FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[usee]

Well, it is specifically a board for playoff blogs and a prominent IWU fan is posting there so I guess thats a stretch? Again, for some reason you took offense at something I put out there as part speculation (is it absurd to think IWU fans and players are thinking about the postseason??) and part fact. My point was that I doubt many were thinking about the implications on the AQ of a 3 way tie (including me until last night) and you took offense to my speculation. NCC and Wheaton have been in this exact situation a year ago so I don't think it was unreasonable to assume IWU fans and players may not have been thinking how complex the situation was. You thought it was a swipe at your team and it wasn't.

I have a "5 post rule" on the D3Sports.com message boards -- basically, when a debate gets over 5 posts back and forth, get out.

So you win, usee.  And yes, we all know that Mr. Ypsi speaks for Titan Nation...that is a given.

Go Titans.

Awesome. I'll carve another notch in my belt and move on.  8)

Ypsi isn't any more of a voice than you are.

Go Thunder.

[Titan Q]

PS  If your boys find some type of focus exercise that works, please pass it on to the rest of the league.

1992  Mount Union 49 Illinois Wesleyan 27
1995 Mount Union 40 Wheaton 14
1996 Mount Union 49 Wheaton 14
1999 Mount Union 42 Augustana 33
2001 Mount Union 32 Augustana 7
2002 Mount Union 42 Wheaton 21
2003 Mount Union 56 Wheaton 10
2004 Mount Union 27 Wheaton 6
2004 Mount Union 38 Carthage 20
2005 Mount Union 44 Augutana 7
2006 Mount Union 35 Wheaton 3

Pretty sure this was IWU who took the L but nice freudian slip. 

Especially bad since I was in the stands...as I was with my class of '93 mates in '92.  Ugly beatings.

[devildog29]

Well, it is specifically a board for playoff blogs and a prominent IWU fan is posting there so I guess thats a stretch? Again, for some reason you took offense at something I put out there as part speculation (is it absurd to think IWU fans and players are thinking about the postseason??) and part fact. My point was that I doubt many were thinking about the implications on the AQ of a 3 way tie (including me until last night) and you took offense to my speculation. NCC and Wheaton have been in this exact situation a year ago so I don't think it was unreasonable to assume IWU fans and players may not have been thinking how complex the situation was. You thought it was a swipe at your team and it wasn't.

I have a "5 post rule" on the D3Sports.com message boards -- basically, when a debate gets over 5 posts back and forth, get out.

So you win, usee.  And yes, we all know that Mr. Ypsi speaks for Titan Nation...that is a given.

Go Titans.

Awesome. I'll carve another notch in my belt and move on.  8)

Ypsi isn't any more of a voice than you are.

Go Thunder.

Ok, I'll try to be peacemaker.  Usee, I'm sure somewhere around the Shirk Center, someone is thinking about playoff possibilities in the back of their mind.  It's probably natural when the Titans have put themselves in position to compete for that chance by way of their current record.  To that extent, no doubt you are correct.  In defense of Q however, I will say that from the coaching staff down to the players, the #1 priority at the beginning of every season is to win the conference championship.  If you win the conference, postseason play will take care of itself, though granted it's a little more complicated than that in football as opposed to basketball.  Even when we were consistently in the "big 4" or "upper 4" however you'd like to call it, Norm always was focused on the conference championship first and foremost.  That's not to say we don't care about postseason, but that seemed like putting the cart in front of the horse.  I'm sure Dennie cared about the postseason with his basketball team, but I'm pretty sure he always preached winning the conference championship before winning the national championship.  And as much as we love Ypsilanti Chuck as the Titans #1 fan in all of Michigan, I think he is the first to admit his rosie green outlook on the Titans every game of every season is not necessarily opinions of the head, but instead emotions of the heart.

Unfortunately, one of the difficulties of a message board is that context or feeling is lost on the reader occasionally.  While your intent was certainly innocent, from our perspective in Titan land, it was very easy to take that as a swipe because practically no one close to the Titan athletic program is at all talking about playing for the AQ.  They are talking about playing for the conference championship.  I'm sure that's exactly what Q was thinking.  Hence, coming from our perspective, it made your post seem like we were being presumptive and pretentious and already talking about the playoffs.  But again, no doubt you are correct that it's certainly in the back of some folks' minds.  I just don't think you'll hear anyone talk about it besides Green Glasses Ypsi.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Mr. Ypsi not only doesn't speak for "Titan Nation", after some posts I'm not sure he even speaks for Mr. Ypsi!

I'm going to do the seemingly impossible and agree with both usee and Q!  Winning the title is always job one, and the NCC game is irrelevant to (at least a share of) that.  Of course, it would be much sweeter to win in Naperville so that the game is for the undisputed title!

But I also am very conscious of the playoff possibilities, especially since playing in Alliance is down the road (the IBC or MIAA winner will almost certainly get that 'honor' in round one).  One round at a time!

[AndOne]

Now for the good news/bad news for you IWU/NCC fans. IWU seems to think they will compete for a playoff bid Nov 10 in Bloomington no matter the result in Naperville this week.

Who said that?  All I have said, and I believe all any other IWU fan has said, is that the Titans will get "a chance to play for a championship" Nov. 10 vs Wheaton.  I have heard no mention of the AQ.

Winning a piece of the CCIW title is always huge, and it would be especially significant for this IWU team.  Getting a piece of the title is 100% of my focus as a fan.  I could care less about getting in the playoffs only to go march towards the annual CCIW Mount Union beating.

Did I mention you? You may not care about the playoffs but I would guess you are the exception so feel free to NOT comment since you don't care. The biggest difference between Wheaton and IWU is that the Thunder expect to win the conference title and is focused on how to compete in Alliance and IWU hopes to win at least a share of a conference title. nothing wrong with that just different focus.

I think the BIGGEST difference between Wheaton and not only Wesleyan, but just about every other CCIW team is that because of its religious orientation, Wheaton recruits on a national basis whereas the other conference teams recruiting efforts are focused mainly in Illinois and the surrounding region.

Wheaton naturally draws interest nationally, and its competition for recruits is as much against other colleges around the nation that share the same religious philosophy as it is against fellow CCIW schools. If you are of the religious orientation that Wheaton espouses, your college selection is naturally limited in scope and you then are automatically looking at schools all across the country rather than just within a couple of states in the midwest portion of the country. At least half of the Wheaton roster is from out of state. Wesleyan, for example, has 5 out of state players on their roster. And yes, I DO understand the argument that because Wheaton has to go after kids nationally, it makes it harder and naturally more expensive. However, if a kid wants to get a great education, play at a high level of competition, AND experience a certain religious philosophy as part of everyday campus life, his/her choices are naturally more limited, with Wheaton being among the more limited choices.

I do think this gives Wheaton a bit of a recruiting edge. Other CCIW schools just have to realize thats the way it is. However, due to this advantage, however slight it may be, I do think Wheaton SHOULD be good.

Lastly. if they play Mt. Union, it will be the end of their season.


   

[Mugsy]

Lastly. if they play Mt. Union, it will be the end of their season.

If Wheaton beats Carthage and
if Wheaton beats IWU for the AQ
or if Wheaton wins 1 of 2 and gets a Pool C
and if Wheaton wins the first round game...

then and only then they may play Mount Union and chances are their season will end - stranger things have happened this year in collegiate football.

Lots of "ifs" before we even get to that point.  If it ends up that way, I'd be very happy.  It would be another CCIW championship and the chance to play the very best. If you want to be the best, you should play the best.  It gives Wheaton a chance to measure where they are at as a program.  So far... Wheaton has had some work to do, but one of these years they will succeed.

It took a decade or more of 6-3 or 7-2 seasons to place 2nd or 3rd in the CCIW before Wheaton broke through and won the CCIW.  It took another 5 years for Wheaton to get to the point of contending each year for the CCIW title.  Who knows when, but one of these years Wheaton could break through to the next level.  I'm not saying it is this year or next... but if they keep striving, keep getting better... eventually it will happen.

[cardinaldad]

Now for the good news/bad news for you IWU/NCC fans. IWU seems to think they will compete for a playoff bid Nov 10 in Bloomington no matter the result in Naperville this week. While that is true from a win/loss perspective consider this: If the scenario plays out that NCC beats IWU and IWU needs to beat wheaton to force a 3 way tie, the tie will be settled by point differential. Currently the only number in that formula that we know for certain is that Wheaton is +4 and NCC is -4 by virtue of their contest against each other. The next piece to this puzzle will take place this Saturday in Naperville and the final tally will occur in Bloomington Nov 10. If you consider what each team must do to position themselves for the 3 way tie then: NCC absolutely has to beat IWU by 8 points. That score differential puts NCC at +4,  and IWU at -8 with Wheaton sitting at +4 going into the final week. That would mean IWU HAS to beat wheaton by 13 points to win the AQ!(NCC only would need a 1pt win by IWU over wheaton for them to win the AQ) Now suppose the worst case for NCC fans: If they beat IWU by 1 point (or anything less than 8 ) that puts the differential at -3 for NCC, -1 by IWU, and + 4 by Wheaton. That means IWU HAS to beat wheaton by 6 to guarantee the AQ and NCC has NO chance.

Basically IWU CANNOT lose this weekend if they want a chance at the playoffs. Its true they will compete for a share of the conference title no matter what, but if they go into the final week needing at least a 6pt victory the presssure is squarely on them and their inconsistent offense. In addition, while I would NOT want to be playing in Naperville this weekend with the Cardinal playing this well, NCC has to go up against the best defense in the conference and beat them by more than a TD to have a chance.

That is some confusing stuff and Mr. Ypsi, the numbers guy, can check my math and confirm these scenarios. What is certain: The picture is clearer and the pressure is mounting. It will be an interesting finish to the CCIW.

Usee, thanks for the great breakdown of the AQ implications. I thought that NCC had to beat IWU by more than four points and beat Carthage, of course,  and IWU had to beat Wheaton. Thanks for clearing up the point differential scenerio.

[cardinaldad]

Now for the good news/bad news for you IWU/NCC fans. IWU seems to think they will compete for a playoff bid Nov 10 in Bloomington no matter the result in Naperville this week.

Who said that?  All I have said, and I believe all any other IWU fan has said, is that the Titans will get "a chance to play for a championship" Nov. 10 vs Wheaton.  I have heard no mention of the AQ.

Winning a piece of the CCIW title is always huge, and it would be especially significant for this IWU team.  Getting a piece of the title is 100% of my focus as a fan.  I could care less about getting in the playoffs only to go march towards the annual CCIW Mount Union beating.

Did I mention you? You may not care about the playoffs but I would guess you are the exception so feel free to NOT comment since you don't care. The biggest difference between Wheaton and IWU is that the Thunder expect to win the conference title and is focused on how to compete in Alliance and IWU hopes to win at least a share of a conference title. nothing wrong with that just different focus.

I think the BIGGEST difference between Wheaton and not only Wesleyan, but just about every other CCIW team is that because of its religious orientation, Wheaton recruits on a national basis whereas the other conference teams recruiting efforts are focused mainly in Illinois and the surrounding region.

Wheaton naturally draws interest nationally, and its competition for recruits is as much against other colleges around the nation that share the same religious philosophy as it is against fellow CCIW schools. If you are of the religious orientation that Wheaton espouses, your college selection is naturally limited in scope and you then are automatically looking at schools all across the country rather than just within a couple of states in the midwest portion of the country. At least half of the Wheaton roster is from out of state. Wesleyan, for example, has 5 out of state players on their roster. And yes, I DO understand the argument that because Wheaton has to go after kids nationally, it makes it harder and naturally more expensive. However, if a kid wants to get a great education, play at a high level of competition, AND experience a certain religious philosophy as part of everyday campus life, his/her choices are naturally more limited, with Wheaton being among the more limited choices.

I do think this gives Wheaton a bit of a recruiting edge. Other CCIW schools just have to realize thats the way it is. However, due to this advantage, however slight it may be, I do think Wheaton SHOULD be good.

Lastly. if they play Mt. Union, it will be the end of their season.


   

huh?

[Titan Q]

Each CCIW school has its own little recruiting niche -- Wheaton's is certainly the most unique because of the religious affiliation.  I honestly cannot think of one recruit in football, basketball, or baseball (the three sports I follow the recruiting scene the closest for) that IWU has competed with Wheaton on.  I'm sure there have been a few, but none I am aware of.

IWU primarily recruits kids from the state of Illinois, and a huge majority of those are from the Chicago area.  Wesleyan will occasionally find a kid from out-of-state like freshman RB Bo Lanter (Clayton, MO), but it's usually a neighboring state.

IWU recuits against other CCIW schools quite a bit, but also against the likes of Wash U, Chicago, and Lawrence...much more so, I suspect, than other CCIW schools.  In the last decade, IWU has also started bumping into the Ivy and Patriot leagues quite a bit too for the Illinois kid with good grades/test scores...those schools really hit the Chicago area hard nowadays.

I have no idea if Wheaton's religious affiliation, and the very specific recruiting niche it creates, is an advantage of disadvantage overall vs other CCIW schools.  I'm sure it could be argued either way.  I do think it is clear that Wheaton finds a lot of "upper level" athletic talents because of its niche - like Kent Raymond in basketball, for example.  But IWU has found a ton of those kids over the years too due to its niche.  Again using basketball, 1st Team All-Americans Zach Freeman, Keelan Amelianovich, and Adam Dauksas in recent years.

For each school it is really all about 1) figuring out what its niche is, 2) finding the kids that fit that niche, and 3) selling them on the fit.

[Titan Q]

Ok, I'll try to be peacemaker.  Usee, I'm sure somewhere around the Shirk Center, someone is thinking about playoff possibilities in the back of their mind.  It's probably natural when the Titans have put themselves in position to compete for that chance by way of their current record.  To that extent, no doubt you are correct.  In defense of Q however, I will say that from the coaching staff down to the players, the #1 priority at the beginning of every season is to win the conference championship.  If you win the conference, postseason play will take care of itself, though granted it's a little more complicated than that in football as opposed to basketball.  Even when we were consistently in the "big 4" or "upper 4" however you'd like to call it, Norm always was focused on the conference championship first and foremost.  That's not to say we don't care about postseason, but that seemed like putting the cart in front of the horse.  I'm sure Dennie cared about the postseason with his basketball team, but I'm pretty sure he always preached winning the conference championship before winning the national championship. 

Right.  Going back to the late Jack Horenberger, former basketball & baseball coach and A.D. at IWU, winning the College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin has always been the big deal.  That is the culture around IWU athletics -- that CCIW titles are a huge deal.  Whether one agrees or disagrees, post-season focus has always been secondary.

If the focus of Wheaton's football team right now is on finding a way to compete with Mount Union in a few weeks as usee suggests, I respect that.  But I know that the emphasis for IWU coaches and players is on winning the league...and I like that.  The CCIW really is a special conference and championships are hard to come by.

[Jim Matson]

I've been trying to follow this whole thread over the past 2 days and still don't what caused the original argument!  And what was that outburst about Wheaton recruiting?!

Like Cardinal Dad said so well..."huh?"

[Mugsy]

If the focus of Wheaton's football team right now is on finding a way to compete with Mount Union in a few weeks as usee suggests, I respect that.  But I know that the emphasis for IWU coaches and players is on winning the league...and I like that.  The CCIW really is a special conference and championships are hard to come by.

I can't speak for the Wheaton staff and administration, as I haven't been a player or coach for a long, long time.  But I don't think Wheaton is building it's program to beat Mount Union.

Coach Swider and staff are trying to build the best football program possible, while remaining true to the vision of the school - growing, challenging student athletes to become the all they can and to make an positive impact in their communities, their churches, their offices... where ever they find themselves.  In a nutshell... the schools motto - "For Christ and his Kingdom..."

I'm willing to bet the primary goal is first and foremost to win the CCIW championship.  That is the minimal goal when they start out camp... if and when that is goal is achieved, then the goal would be to strive for a national championship.  Right now for any CCIW champion, that means slaying the dragon in Alliance, OH.

Now reaching these goals must be accomplished through hard work and in a way that reflects integrity, character and honesty.  A CCIW championship is worthless if it is gained through ill means.  I think it means a lot to Coach Swider and staff to be respected for how they run the program.

I would seriously doubt that the goal of CCIW championship, followed by the remote and ultimate goal of a NCAA championship is unique to anyone in the CCIW.   Though for some programs... while winning the CCIW championship is the goal, it may be a few years out. 

[Carthage Fan]

Got back from Decatur last night and after putting new batteries in my pacemaker (no offense to anyone who has one) glad to come out of Millikin with a win.  Red Men turned the ball over 7 times and you don't expect to win, but the guys came out with a 21-10 deficit in the 2nd half and put up 28 to Millikin's 7 (against our #2 D) to win 38-28.  This is 2 hard fought comeback wins for the Red Men and we are proud of their intestinal fortitude and no quit attitude. 

The Big Blue played hard and physical and have some good players who left nothing on the field.   Speaking of field, what is with the crown on the northeast side of the field from the 40 to the goaline?  The home stands and press box is impressive but that part of the field is pretty bad and should be regraded. 

Next 2 weeks are a real test for Carthage, that is an understatement I know. 

Go Red Men! 

[usee]

If the focus of Wheaton's football team right now is on finding a way to compete with Mount Union in a few weeks as usee suggests, I respect that.  But I know that the emphasis for IWU coaches and players is on winning the league...and I like that.  The CCIW really is a special conference and championships are hard to come by.

I can't speak for the Wheaton staff and administration, as I haven't been a player or coach for a long, long time.  But I don't think Wheaton is building it's program to beat Mount Union.

Coach Swider and staff are trying to build the best football program possible, while remaining true to the vision of the school - growing, challenging student athletes to become the all they can and to make an positive impact in their communities, their churches, their offices... where ever they find themselves.  In a nutshell... the schools motto - "For Christ and his Kingdom..."

I'm willing to bet the primary goal is first and foremost to win the CCIW championship.  That is the minimal goal when they start out camp... if and when that is goal is achieved, then the goal would be to strive for a national championship.  Right now for any CCIW champion, that means slaying the dragon in Alliance, OH.

Now reaching these goals must be accomplished through hard work and in a way that reflects integrity, character and honesty.  A CCIW championship is worthless if it is gained through ill means.  I think it means a lot to Coach Swider and staff to be respected for how they run the program.

I would seriously doubt that the goal of CCIW championship, followed by the remote and ultimate goal of a NCAA championship is unique to anyone in the CCIW.   Though for some programs... while winning the CCIW championship is the goal, it may be a few years out. 

Mugsy,

very well stated. As we have said all year (in the offseason in particular for those who don't read this board much) Wheaton is focused on building their program to compete with the best and that is in Alliance. It goes without saying the primary goal is a CCIW championship but that is something The Thunder have come to expect, not hope for. If they get to alliance, they will have won the CCIW championship.

[usee]

wheaton is #4 and NCC #28 in latest poll.