The Undefeated and the Winless

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Lawrence will probably lose at Carroll, other than that, I think they run the table.  I was impressed with Carroll before this weekend and while I didn't get to Grinnell in time to see them, everybody there said Carroll's team was just as good as Lawrence on offense and pretty close to them on defense.  I think Ripon could give them a challenge this week, but porbably not an upset.  If they can get by Carroll at Carroll, I think they have a legit shot at entering the tournament undefeated.  I sure hope they get one of those byes; they definately deserve it.  I also hope Braier gets significant looks for national POY; he is just so sound.  I never saw him make a mistake in that game and even the crazy GC fanatics speak of him with some measure of reverence.

As far as the winless teams.  I just don't know.  I think they all have winable games left, but how can you know without playing the games.

[smedindy]

Guess what::::

Principia 72, St. Louis Pharmacy (NAIA 2) 67

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Updated:

Undefeated ( 1 )

Lawrence (17-0)

Undefeated vs D3 only ( 1 )

Occidental (15-1)

Winless vs D3 only ( 5 )

Maranatha Baptist (1-18)
Rutgers-Camden (1-17)
Thiel (2-17)
Principia (1-15)
Maine-Presque Isle (1-18)*

Winless ( 4 )

Caltech (0-17)
Daniel Webster (0-17)
Oberlin (0-18)
Green Mountain (0-16)*

*Denotes Provisional School

[Greek Tragedy]

Well, Ripon came close last night, only losing by 3.  I think LU has a great chance to go undefeated with really only a game vs. Carroll in Waukesha the only test left, and probably facing them in the MWC tourney (at the Alex, I'm guessing). 

To enter the NCAA tourney undefeated would be a lot of pressure.  I'd almost want to lose a game to take that pressure off.  I'm sure there have been several teams that have gone undefeated the whole season and won the NCAA tourney (Platteville comes to mind off the top of my head), but we'll see what happens.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Losing to Carroll in the conference tourney final would almost assure that both teams get in the tournament.  I think they'll lose before that though, I think Carroll will hold court at home.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

 Updated:

Undefeated ( 1 )

Lawrence (17-0)

Undefeated vs D3 only ( 1 )

Occidental (16-1)

Winless vs D3 only ( 5 )

Maranatha Baptist (1-18)
Rutgers-Camden (1-18)
Thiel (2-18)
Principia (1-16)
Maine-Presque Isle (1-18)*

Winless ( 4 )

Caltech (0-18)
Daniel Webster (0-18)
Oberlin (0-19)
Green Mountain (0-16)*

*Denotes Provisional School

[Gregory Sager]

To enter the NCAA tourney undefeated would be a lot of pressure.  I'd almost want to lose a game to take that pressure off.  I'm sure there have been several teams that have gone undefeated the whole season and won the NCAA tourney (Platteville comes to mind off the top of my head), but we'll see what happens.

It's happened three times in D3. UW-Platteville ran the table from start to finish twice in the nineties, and Potsdam State did it in 1985-86.

I don't understand the mentality that posits that losing can be a good thing in terms of relieving pressure on an undefeated team. Shouldn't you walk into the gym determined to win the game every time? And isn't the experience of playing under pressure precisely what stiffens a team for play in March?

[Greek Tragedy]

I don't understand the mentality that posits that losing can be a good thing in terms of relieving pressure on an undefeated team. Shouldn't you walk into the gym determined to win the game every time? And isn't the experience of playing under pressure precisely what stiffens a team for play in March?

Greg,

I'm not saying you would sandbag a game just to lose to take the pressure off you.  I mean, yeah, everyone wants to go undefeated and not lose.  But, if it happens, then I think it takes a little pressure off you so the spot light isn't on being undefeated and all that.  Going into March is pressure enough.  I don't think going undefeated is a bad thing, but if you lose, it's not the end of the world.  If I'm going to lose, I'd rather have it during the season rather than have my first loss in the NCAA tourney (not to say you're guaranteed a loss or anything!).

[John Gleich]

I think a lot of times a team that is undefeated gets the mentality that they're doing everything 100% right...  A lot of times, a loss can really show you the deficient... or at least less efficient areas of a team.  When I played at Point, we never got through January undefeated... but I know in 2002-2003, the Point team swept through the second half of conference and ran away with the title by 3 games and destroyed Oshkosh by 19 (in a game where we were up 30 most of the second half...) really squeaked by some teams towards the end of the second half of the year... and we didn't really adjust (because, come on, we won, we didn't need to adjust)... and then we lost to Oshkosh in a tough game in the Semi's of the conf tourney, and to Gustavus in the second round of the NCAA's.

Not to take anything away from Oshkosh, because they were a great team that season, but if we had adjusted, we might have seen a different result.  Dworak had 24, Iserloth had 3, in a game we lost by 5 points.  That's a huge disparity.

In the Gustavus game, we got outrebounded by 15.  Look how far both these teams went... and Point basically backed our way into the NCAA's.  Had we had a setback and learned from it... well... we'll never know.  Perhaps it would be the same result, but I'd (of course) like to think differently!   

We could seriously have been talking about 3 straight titles if we had adjusted and addressed some of our lack of inside toughness towards the end of the year (magnified by a loss) instead of just thinking we were ok. 

I'll be honest, we certainly DID learn from the loss, especially the Gustavus one... it really provided motivation to get better from one season to the next and REALLY gave us motivation when we went to their gym the next year!

But even so... look at the last two seasons.  Point lost the last game of the regular season each year, before winning out in the WIAC tourney and the NCAA's.  It really put everything in perspective and got us focused for our tournament runs... and it wasn't like we WANTED to win... the loss in 04 lost us a conference title and the loss in 05 cost us an outright title.

I'm going to agree with OS and say that you certainly don't sandbag... but a loss puts everything in perspective, especially for a team that seems to be on top of the world.

[hugenerd]

Oberlin got its first win tonight over Hiram, a d3 foe.

[hugenerd]

Green Mountain also got its first win over Mass College, also in D3.

[smedindy]

Whoa! Quite a day for the previously unloved!

[David Collinge]

Oberlin got its first win tonight over Hiram, a d3 foe.

I guess Hiram was caught looking ahead to their showdown on Wednesday at Wooster. 

If the Yeomen can get off the schneid, can Caltech be far behind?  They're at Cal Lutheran tonight.  Don't sleep on the Beavers!

[smedindy]

Don't forget about the devil of a team that is Daniel Webster. Maybe if they played a team named after John C. Calhoun? Would that spark them?

[David Collinge]

Cal Lu leaves the Beavers gnawing tonight, 77-45.