meant New England College.

New England University fell just outside my arbitrary cut-off.

magicman · January 17, 2012, 04:52:05 PM

Quote from: sac on January 17, 2012, 03:51:35 PM
I went on a statistical quest last night to find the lowest rated team in D3.

Here are 17 of the 18 teams I considered

Baptist Bible
Berry
CCNY
Earlham
Elmira
Franciscan
Green Mountain
Johnson State
Luther
Lyndon State
Maine Maritime
New England
Polytechnic
Principia
PSU Altoona
Southern Vermont
SUNY Cobleskill

I pulled these off the bottom of masseyratings.com. I could not rate Maine-Presque Isle because they wisely have not updated their stats for this season. They also have 3 wins so its unlikely they would be #410 so I'm not bothered by it. I cut off my choices at SUNY-Cobleskill, anyone above that line is probably too good for this, although I added Earlham because they have no wins, but *spoiler alert* their schedule is likely too strong.

I used a basic efficiency formula I've used for some time. Think of it as points per 100 possessions.

From this group the bottom 5 offenses
CCNY 79.44
New England 79.31
Maine-Maritime 74.07
Polytechnic 72.60
Franciscan 71.34

..and the bottom 5 defenses
Lyndon State 114.15
Elmira 114.44
Southern Vermont 114.90
Berry 116.44
SUNY-Cobleskill 117.29

The bottom 5 , combining offense with defense (200-def eff)
Principia 170.40
Elmira 169.30
SUNY-Cobleskill 169.05
Berry 163.06
Franciscan 162.47

Through Sunday, Franciscan is the lowest rated team in D3 based on efficiency. Based on the fact they've played the #404 ranked schedule, a schedule adjustment would make them an even more solid #410.

Here's is their team picture and roster. http://www.franciscanathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/roster

Awesome for a couple reasons. There are 10 players in the picture but only 9 on the roster. Despite being in Steubenville, Ohio, on the border with West Virginia and a stones throw from Pennsylvania, there is not a single player on the team from those 3 states. Seeing John Trabbic from Eric, MI forced me to look up where Eric, MI is located.....there isn't one, I'm sure they mean Erie, but who knows, probably only John.

Franciscan played the first half of their season with just 8 players as two were studying abroad last semester. This caused a problem when 4 players fouled out of one game and Franciscan had to finish with just 4 players.

This is Franciscan's first year as a full fledged D3 member (at least I think it is, the games count for in-region) and it's John Lamanna's first year at the helm. If you get a chance read John's bio, he has some interesting credentials.

Berry is also in its first year as a D3 member their roster lists 9 guards and 1 forward http://www.berryvikings.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/roster.

This should be a close race right to the end of the season. A quick look at the two teams' schedules reveals not many opportunities for either team to improve their rating or even to get a win or two.

sac,
You could have saved yourself a lot of work. All of us in the National Pick 'Em League were convinced that Franciscan was the worst D3 team after they lost to winless (at the time) PSU-Altoona 67-52 on Franciscan's home court. It was one of our games of the week, since they were both winless, and Mr. Ypsi (who made out that week's schedule) suggested, before the final outcome of the game was known, that when they meet again on Feb. 8th I might consider placing the rematch on our schedule of that week. After the game was over KnightSlappy said, "So Franciscan just lost at home to one of the worst teams in D3 by 15 points. That's terrible." And Mr. Ypsi stated, "Yep. I suspect magicman will not select the rematch AT PSU-Altoona on Feb. 8!" They were both right.

In the rematch PSU-Altoona would be the lock of the week in the league. Your research however, did confirm what we already knew.

David Collinge · January 17, 2012, 05:13:17 PM

I fondly recollect that in Dec. 2008, Franciscan beat Hiram 88-80. Hiram went on to finish the season with 16 wins, including two over Wittenberg*, and was a solid third-place (11-5) in the NCAC. I think it was one of if not the most unlikely result of the season according to Massey. Franciscan was just beginning their reclassification to D3, and I had high hopes for the Barons' program. I wonder what Hiram would do to them this season...

*Heh heh. If you click on the link for the Franciscan game from Hiram's 2008-09 season results, you get the box from a win over Witt exactly one year later. Just think happy thoughts!

sac · January 17, 2012, 09:26:53 PM

Quote from: magicman on January 17, 2012, 04:52:05 PM
sac,
You could have saved yourself a lot of work. All of us in the National Pick 'Em League were convinced that Franciscan was the worst D3 team after they lost to winless (at the time) PSU-Altoona 67-52 on Franciscan's home court. It was one of our games of the week, since they were both winless, and Mr. Ypsi (who made out that week's schedule) suggested, before the final outcome of the game was known, that when they meet again on Feb. 8th I might consider placing the rematch on our schedule of that week. After the game was over KnightSlappy said, "So Franciscan just lost at home to one of the worst teams in D3 by 15 points. That's terrible." And Mr. Ypsi stated, "Yep. I suspect magicman will not select the rematch AT PSU-Altoona on Feb. 8!" They were both right. In the rematch PSU-Altoona would be the lock of the week in the league. Your research however, did confirm what we already knew.

I've suspected Franciscan might be the worst for quite some time and have mentioned it in passing on other boards. I just had to check the numbers and be sure, it really isn't that much work and is pretty simple.

David--- according to their 'news' section, Franciscan just named their basketball floor after "Hank" Kuzma who apparently led the College of Steubenville to a National Championship in 1958. Steubenville was voted the #1 small college basketball team by UPI. How's that for random trivia.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) · January 17, 2012, 09:57:05 PM

UNE beat ENC tonight for their first win. Yes, this is how it would have to be.