FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[washdupcard]

http://www.d3football.com/qow.php

Very telling stat...NCC is 4th in Quality of Wins to date.  Interesting to see how much more they move up if they beat Augie this weekend.  The QOW ranking is a telling proposition of support to their #1 ranking in the North Region.  IMO.

[CardinalAlum]

Thorne is also a tremendous fund raiser.  Al Benedettie and Dick Wherli have always been large contributers to the football program, but JT personally raised a ton of money for us to go to Colorado my Junior year and stay in a fantastic hotel ( and I mean a Hotel ....an Adam's Mark I believe)  

Yea that Carthage logo is pretty bad!

Cardalum,

Its very hard for me to comment on the old coaches...I know that many people associated with NCC think I had a problem with the offensive coaching staff, but that just isn't true. I very much respected Coach Warren and wish he would have had a better opportunity to prove himself at NCC ( I think he has done fairly well at his new location). I thought he was severely restrained in what he was allowed to do...you may now more about this than I.


I would also venture to say that the DeGeorge Defenses at NCC were better than NCC's current D. If Radke is playing this well in the current scheme...he would have been an absolute monster in the old one.

Ok, one thing at a time......NCC62, I'm not sure that he was as involved witht the fundraising as you might think.  Krumlauf was and is the biggest reason that huge funds were and still are being raised for the program.

Wash'd,

Your ex-coach and buddy of mine has stated that there was no issue between you and the Offensive staff.  It was more of a frustration that the defense at the time had been playing so well and we couldn't move the ball.  Yes, Warren was enormously restrained in what he was allowed to do by DeGeorge who had ZERO clue as to the offensive side of the ball.  He is the reason you had to deal with that double wing offense that you TRIED to run for those few years.  One other part of that is that the offensive line was lacking in talent.  I understand that there were some great kids, but when your starting tackles were 5'8 and 5'9, you weren't going to be successful no matter the offense.  I do agree that the defenses you played on were better than today's NCC defense.  Radtke would have been a monster in those defenses, i agree.

[FormerCard]

Former Card,

I am actually a big believer in DeGeorge's strength and conditioning program.  Personally, I feel like it really helped me.   

Washedup,

The program was good, however there was no push from the coaches to implement it and do it at a high intensity level. (Dot Drill was the greatest by the way)  Do you ever remember Warren or JoeD getting on someone for not lifting enough weight and not just in a joking matter.  Guys would lift before, but the motivation really has come from the strength and conditioning Coach (Wienke).  It is much for intense and it results in higher gains and stronger players.  There just wasnt the dedication to the weight program like their has been the last 4 years.

[wheels81]

My montra all year was run the ball, Wheaton, You don't have the receivers you did last year and youve got a great offensive line.  It's a shame that it took them that long to emphasize it.   Also, don't use the qb option unless you use it more than 3 times a game,  on second thought scrap it all together.  More turnovers occurred when Wheaton ran it than td's.  If you're going to throw limit it to Chupp and  Matt Bradley.  The 2 tall receivers don't have the hands or speed.   
I don't think wheaton runs the ball vs Carthage had they beat Illinois Weslyan.  I think they finally got the wake up call.
Also, Frank Andrews is a solid qb who may not have the arm of chupp but knows what he is doing. 
Also it gives the Defense time to rest when running the ball.  This defense is probably one of the best in the nation.  They had to try to over come 6 turnovers vs NC and only ended up losing by 9. and 6 of the those points came off a int. run back.

[matblake]

Sorry to hear about the change in Carthage's helmet.  The Red Men appears to me to be just as offensive as Redmen if you are going to take the PC route.  I don't see any difference between the two.  In my opinion, you need to get the ranks riled up to prevent that flame symbol. At this point, there is probably nothing you can do regarding the feathers on the C, but if the masses let the administration know that the flame is not an option, they will listen.

[matblake]

The Wheaton offense has been pass oriented for a long time.  Remember that a large percentage of the coaching staff has been at the school long term.  With the exception of my freshman year ('92 where the phrase "Tim Tully on the quarterback keeper" was commonly heard)  the offense has always been pass to set up the run.  It can be hard to overcome tendencies that have worked for 10+ years.  I understand that is job of the coaching staff but it's important to remember that even with the stronger running game this year that Wheaton has been in every game. It is not like the Thunder were getting blown out by 30 every game and then started focusing on the run and then started winning.  Let's not forget that the Carthage defense is banged up too.

[vikes35]

Well, the showdown of the week is on. I firmly believe that Auggie will hand NCC its lunch. Should be a tight game early on, but the grind it out style of offense Auggie brings will outmatch NCC. Go Auggie!!

Zorbada,

As an Auige fan who hopes they win I really have to disagree with the statement that Augie will hand NCC their lunch. We faced an Elmhurst team this weekend that has the same offensive philosophy as the Cardinals and we didn't exactly grind it out on them. The defense's tackling flat out stunk. Elmhurst moved the ball up and down the field on us all day long, and pretty much looked better than Augie up until the end when the Bluejays were pushing. The score is deceiving since 14 of the points were scored as Augie was actually trying to run the clock out and broke a couple of plays to the end zone. It wasn't exactly the reassurance that the Augie fans were looking for in preparation for NCC. It was a dramatic game filled with excitement, but I can gaurentee if Kniss and the offense get 523 yards against Augie this weekend the same result will not happen. Also to put another stat up their that showed Augie was not exactly grinding it out, the TOP of the game ended up being EC 35:20 and Augie 24:40, which is shocking to anybody that follows Viking football. Yes the Vikings got a couple of breaks with Anthony's pick 6 and with some long breakout runs, but if the Cardinals get 35+ mins with the ball like EC did it is going to be a long day on the home side in Rock Island. With that said if Augie can control the ball (35 to 40 mins TOP) and can tackle without allowing 3 yards extra each time the game will be close and the edge will go to Augie. If the EC game happens again it is going to be tough for Augie to stay in the game.

[wheels81]

My thought on run vs pass was ok your quarterback throws 5 ints in first game, and yet you still win vs Gust.Adolphus.   We're not talking about a 1st year quarterback w/0 experience.  I think they should have realized that something needed tobe done then.  You can get away with that against teams like that but just think how much Wheaton would have done had they not given the ball to a good NC team 5 of 6 times.  I just think they needed to redo their thinking on who the quarterback should be.  They needed to adapt a little quicker than 7 games into the schedule.  Like I said the Wheaton defense has done a tremendous job this year containing their opponents and keeping wheaton in games that they should have been trounced.  Last year wheaton's offense bailed on the Defense because they could score so well.  This year the defense has taken the burden of winning the games. 
I remember the tully years,  I think that's what soured me to the option for it seemed every time they run it they turned it over on missed pitches/catches.
Maybe wheaton should give Augie a taste of their version of the Wing T  :-)

[matblake]

Before I get the Tim Tully fans riled up, let me just say when he did pass he was terrific.  One player told me that he could hit you on the hands whether he was dropping back, roll out, scrambling etc.  I don't really remember if he would have been considered more of a runner or a passer.  Maybe someone else will remember.  Devin Leftwich as a runner was a great compliment to him during those days.  Also, I never met Tim, but I have no doubt he was a great guy. 

[NCCARDS99]

Washedup,

The program was good, however there was no push from the coaches to implement it and do it at a high intensity level. (Dot Drill was the greatest by the way)  Do you ever remember Warren or JoeD getting on someone for not lifting enough weight and not just in a joking matter.  Guys would lift before, but the motivation really has come from the strength and conditioning Coach (Wienke).  It is much for intense and it results in higher gains and stronger players.  There just wasnt the dedication to the weight program like their has been the last 4 years.

Motivation needs to come from the players themselves as well.  I think the best example is St. John's in MN.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the do not have a Coach Mandated Strength and Conditioning program, and they have been among the top of D3 football for years.  They rely on their players doing what it takes in the weightroom and on the track to succeed.  A coach can yell at a player until they are blue in the face but if that kid doesn not have self motivation, it is pointless.  

I played under both coaching staffs, and lifted in both strength and conditioning programs.  I made huge gains in both strength and conditioning programs.  I actually felt that the Coach presence in the weight under Thorne was totally overkill.  I dont know what it is but there is just something about Thorne's first years Coaching that rubs me the wrong way.  One of Thorne's Coaches (Jones) in particular, would walk around the weightroom screaming "git yo money" at the tops of his lungs, getting in everyones faces while they were trying to lift.  This was not only ridiculous, but unnecessary.  Probably only 1 out of 10 guys was motivated by this utterly stupid display.  Apparently he did not know that in D3 we don't GIT ANY MONEY.  I guess it just takes one bad taste in your mouth to ruin your opinion of people.  Don't get me wrong I loved Weinke and would have loved to be in a lifting program that was totally under his control, but at that time it wasnt.  

As for dedication in the weight room, I was there every day busting my hump where were you.    Not sure when you were a Card but during my whole career as a Cardinal I can remember good turnouts in the weight program.  And I can remember lots of people making gains, and getting encouragement (reasonably) from coaches.  So i have no Beef with how the former program was ran.

[matblake]

I think that jaybird in post 1490 said that bottom line it comes down the the players performing.  Therefore, I have to give credit to Kam Kniss.  Although Coach Thorne duly deserves praise for the turnaround, it seems as if Kniss performance on the field puts the money where the coaching is, so to speak.

[FormerCard]

As for dedication in the weight room, I was there every day busting my hump where were you.    Not sure when you were a Card but during my whole career as a Cardinal I can remember good turnouts in the weight program.  And I can remember lots of people making gains, and getting encouragement (reasonably) from coaches.  So i have no Beef with how the former program was ran.

Nccards,

I was there everyday, and I distinctly remember Mr. Jones being out of his head.  That is a good reason he in not with the program anymore.  But I know you can attest that the conditioning, not just lifting, was a little more intense the year or two you were with Wienke.  Some people are self-motivated but a few of these guys need a push and I dont think that was there before..but we could argue all day on this, so lets not.  We can all agree that the offense is a lot more fun to watch, and that the program is headed in the right direction

[FormerCard]

As for dedication in the weight room, I was there every day busting my hump where were you.    Not sure when you were a Card but during my whole career as a Cardinal I can remember good turnouts in the weight program.  And I can remember lots of people making gains, and getting encouragement (reasonably) from coaches.  So i have no Beef with how the former program was ran.

And the lifting program without Odell was a lot better than with him, but he did bring in Holden which was a pretty nice addition over the last 4 years.  Wienke ran a good program filled with "Helter Skelter"

Nccards,

I was there everyday, and I distinctly remember Mr. Jones being out of his head.  That is a good reason he in not with the program anymore.  But I know you can attest that the conditioning, not just lifting, was a little more intense the year or two you were with Wienke.  Some people are self-motivated but a few of these guys need a push and I dont think that was there before..but we could argue all day on this, so lets not.  We can all agree that the offense is a lot more fun to watch, and that the program is headed in the right direction

[washdupcard]

Okay i need your former numbers so I know who the hell is talking here.

[redman04]

Green Weenies Suck! Green Weenies Suck! Green Weenies Suck! Green Weenies Suck! Green Weenies Suck! Green Weenies Suck! Green Weenies Suck! Green Weenies Suck!
Just practicing for this Saturday's game!