FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[ncc58]

Or, hopefully NOT!!!

CardinalDad,  stats don't always tell the tale and can be misleading. 

Hopefully next week we (that is Elmhurst) convert our opportunities so we don't end up on the wrong side at home.

[thunderdog]

I can also confirm that Wheaton had 12 men on the field for the last play (plus he was on the NCC side of the ball at the snap).  Especially after calling back a 35 yard pass play for holding... this call has to made against Wheaton. 

NCC is a very good football team... I have NO IDEA how they could have lost to Wash U...

[Comet 14]

I was also at the Elmhurst vs. Augie game and for the most part I agree with jaybird. The offens was not very good ( and thats being nice ). The defense played well but were on the field most of a very hot afternoon. That being said there were 2 things they could have done. 1- though they did not give up points early they also did not get many three and outs. Augie got large chunks of yards on first down. 2- play more than 12 players on defense in a game that you are getting killed in time of posession in. Elmhurst only used 1 d-linemen sub for the entire game. This resulted in tired players and missed tackles. I agree that the offense gave up on the run way to early and this played int Augies game plan. Jaybird- regarding the 4th down T.D pass that was ruled out of the endzone, I talked to a couple of parents after the game and the Elmhurst photographer has a photo of the recievers foot clearly inbounds. I am not placing blame on the officials, Elmhurst forced a punt on the next series and if we could have just fielded the punt we would have had good field positon. I just wanted to know if you spoke with anyone after the game regarding the play.

[79jaybird]

Thank you Comet and I see we both saw the same views of the game.
Regarding Veldhuis TD/incomplete due to out of bounds,  from my angle in the pressbox I thought we was out of bounds.  Great pass and great catch, but I thought initially he was out of bounds.
Regarding the officiating,  I thought they did an OK job.  They were not very sharp with many calls (both sides got many breaks) however, they did not decide the outcome and for the most part, were able to let the players play.

[usee]

However, there is no "grace area" for 12 men on the field. There are either 12 men on the field or not. On the college level, that penalty will be called 99.99999999999999999999% of the time. I say 99.9999999% because it wasn't called Sat. This is not youth or freshman high school level football where the game is a learning experience and the officials can tell a player what he did wrong and flag him the next time.

If the guy is a step and a half from his sideline with no possibility of affecting the play I believe there is in fact a "grace area". whether there should be is another debate. I have seen this many, many times with a guy trying to get off the field. You just don't often see it at the end of the game with so much on the line. The official could have called it but obviously realized it had no impact on the play. In fact I would argue the confusion on wheaton's side was to NCC's advantage.

For the most part, the officials let the teams play, as well they should. But, I have to ask, how many holding penalties were called in the game? When?

This doesn't matter. Did you see this hold? was it a hold? did he tackle the wheaton defender because he was beaten cleanly? I don't know but that's what matters. I have to assume (as another poster pointed out) that this must have been pretty blatant to be called by the official who was best in position to see it. How many holding penalties and when have nothing to do with it in my view.

That is very interesting about Toal. I've never seen or heard of that. Are you sure he was taken out at the official's direction? Or, maybe did the coaches take him out to cool him off rather than get an unsportsmanlike penalty? Do you have any more information on why that occurred?

Definatley the referree told swider to "get him out of here". I heard the official yell it to him. Swider asked him everyplay when he could return. He was out for 2 plays. very odd.

[Mugsy]

Jaybird- regarding the 4th down T.D pass that was ruled out of the endzone, I talked to a couple of parents after the game and the Elmhurst photographer has a photo of the recievers foot clearly inbounds.

Was his name Greg Brady?

[Comet 14]

jaybird, I agree. The officiating wasn't great but it was the same for both sides. Augie definately played better than Elmhurst. Thats why they won the game. I have no idea what his name is. Elmhurst has to get better on the offensive side of the ball or they will finish no better than last year. I thought the last 2 weeks were the worst 2 games I have seen by Kudyba. Missed a lot of open recievers.

[Comet 14]

I also have to give out a big CONGRATS to Mugsy on his accomplishment over the weekend.

[redman04]

Redman04 I assume you played on that team and may have insight on how this team is similiar/different to the 2003 team.  Usually, it's a strong class of Juniors that know they have something special, but are one year away from making it happen.

Nope too old... Son of Tailgater could better answer that question.
But, I do agree this team may be a year away, I am wondering how healthy they are??

Congrats to IWU on a nice win! 

[redman04]

We have all sorts of info on the site.

Yes you do and I love it!

I'll answer my own question

from 1999 till now now team in the CCIW has gone undefeated.   IWU did in 1996.

Thanks Pat!

False. In 2003 Wheaton went 10-0 in the regular season and finished 12-1, losing to Mt Union in the quarterfinals of the playoffs.

You are correct, I missed that for some reason   

[usee]

I have been thinking bigger picture about the status of CCIW football. Its unfortunate but I do think the league has fallen off a bit from where we have been and the gap between us and the other top conferences (WIAC, OAC...) has grown. The precipitous drop of NCC and elmhurst from the rankings are indicators of the belief out there that our conference isn't what it has been.  What's more, I believe  that while Wheaton is ranked #5 right now they are not the 5th best team in the country. They certainly could have been but when you lose 5-7 starters for the year your team simply isnt as good as it was. At one point on Saturday night Wheaton was playing without any of their captains on the field. They lost the best qb in the conference, a 1st team all cciw lb and captain (mckinney), a 1st team all conf and 3 yr starter at OT (and are playing a patchwork OL), a division 1 Defensive end (transfer from Air Force, Reyes), and Studebaker (the best dlineman in the country) didn't play saturday but for 3 series and is looking at some shelf time. While they have plugged in other guys and are still 5-0 they are in no shape for a deep playoff run without several of their key thorougbreds.

At this point in the season I believe Wheaton is our best representative but I am also not confident they will make it through the rest of the CCIW slate let alone to Alliance given the enormous injuries they have sustained.

[79jaybird]

Usee, I was thinking about this also, that we might be in danger of only receiving 1 bid into the big dance. Second place right now is looking at 8-2 overall and risky for a Pool C.  I certainly hope we get 2 entrants but the interleague parity and as you mentioned the WIAC and OAC having a stronger team base, we might be in trouble.

Comet14, yes the part that is not "clicking" for Elmhurst is their offense.  The defense is doing a great job of giving our offense a chance to pull away. They held Augie in check in the first half, and cannot be asked to keep the Vikings off the scoreboard all game long.  They need to get the spurs dug into their hides and get rolling again.

[Mugsy]

I have been thinking bigger picture about the status of CCIW football. Its unfortunate but I do think the league has fallen off a bit from where we have been and the gap between us and the other top conferences (WIAC, OAC...) has grown. The precipitous drop of NCC and elmhurst from the rankings are indicators of the belief out there that our conference isn't what it has been.  What's more, I believe  that while Wheaton is ranked #5 right now they are not the 5th best team in the country. They certainly could have been but when you lose 5-7 starters for the year your team simply isnt as good as it was. At one point on Saturday night Wheaton was playing without any of their captains on the field. They lost the best qb in the conference, a 1st team all cciw lb and captain (mckinney), a 1st team all conf and 3 yr starter at OT (and are playing a patchwork OL), a division 1 Defensive end (transfer from Air Force, Reyes), and Studebaker (the best dlineman in the country) didn't play saturday but for 3 series and is looking at some shelf time. While they have plugged in other guys and are still 5-0 they are in no shape for a deep playoff run without several of their key thorougbreds.

At this point in the season I believe Wheaton is our best representative but I am also not confident they will make it through the rest of the CCIW slate let alone to Alliance given the enormous injuries they have sustained.

I (obviously) am a huge advocate of Wheaton football, but I do not believe they are the 5th best team in the country right now for the very reasons usee mentions.  Just too many injuries.  I am extremely impressed with how they have overcome these injuries to this point.  A very resilent team and obviously they have considerable depth.  Not many teams have the ability to overcome the adversity they have faced thus far.  A long way to go in the CCIW season...

Whoever represents the CCIW has a good chance of winning their first round game, but the team from Alliance appears to be the best one ever.  I don't see the CCIW rep getting out of Alliance.

[usee]

also, someone asked about ittersagen. I believe he rolled his ankle. they taped it up on the sideline during one series and he was back out there.  He should be fine to cover the always dangerous augie recievers this week. 

[FormerCard]

I was unable to attend the Wheaton/NC game but I heard from many different sources the same thing that happened in the G.B./ Chicago game.  A tale of two halves and one team capitalizing on the others mistakes.   It sounds like there werent as many NC mistakes, but they did get very conservative on offense, similar to G.B.  

The post that Usee had about the CCIW and how wheaton isnt as strong as they were before those key injuries is very true and universal.  If you follow the NFL, rarely can a team with alot of EARLY injuries make it very far in the postseason.  Late injuries can hurt, but if the majority of the offense or defense was already in place and knew who they were, they can compensate a little better for losing a player with someone who has had some snaps during the regular season.   Wheaton did a great job coming back against NC, but when it comes to the postseason, as players return from injury (or don't at all), I think gelling together as team becomes more difficult.

You may here someone say "wait till we get Mckinney or ulrich back (or any player on any team for that matter)", but I am not always sure that it is the best thing for the team at that point in the season.  While recovering from injury, rust can begin to set in and if you are coming back for the post season, playing against Mount Union might not be the best time to get rid of the rust.

In a perfect world (which this is not),  no injuries happen, and wheaton wins the conference and gives mount union a game,   because they have the most talent that stayed and played together injury free for the entire season.