FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[usee]

I agree you can't factor out 1 play and then look at the stats. The fact is Lanter averaged 4.9 yds per attempt vs his usual 3.8 yds per attmpt (Winston was at 4.0 yds per) so the arguement IWU could have run more carries some weight in my mind. ( although I was not at the game)

OK it may be a bad way to look at the stats, but, I still think keeping Lanter under 100yds was a good day for our D.  My story and I am sticking to it.   The key.....W for Carthage

I agree its good. IWU rushed for less than its average yds per game. That was a key. I think the thought was perhaps if the coaches stuck to the run more it may have been a different outcome.

[oldnuthin]

I agree you can't factor out 1 play and then look at the stats. The fact is Lanter averaged 4.9 yds per attempt vs his usual 3.8 yds per attmpt (Winston was at 4.0 yds per) so the arguement IWU could have run more carries some weight in my mind. ( although I was not at the game)

OK it may be a bad way to look at the stats, but, I still think keeping Lanter under 100yds was a good day for our D.  My story and I am sticking to it.   The key.....W for Carthage

my point in the original post, had the coaches run the ball more, it may have been a different outcome Ball control means Carthage would not have run 92 plays equals less opportunity to win for Carthage, wether they would have held him under 100 yards.. we will never know As you stated Carthage D set up to stop the pass. Coaches responsibility to see this and scheme and adjust not a knock on Carthage D just an observation. As for your story we are all free men under the constitution.

[FormerCard]

Sounds like there was one good game this weekend and that was the IWU/Carthage Game.
I don't often look ahead, never as a player, but as a fan, I think I can bring up the thought for discussion. 
In just under 3 weeks we could have a 6-0 NC traveling to a 6-0 Wheaton with alot on the line.

Does anyone remember the last time 2 top 10 ranked nationally CCIW teams played in a regular season matchup?   

Does NC come in as the dog?  I would say Wheaton -3.5, because they are playing at home, but I don't know...provided both teams win out, NC will NOT be ranked ahead of Wheaton going into the matchup, yet WERE the preseason favorite in the CCIW.

Again, before anyone jumps on me for looking ahead, I will say it again..this is only if both teams win the next 2 weeks and they are very capable of doing so.

I don't think it has happened. Wheaton will have to get past Augie in Rock Island this week and Millikin at home next week.

The school 8 miles south will have to beat the vikings in chicago this saturday and Carthage at home next weekend to set up the historic game.

I like NCs path to the game more than the former Crusaders,  however I am very intrigued to see Carthages pass happy offense, it should be a fun one to watch...plus it is homecoming, so there will not be a shortage of jawing from the North End Zone towards the Redmen.

[Mugsy]

Amazing statistic mentioned over on the OAC board:

Nate Kmic of Mount Union has 2724 yards rushing for his career...  in playoff games alone!  Absolutely crazy...

To put that into some perspective, Wheaton's all time career leader in rushing yards (Pedro Arruza) had 3100 yards in 4 years.  If Nate Kmic stays healthy and barring a serious upset early in the playoffs, he will have more yards rushing in the playoffs in 4 years against top level competition than Wheaton's all time leading rusher.

I'm pretty sure the all-time CCIW rushing leader is over 5000 yards (5400 yards by Patrick Brown from Carthage?), but Kmic is close to the career leader for many of the CCIW teams.

[letsplay2]

Mugsy, I know this is a little nitpicky but Pat Brown was a quarterback for the former Redmen.  I think he might have had close to 5000 yards passing in his career, but not even close to that many rushing yards.  regardless, that's an absurd stat for kmic.     

[thunderdog]

Mugsy,
Just read your post about Kmic's playoff #'s... truly incredible.

In High School news:

I had the opportunity to watch Justin Swider (son of Wheaton College Head Coach Mike Swider) start his first ever Varsity football game at QB this past weekend when Weaton North (4-2) beat Glenbard East (3-3) in Lombard by a score of 24-21.  Justin had an impressive performance, especially considering the following:
1.  Justin had been practicing primarily as a free safety up until recently.  Kent Graham's son (sorry, don't know his first name) had been the starter, so Justin hadn't been getting many reps at QB throughout the first 5 games.
2.  Justin, only a junior, has already had shoulder AND elbow surgery on his throwing arm.

I thought Justin threw the ball exceptionally well.  Out of all the passes Justin threw, only one could qualify as "poorly thrown" - a deep fly route down the sideline that was underthrown.  All other passes were right on.  His receivers didn't help too much with at least 3 dropped passes.

Throughout the game, Justin made plays as both a passer and a runner.  Most importantly, in crunch time, Justin showed incredible poise in leading the Falcons down to the Rams 10 yard line in the final 1:30, after the Rams tied the score 21-21.  This included a completion of 23 yards on a 2nd and 25 that helped put the Falcons in field goal position.

I guess the reason I bring this up is ... I've gotten the same response whenever I tell my fellow Wheaton Crusaders (relax, I've grown into liking the Thunder, but that doesn't change the fact that I was a Crusader) that I saw Coach Swider's son play ball... "He's a junior already!"  Yes, believe it or not, but Justin isn't 5 years old anymore... and he's developing into quite a football player!

What if Justin ends up at Wheaton College?  Do you think the CCIW could handle 2 Swiders at the same time?  What if Mikey ends up at Wheaton College 2 years later?  Do you think the CCIW could handle 3 Swiders???

[Mugsy]

Mugsy, I know this is a little nitpicky but Pat Brown was a quarterback for the former Redmen.  I think he might have had close to 5000 yards passing in his career, but not even close to that many rushing yards.  regardless, that's an absurd stat for kmic.     

Well that explains why for the life of me it wasn't ringing a bell... 

That's what happens when you attempt to quickly lookup the top CCIW rushers of all time. I found it hard to believe it is still Jim Jodat according to the CCIW website.  I was pretty sure one of the Carthage RB's from the late 90's had rushed for more than 3400 yards.  I see my mistake... under individual career records I thought they listed the top rushers together like they do on many other sites.  Instead they listed the top passer, followed by the top rusher.  So... Jim Jodat was the top Carthage rusher at 4079 and as you say Brown was the top passer in Carthage history at 5435 yards.  Guess I should read more carefully.

My mistake and thanks for catching it... right now I don't have as much time as I would like to post and unfortunately I'm rushing some I should skip all together.

[Gregory Sager]

NPU will have a hard time winning a conference game if they continue to field freshman and sophomores. I didn't see a SR. on their defense and there were only a couple of Jrs. Its hard to compete in the CCIW with underclassmen.

You win this week's Master of the Obvious Award, usee.

Unless they started printing the age of each player and/or their eligibility status on their jersey's I am not sure it's that obvious without actually seeing NPU play and looking through the program. 

It's obvious to everyone who has read this board all season that NPU has an underclassmen-dominated team. Why? Because I've pointed it out already, and I'm pretty sure that I've pointed it out more than once. In fact, I've specifically stated in here that there's only four seniors on the entire Vikings team. And why else? Because NPU is perennially an underclassmen-dominated team, and I've discoursed ad nauseam on that subject whenever the topic arises as to why North Park has never been competitive in football, as it so frequently does in this room.

And your concluding sentence, "It's hard to compete in the CCIW with underclassmen," ranks right up there with "the grass is green" and "the sky is blue" in terms of bombshell revelations.

I think Shelby Wood is a fine CCIW qb and would start for most teams in this league. He has a good arm, can definately take a hit, and moves around the pocket very well. It would have been nice to see how good NPU could have been with Kelvyn West and Chris Durr along with Wood.

Agreed. But, as Scott Pethtel would tell you himself, part of his learning curve as North Park's head coach consists of figuring out which kinds of student-athletes can cut it in the classroom at NPU and which kinds can't. The program isn't going to move forward if he brings in talented but academically limited players whose eligibility can't be counted upon, and he knows that. Therefore, I'm not playing the "what if" game as far as Durr and West are concerned.

[Mugsy]

And as I typed I thought of Nathan Wallick of Millikin... he had 4595 yards.

Point is... Kmic's rushing stats in the playoffs alone is ridiculous.

[usee]

NPU will have a hard time winning a conference game if they continue to field freshman and sophomores. I didn't see a SR. on their defense and there were only a couple of Jrs. Its hard to compete in the CCIW with underclassmen.

You win this week's Master of the Obvious Award, usee.

Unless they started printing the age of each player and/or their eligibility status on their jersey's I am not sure it's that obvious without actually seeing NPU play and looking through the program. 

It's obvious to everyone who has read this board all season that NPU has an underclassmen-dominated team. Why? Because I've pointed it out already, and I'm pretty sure that I've pointed it out more than once. In fact, I've specifically stated in here that there's only four seniors on the entire Vikings team. And why else? Because NPU is perennially an underclassmen-dominated team, and I've discoursed ad nauseam on that subject whenever the topic arises as to why North Park has never been competitive in football, as it so frequently does in this room.

And your concluding sentence, "It's hard to compete in the CCIW with underclassmen," ranks right up there with "the grass is green" and "the sky is blue" in terms of bombshell revelations.

Greg, I don't remember what I wrote 2 pages ago let alone what you wrote about your team some months ago (more than once I'm sure). So call the grass and sky whatever color you want but don't presume I'll remember any of it tomorrow. 

I think Shelby Wood is a fine CCIW qb and would start for most teams in this league. He has a good arm, can definately take a hit, and moves around the pocket very well. It would have been nice to see how good NPU could have been with Kelvyn West and Chris Durr along with Wood.

Agreed. But, as Scott Pethtel would tell you himself, part of his learning curve as North Park's head coach consists of figuring out which kinds of student-athletes can cut it in the classroom at NPU and which kinds can't. The program isn't going to move forward if he brings in talented but academically limited players whose eligibility can't be counted upon, and he knows that. Therefore, I'm not playing the "what if" game as far as Durr and West are concerned.

I don't really want to touch this one but this is an indictment of the coaching staff and administration if what you are saying is true. I prefer to continue to believe Scott Pehetel and staff know what they are doing.

[Neverwas]

I hope Pethel can figure it out at NPU.  They consistently have a few underclassmen who contribute each year.  It would be nice to see NPU put together a few solid classes and get rid of this streak.  It seems they are taking steps in the right direction each year only to lose players at seasons end.  I think Wood is a good qb who could keep NPU in a game or two.  Maybe they need a few extra breaks...I wouldn't count on it this year though.  Even though I support Wheaton I find myself cheering for NPU each week.  Lets just hope they don't turn into the cubs...there's always next year.

[Gregory Sager]

It is difficult to fully comprehend the "tone" of an email or chat board post.  I was merely trying to convey (in somewhat animated terms) that the arrogance you were applying to my previous post was not warranted (at least in this case).

Yes, you hit a nerve because I strive toward acting and communicating with integrity - though I fail more than I'd like.  I am fully aware of the perception of arrogance that many attribute to Wheaton and anyone who attended Wheaton.  In many cases it is valid.  As a result I have always attempted to speak, think and act in a way that does not align with that perception.

Besides... I have a wife from North Park and have attended a Covenant Church all my life.  I have many people to hold me accountable if I wander into the realm of "there is nothing better than Wheaton..."     This doesn't begin to take into consideration all the posters here who love to keep me humble.  Just look at CardinalAlum's profile... 

I'm staying out of the whole discussion as to whether or not Wheaton fosters a sense of entitlement among its sons and daughters, but for what it's worth I've got Mugsy's back on this one. Nothing he's ever written here has struck me as coming from someone who can be tagged as a spoiled, arrogant, or whiny Wheaton alumnus. And I'm not just saying that because he's a fellow Covie.   As to whether or not CardinalAlum can take credit for Mugsy's humility, I'll let them duke it out over that.

[Gregory Sager]

Greg, I don't remember what I wrote 2 pages ago let alone what you wrote about your team some months ago (more than once I'm sure). So call the grass and sky whatever color you want but don't presume I'll remember any of it tomorrow.

Hey! The "forgetful old man" routine is supposed to be my trump card!

Seriously, though, NPU fields a team largely made up of freshmen and sophomores every single year, and it has for as long as anyone whose initials aren't "DP" can remember. It's a painful fact, but I've never shirked from bringing it up whenever the subject of North Park's gridiron incompetence arises.

I think Shelby Wood is a fine CCIW qb and would start for most teams in this league. He has a good arm, can definately take a hit, and moves around the pocket very well. It would have been nice to see how good NPU could have been with Kelvyn West and Chris Durr along with Wood.

Agreed. But, as Scott Pethtel would tell you himself, part of his learning curve as North Park's head coach consists of figuring out which kinds of student-athletes can cut it in the classroom at NPU and which kinds can't. The program isn't going to move forward if he brings in talented but academically limited players whose eligibility can't be counted upon, and he knows that. Therefore, I'm not playing the "what if" game as far as Durr and West are concerned.

I don't really want to touch this one but this is an indictment of the coaching staff and administration if what you are saying is true. I prefer to continue to believe Scott Pehetel and staff know what they are doing.

They do. But I don't agree with your assertion that this is an indictment of his staff. Last season was Pethtel's second on the job. It takes time to figure out the institutional vagaries involved in coaching (i.e., what kinds of academic backgrounds are conducive to classroom success at a particular school and what kinds aren't; what sort of academic path is pursuable in tandem with a college football career and what sorts aren't; etc.), and Pethtel and his staff deserve the time to learn them. From everything I've been told, this year's crop of NPU newbies is much more likely to achieve academic success than those of past years.

As for the administration, student-athletes flunk out of every school, at every level of college sports. The admissions department can let you in, but they're not going to go to class for you, study for you, write your papers for you, or take your tests for you. Once you're in, your success or your failure rests on your shoulders alone.

I hope Pethel can figure it out at NPU.  They consistently have a few underclassmen who contribute each year.  It would be nice to see NPU put together a few solid classes and get rid of this streak.  It seems they are taking steps in the right direction each year only to lose players at seasons end.

You hit the nail on the head, Neverwas. Retention is the key, because the horrific retention rates of NPU's football program are the reason why the Vikings are forced to trot out freshmen and sophomores onto the field every season. If Scott Pethel can keep his class of '11 and class of '12 together with no more than a tiny number of transfers or dropouts, and if he can build upon that solid base with similar classes over the next couple of recruiting cycles, the Vikings will start to see some success on the gridiron. But those are huge 'ifs' -- none of his predecessors stretching back for a long, long time have been able to succeed when it comes to retention.

Even though I support Wheaton I find myself cheering for NPU each week.  Lets just hope they don't turn into the cubs...there's always next year.

NPU football isn't the Cubs. Unlike the Vikings, the Cubs have: a) an overall winning record historically; b) recent winning seasons; and c) the Cubs have actually won championships, no matter how old they may be.

All that North Park can hang its hat on is a 6-3 campaign in '68 under Norm Rathje, and a 4-4-1 record in '93 when Tim Rucks was running the program. Before that, you have to go back to the pre-CCIW days of '58 and '59 to find winning North Park teams ... and prior to that, to find winning teams you have to go all the way back to the leather-helmet days before WWII, when North Park was still a junior college.

North Park is more like the Chicago/St. Louis/Arizona Cardinals than any other pro franchise. Or maybe the L.A. Clippers.

[usee]

I hope Pethel can figure it out at NPU.  They consistently have a few underclassmen who contribute each year.  It would be nice to see NPU put together a few solid classes and get rid of this streak.  It seems they are taking steps in the right direction each year only to lose players at seasons end.

You hit the nail on the head, Neverwas. Retention is the key, because the horrific retention rates of NPU's football program are the reason why the Vikings are forced to trot out freshmen and sophomores onto the field every season. If Scott Pethel can keep his class of '11 and class of '12 together with no more than a tiny number of transfers or dropouts, and if he can build upon that solid base with similar classes over the next couple of recruiting cycles, the Vikings will start to see some success on the gridiron. But those are huge 'ifs' -- none of his predecessors stretching back for a long, long time have been able to succeed when it comes to retention.

Oh sure, he gets the "you hit the nail on the head" speech and I get a biology lesson about earth, wind and fire. That's fair.

[warrior35]

A quick question for NPU fans.  Does anyone know anything of the whereabouts of Keith Kura?  I know he coached there for a number of years, and I see he is no longer coaching the Vikings.  I have known him for some time now, but somehow lost him in the shuffle and am not aware of where he may have gone.