FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[FormerCard]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but it is good to see that Wheaton is continuing to attract the praise of NFL scouts:

http://49ers.com/pressbox/news_detail.php?PRKey=4725&section=PR%20News

From 49ers scout Ethan Waugh:

"Right after the game I jumped in my car and drove north to Holland, Michigan where I watched Hope College play Wheaton College. Wheaton is most famous for being the alma mater of Billy Graham, but they have an excellent football program as well. Those of you who follow the draft closely might know that Wheaton had a player drafted by the Eagles last year in Andy Studebaker. This year, they have another legitimate prospect in defensive back Pete Ittersagen. It is really uncommon for a Division III school to have such a wealth of NFL-caliber talent, and it goes to show what a great job head coach Mike Swider and his staff have done."

I think "wealth" may have been slightly hyperbolic, but it is great to see Swider's work being acknowledged by a pro scout. Hopefully Pete can stay healthy now and continue to turn heads, because he sure deserves a shot.

This is the first I've heard Pete's name mentioned as a possible NFL prospect!  Wouldn't that be something?  To have 2 guys go from the same CCIW school in 2 consecutive years?  That would be great for the school with the good Women's soccer program, the conference, and D3 as a whole!  Hopefully the 49ers put a lot of stock in what this guy says.

New Tradition,

Thank you for honoring my request on reference to the House that Swider built.

I had heard the Jets had been looking at him as well, but that may have just been a rumor.

[Tailgater]

For discussion purposes when and against who can we predict North Park getting thier next conference win. I looked at the remaining schedule and really think that it will be tough for them to find a W for the remainder of this year. I think that their best oppertunity would be when they are home against Milikin on Oct. 25.

I believe the closest they came was against Carthage during the 2004 season when they held Carthage to no offensive points.

They were also in a close game with IWU (20-14) last year and also in 2004 with Elmhurts (35-21).

The last conference victory was on October 7, 2000 when they defeated Elmhurst 31-21.

Well Son....since no one else has chimed in on your question I'll offer my thought. I'd have to say it won't happen this season (no disrespect intended). I do agree their best shot may be against Millikin. Until NP can develop a roster with a significant number of upperclassman and the experience that brings to the field it may be a while for them to crack the CCIW win column.... that is unless they have an amazing talented recruiting class soon. I don't see that materializing under current circumstances though.

[Mugsy]

For discussion purposes when and against who can we predict North Park getting thier next conference win. I looked at the remaining schedule and really think that it will be tough for them to find a W for the remainder of this year. I think that their best oppertunity would be when they are home against Milikin on Oct. 25.

I believe the closest they came was against Carthage during the 2004 season when they held Carthage to no offensive points.

They were also in a close game with IWU (20-14) last year and also in 2004 with Elmhurts (35-21).

The last conference victory was on October 7, 2000 when they defeated Elmhurst 31-21.

Well Son....since no one else has chimed in on your question I'll offer my thought. I'd have to say it won't happen this season (no disrespect intended). I do agree their best shot may be against Millikin. Until NP can develop a roster with a significant number of upperclassman and the experience that brings to the field it may be a while for them to crack the CCIW win column.... that is unless they have an amazing talented recruiting class soon. I don't see that materializing under current circumstances though.

Actually there have been a few responses to SOT's question:

From Greg Sager:

I went on record before the season started as saying that NPU will not win a CCIW game this season, and I'm sticking with that prediction. Of course, it goes without saying that I would be ecstatic if the boys in royal blue and gold proved me wrong -- especially if they did it at Hedstrand Field and all the North Park faithful therefore got to see the players raise their helmets and sing "Hail to the Varsity" after the game was over -- but I'm not counting on it.

From Mr. Ypsi:

FWIW (probably less than nothing), I'm currently co-leader in the CCIW pickems and I'm strongly leaning towards picking NPU over Millikin.  Fortunately I've still got two weeks before committing myself (or getting committed, as the case may be).

While NPU continues to gradually improve in some facets of the game, I don't see NPU winning a conference game until next year at the earliest.

[Neverwas]

I totally agree with you Thunderstones.  It doesn't seem right.  Also, I hope Norris does come to play on Saturday.  He is a good qb, he played pretty well with a poor oline last year but I don't fully trust 17-18 and 11-14 against two teams with a combined one win...It could be a coming out party for a lot of the younger thunder players especially at WR.

BEAT AUGIE!

[matblake]

Ok, now that I finally have a moment, I thought that I would chime in with some thoughts.  Although Wheaton v Augie is definitely an interesting match up, I'm really interested in the Carthage v Elmhurst game.  A Carthage win I think takes them off the "able to sneak up on opponents" train.  Jaybird has always said that Carthage is Elmhurst's big rivalry game, a win would be a big positive to the program still dealing with transition.  If Elmhurst wins some might want to question the strength of IWU, although the comparison game is dangerous at this early stage of the season. 

[orsky]

It's hard for me to imagine that Augie will be able to only rush 3 DL and put significant pressure on the QB.  I'm sure they're quick, but Wheaton does have some experience and size in the line.  It seems more likely that Wheaton will move the ball more effectively with Gingg getting some tough yards and Norris throwing underneath on slants, hooks and outs.  This will pull the LBs forward and allow some Iso's for deeper patterns.  Occasionally then throwing over the top to Pokorny who has great speed.  I don't think it will be easy at all, but I believe the offense is much more effective than they seem to get credit for.

I've also heard that there have been a number of pro teams looking at Pete including the Steelers, Jets and Jags.

[Gregory Sager]

I guess I was separating cause and effect in most of your arguments. Its impossible to argue against the link between the two since that is a subjective opinion. The notion that the sociological issues for NPU football players is unique to NPU I strongly disagree with. The reason those issues exist (they are a commuter school but fb players live on campus) may certainly be unique but there is no question other schools face the outcast mentalily of football players.

I may have confused the issue by introducing commuters into the discussion, so let me back up a bit. North Park is not a commuter school. Unlike North Central (52% resident, 48% commuter) and Elmhurst (40% resident, 60% commuter), resident students make up slightly less than a two-thirds majority of NPU's undergraduate population. While I agree that there are other schools in which football players may find themselves in an outcast or semi-outcast situation, I don't know of any others in which that pariah syndrome exists because of a religious- or lifestyle-based dichotomy between football players and most of the non-football players among the resident students.

I also would not compare NPU's futility to the likes of Macalaster (50 games), Columbia (44 games), Prairie View (80 games), Northwestern (34 games). Those schools lost ALL of their games over a long period of time. That is a different dynamic than just conference games. Not necessarily better or worse, just different. I think there is a big difference going 4+ yrs without winning a single game than a single conference game.

I didn't say that NPU's futility on the football field was totally unique. But those examples that you've cited are: a) a mere four instances compared to the overall pool of historically losing-prone schools in America in terms of football; and b) cherry-picked across college football history. None of the four losing streaks you cited are active ones. In fact, Northwestern is currently 5-0 and Prairie View A&M is currently 4-1, and we all know that Northwestern went to two consecutive bowl games in the mid-nineties. And, as I mentioned last night, Macalester has at least managed 5-5 and 4-5 seasons since leaving the MIAC in football at the start of this decade. When you look at the long sweep of history among college football programs, NPU's record of futility over the past forty-plus years is right up there down there with anybody's.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Earlier in the week I was browsing the NCAA D3 statistics website and I noticed that Wheaton and Augie are tied in total defense (highlighted by Keith in the Around the Nation article).

Both are tied for 19th at 240.75 yards per game.  In hindsight that would have made for an interesting wild card pick for the CCIW Pick-em's.  Which team will give up more yards given they are currently tied in total defense?

I wish I'd seen this in time - that would be a great wild card!  (I'll say Augie yields more yards.)  My wild card of Ladd's TD passes vs. Millikin is not terribly unbalanced (so far 10-5 for under 3.5), but I like yours better - where were you before I posted?

[AndOne]

I guess I was separating cause and effect in most of your arguments. Its impossible to argue against the link between the two since that is a subjective opinion. The notion that the sociological issues for NPU football players is unique to NPU I strongly disagree with. The reason those issues exist (they are a commuter school but fb players live on campus) may certainly be unique but there is no question other schools face the outcast mentalily of football players.

I may have confused the issue by introducing commuters into the discussion, so let me back up a bit. North Park is not a commuter school. Unlike North Central (52% resident, 48% commuter) and Elmhurst (40% resident, 60% commuter), resident students make up slightly less than a two-thirds majority of NPU's undergraduate population. While I agree that there are other schools in which football players may find themselves in an outcast or semi-outcast situation, I don't know of any others in which that pariah syndrome exists because of a religious- or lifestyle-based dichotomy between football players and most of the non-football players among the resident students.

While commuter students currently actually make up 47% of the North Central undergrad population, I believe the vast majority of both football players, and the members of all the other athletic teams live on campus, even if they are from towns in the northwest, west, and southwest suburbs closest to Naperville. Most of the athletes who don't live in the dorms are upperclassmen who live in apartments in very close proximity to campus. A very very small percentage return to their parents homes at night. I have not personally seen or really even heard of any instances where NCC athletes are in any way "separated" from the rest of the  resident population who do not participate in athletics. 

[AndOne]

Although I have been highly entertained by reading the messages on this board for three years now, I am making my very first post so please be gentle with me. 
I think that the competition in the CCIW this year is better than it has been for at least the past three years and should result in some very entertaining and well-played games. 
(Still licking my wounds from last Saturday)
I look forward to an extremely fun football season and even more enlightening banter with you fellow posters. 
(Now that I can do this, I can also voice my opinion on the CCIW)

Welcome to the board, Mr. Scalcucci. (Dad) 
As a little background, I can tell you that dad's son is, I believe, IWU's 3rd leading receiver this season. He was a standout athlete at Batavia HS, including being a good enough basketball player to draw college interest, including at least one other CCIW school.

[Gregory Sager]

I guess I was separating cause and effect in most of your arguments. Its impossible to argue against the link between the two since that is a subjective opinion. The notion that the sociological issues for NPU football players is unique to NPU I strongly disagree with. The reason those issues exist (they are a commuter school but fb players live on campus) may certainly be unique but there is no question other schools face the outcast mentalily of football players.

I may have confused the issue by introducing commuters into the discussion, so let me back up a bit. North Park is not a commuter school. Unlike North Central (52% resident, 48% commuter) and Elmhurst (40% resident, 60% commuter), resident students make up slightly less than a two-thirds majority of NPU's undergraduate population. While I agree that there are other schools in which football players may find themselves in an outcast or semi-outcast situation, I don't know of any others in which that pariah syndrome exists because of a religious- or lifestyle-based dichotomy between football players and most of the non-football players among the resident students.

While commuter students currently actually make up 47% of the North Central undergrad population, I believe the vast majority of both football players, and the members of all the other athletic teams live on campus, even if they are from towns in the northwest, west, and southwest suburbs closest to Naperville. Most of the athletes who don't live in the dorms are upperclassmen who live in apartments in very close proximity to campus. A very very small percentage return to their parents homes at night. I have not personally seen or really even heard of any instances where NCC athletes are in any way "separated" from the rest of the  resident population who do not participate in athletics. 

Where are your percentages taken from? Mine are taken from the Petersons online site. Just curious.

I wasn't implying that North Central or Elmhurst have commuter-based football teams. On the contrary, from what I've seen it's pretty typical for football programs (and other athletic programs as well) to push residential living for their players at colleges and universities that have a mixed polity, such as NPU, NCC, and EC. Residential living increases team cohesiveness and makes it easier for coaches and staff to monitor the players. And of course NCC football players don't have the same issues concerning social separation from the general student population that their NPU counterparts do, because NCC football players are generally drawn from the same demographic as the rest of the NCC resident students.

[AndOne]

Greg---

From the NCC web site. I believe it was just updated following final enrollment figures at the start of the school year, which for NCC was 9/15.

[Gregory Sager]

Greg---

From the NCC web site. I believe it was just updated following final enrollment figures at the start of the school year, which for NCC was 9/15.

I didn't think that NCC posted that data on its website. Thanks. I'll look there for it from now on.

[dad of a titan]

Although I have been highly entertained by reading the messages on this board for three years now, I am making my very first post so please be gentle with me. 
I think that the competition in the CCIW this year is better than it has been for at least the past three years and should result in some very entertaining and well-played games. 
(Still licking my wounds from last Saturday)
I look forward to an extremely fun football season and even more enlightening banter with you fellow posters. 
(Now that I can do this, I can also voice my opinion on the CCIW)

Welcome to the board, Mr. Scalcucci. (Dad) 
As a little background, I can tell you that dad's son is, I believe, IWU's 3rd leading receiver this season. He was a standout athlete at Batavia HS, including being a good enough basketball player to draw college interest, including at least one other CCIW school.

I did not realize that the e-mail address is listed in the profile of the poster.  It takes a little away from the fun of posting when everyone knows who you are....
Had I known that I would have set up a different account... (Already did) 
Thanks all for the warm welcome... 

[Gregory Sager]

Although I have been highly entertained by reading the messages on this board for three years now, I am making my very first post so please be gentle with me. 
I think that the competition in the CCIW this year is better than it has been for at least the past three years and should result in some very entertaining and well-played games. 
(Still licking my wounds from last Saturday)
I look forward to an extremely fun football season and even more enlightening banter with you fellow posters. 
(Now that I can do this, I can also voice my opinion on the CCIW)

Welcome to the board, Mr. Scalcucci. (Dad) 
As a little background, I can tell you that dad's son is, I believe, IWU's 3rd leading receiver this season. He was a standout athlete at Batavia HS, including being a good enough basketball player to draw college interest, including at least one other CCIW school.

I did not realize that the e-mail address is listed in the profile of the poster.  It takes a little away from the fun of posting when everyone knows who you are....

It does?

I don't judge those who choose to post anonymously. But I've always felt that if I have something to say on these boards, then I ought to take responsibility for my words by attaching my name to them. It's a good curb to any impulse I may have to post something that I'll regret later (although that doesn't always work ), and a good way to keep myself accountable.