FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[usee]

I've got a red balloon tied to my mailbox, which is the international sign for "PARTY OVER HEEEEEERE!!!!"  A round of Karma for everyone!!!

Nicely done. Welcome to the Klub. 

[New Tradition]

I've got a red balloon tied to my mailbox, which is the international sign for "PARTY OVER HEEEEEERE!!!!"  A round of Karma for everyone!!!

Nicely done. Welcome to the Klub. 

Haha thanks, usee.  And thanks for counting down for me.  That was fun.  Thanks to everyone else for all of the encouragement too.

[robertgoulet]

I've got a red balloon tied to my mailbox, which is the international sign for "PARTY OVER HEEEEEERE!!!!"  A round of Karma for everyone!!!

Nicely done. Welcome to the Klub. 

Haha thanks, usee.  And thanks for counting down for me.  That was fun.  Thanks to everyone else for all of the encouragement too.

It's all down hill from here. The next step is realizing you just spent your whole day counting down a user's post-count on an online message board instead of eating dinner...and the wife. is. not. happy!

[ncc58]

That Karma will really come in handy NEXT WEEK.   

I've got a red balloon tied to my mailbox, which is the international sign for "PARTY OVER HEEEEEERE!!!!"  A round of Karma for everyone!!!

[NCC.2008]

Whats next week? 

[orsky]

I just don't see that the name of the school or their mascot is denigrating to a specific group or ethinicity.  I understand that people want to stand on a podium and cry foul to draw attention to their current cause, but does it really harm anyone.  The PC nature of our society leads us down this path for no real reason.

There have been so many fun names for high school and college teams over the years and I played on one of them, but I never felt inferior or slighted due to the ridiculous nickname.  And I'm positive nobody was oppressed or heavy burdened outside of our school system.  In fact, I think in most cases, other schools just laughed along with us. 

As a freshman, we were Buttons, as Sophs we were Snappers and as Varsity we were Zippers.  Garment workers didn't unite to overthrow our logos.  Seamstresses weren't crying in a huddled mass, thread wrapped around their necks.  No, all of this is was in great fun.  Sports are for fun and entertainment.  They're not life and death.  One of my favorite cheers ever was, "The ______'s can clown around, but they can't get our Zippers down!"  What a classic.  I'm smiling now remembering the humor in all of it.

[robertgoulet]

Whats next week? 

Silva vs. Cote?

[Carthage Fan]

Carthage was the "Redmen" with a feather logo and a Native American theme.  The NCAA ruled that this name was offensive to Native Americans and so they changed their name to the Red Men to associate with the uniform colors from the 1920's.  The also eliminated the feathers and added the torch.  Not sure how the torch relates, but there it is.

The torch mascot, aka "Torchy", doesn't postdate the name change, orsky. He was walking around at Carthage sporting events and making us all laugh at his goofy appearance (friend and foe of Carthage alike) back when Carthage was still called the Redmen. He's derived from the school seal, which includes a torch that's supposed to represent the flame of knowledge (you can see an abstract rendering of it in the upper left corner of the Carthage website's front page). In theory, the "red" in "Red Men" and "Lady Reds" is now supposed to be a reference to that flame of knowledge.

This was all the result of a fairly well-thought-out maneuver by Carthage's leadership to circumvent NCAA sanctions. By altering the spelling of the school's sports nickname, and by tying the new nickname to a preexisting mascot and to the school seal, Carthage dodged the cudgels of the NCAA nabobs while making a concerted effort to tie the new nickname and new featherless logo to the school's existing symbols and traditions. I give Carthage College credit for that, but then again I've always viewed the school as the victim of a heavy-handed mandate imposed upon it by an organization that overstepped its bounds. I vehemently disagree with the NCAA's strongarm tactics in enforcing political correctness upon its members.

BTW... there is a "New Torchy" he looks like a giant Cheeto!

Worst mascot ever!

Link to a pic of the new Torchy!

http://www.printroom.com/ViewGalleryPhoto.asp?shopperid=T9KVPP9K5BSN8KXH72VQ9V1BDNPQ3GUC&userid=tripposcar&gallery_id=1309050&image_id=40

[Carthage Fan]

Carthage was the "Redmen" with a feather logo and a Native American theme.  The NCAA ruled that this name was offensive to Native Americans and so they changed their name to the Red Men to associate with the uniform colors from the 1920's.  The also eliminated the feathers and added the torch.  Not sure how the torch relates, but there it is.

The torch mascot, aka "Torchy", doesn't postdate the name change, orsky. He was walking around at Carthage sporting events and making us all laugh at his goofy appearance (friend and foe of Carthage alike) back when Carthage was still called the Redmen. He's derived from the school seal, which includes a torch that's supposed to represent the flame of knowledge (you can see an abstract rendering of it in the upper left corner of the Carthage website's front page). In theory, the "red" in "Red Men" and "Lady Reds" is now supposed to be a reference to that flame of knowledge.

This was all the result of a fairly well-thought-out maneuver by Carthage's leadership to circumvent NCAA sanctions. By altering the spelling of the school's sports nickname, and by tying the new nickname to a preexisting mascot and to the school seal, Carthage dodged the cudgels of the NCAA nabobs while making a concerted effort to tie the new nickname and new featherless logo to the school's existing symbols and traditions. I give Carthage College credit for that, but then again I've always viewed the school as the victim of a heavy-handed mandate imposed upon it by an organization that overstepped its bounds. I vehemently disagree with the NCAA's strongarm tactics in enforcing political correctness upon its members.

BTW... there is a "New Torchy" he looks like a giant Cheeto!

Worst mascot ever!

Worst mascot ever next to the Chicago White Sox mascot...

You know what I just found out?  The Cubs don't have a mascot.  Apparently they could never find a costume that resembled a man choking himself.   

[Mugsy]

Link to a pic of the new Torchy!

http://www.printroom.com/ViewGalleryPhoto.asp?shopperid=T9KVPP9K5BSN8KXH72VQ9V1BDNPQ3GUC&userid=tripposcar&gallery_id=1309050&image_id=40

Looks like the twin brother of the villian in "The Incredibles" movie - Syndrome.

[oldnuthin]

Carthage was the "Redmen" with a feather logo and a Native American theme.  The NCAA ruled that this name was offensive to Native Americans and so they changed their name to the Red Men to associate with the uniform colors from the 1920's.  The also eliminated the feathers and added the torch.  Not sure how the torch relates, but there it is.

The torch mascot, aka "Torchy", doesn't postdate the name change, orsky. He was walking around at Carthage sporting events and making us all laugh at his goofy appearance (friend and foe of Carthage alike) back when Carthage was still called the Redmen. He's derived from the school seal, which includes a torch that's supposed to represent the flame of knowledge (you can see an abstract rendering of it in the upper left corner of the Carthage website's front page). In theory, the "red" in "Red Men" and "Lady Reds" is now supposed to be a reference to that flame of knowledge.

This was all the result of a fairly well-thought-out maneuver by Carthage's leadership to circumvent NCAA sanctions. By altering the spelling of the school's sports nickname, and by tying the new nickname to a preexisting mascot and to the school seal, Carthage dodged the cudgels of the NCAA nabobs while making a concerted effort to tie the new nickname and new featherless logo to the school's existing symbols and traditions. I give Carthage College credit for that, but then again I've always viewed the school as the victim of a heavy-handed mandate imposed upon it by an organization that overstepped its bounds. I vehemently disagree with the NCAA's strongarm tactics in enforcing political correctness upon its members.

BTW... there is a "New Torchy" he looks like a giant Cheeto!

Worst mascot ever!

Link to a pic of the new Torchy!

http://www.printroom.com/ViewGalleryPhoto.asp?shopperid=T9KVPP9K5BSN8KXH72VQ9V1BDNPQ3GUC&userid=tripposcar&gallery_id=1309050&image_id=40

I like the mascot and the comparison.

[Tailgater]

Carthage was the "Redmen" with a feather logo and a Native American theme.  The NCAA ruled that this name was offensive to Native Americans and so they changed their name to the Red Men to associate with the uniform colors from the 1920's.  The also eliminated the feathers and added the torch.  Not sure how the torch relates, but there it is.

Carthage Illinois high school was indeed the Blue Boys until they consolidated with La Harpe and Dallas City 2 years ago and the school is now called Illini West with a nickname of the Chargers.

Sorry, but that is just not completely accurate information. I've had this conversation with President Campbell, particularly prior to the Board of Trustees voting to change the logo in 2006 to appease the NCAA wishes. The Red Men had no association with Native American Indians in the past nor today. In the 1960's someone at the school was commissioned to develop a logo. What else could be thought of in regards to Red Men?? which morphed into Redmen and now back to the original Red Men nickname. I am not, but should be, clear as to the reasoning behind the feathers which I'm fairly sure had Native Americans in mind at the time of it's implementation, but not intended as representation.

The Torch has always been a symbol at the school before and during my affiliation with Carthage. The Flame is the official symbol of Carthage. Flame imagery characterizes both the academic and athletic identity at Carthage. The crest of the College features a torch and flame. The highest award conferred by the College is the "Carthage Flame". Son of Tailgater was awarded the "Flame Leadership" award in 2004. The athletic logotypes for the Red Men and Lady Reds feature a stylized flame symbolizing heat, fire and commitment. The athletic mascot is "Torchy".... a strange torch like creature with flames coming out of it's head.

[Tailgater]

Carthage was the "Redmen" with a feather logo and a Native American theme.  The NCAA ruled that this name was offensive to Native Americans and so they changed their name to the Red Men to associate with the uniform colors from the 1920's.  The also eliminated the feathers and added the torch.  Not sure how the torch relates, but there it is.

The torch mascot, aka "Torchy", doesn't postdate the name change, orsky. He was walking around at Carthage sporting events and making us all laugh at his goofy appearance (friend and foe of Carthage alike) back when Carthage was still called the Redmen. He's derived from the school seal, which includes a torch that's supposed to represent the flame of knowledge (you can see an abstract rendering of it in the upper left corner of the Carthage website's front page). In theory, the "red" in "Red Men" and "Lady Reds" is now supposed to be a reference to that flame of knowledge.

This was all the result of a fairly well-thought-out maneuver by Carthage's leadership to circumvent NCAA sanctions. By altering the spelling of the school's sports nickname, and by tying the new nickname to a preexisting mascot and to the school seal, Carthage dodged the cudgels of the NCAA nabobs while making a concerted effort to tie the new nickname and new featherless logo to the school's existing symbols and traditions. I give Carthage College credit for that, but then again I've always viewed the school as the victim of a heavy-handed mandate imposed upon it by an organization that overstepped its bounds. I vehemently disagree with the NCAA's strongarm tactics in enforcing political correctness upon its members.

The info I have been citing comes directly (almost word for word) out of the Carthage Media guides dating back to 2002. The change in logo and the separation of the Red Men name back to it's original form was made in order to be able to host NCAA playoff games. In 2004 We missed an opportunity to host a first round playoff game not because of inferred Native American imagery, but because the Carthage Press Box (deer stand) was not up to NCAA standards. President Campbell rectified this for the 2005 season.

[FormerCard]

About 5 years ago, we were enjoying the brats and cookies and someone commented that it was free - well except for what we paid to become alumni. Of course, we're much older than you and our brats and cookies only cost us in the neighborhood of $16,000.

I need to find a job like you guys have....
I barely have enough time to keep up with all the postings.....

Should have gone to North Central then!!  8)

That way you don't have to work AND you can stand in the endzone during games and stuff your face with free brats and cookies!   (or $100,000 brats, if you want to factor in what you paid to go to NCC)

The best part is this year (at least against Ohio Northern) they had the stands in the endzone..not sure if that is going to continue or not.

I think it was Carthage a few years ago where one of the alumni almost got into it with an alum from Carthage...  it always makes for an interesting afternoon when Carthage and NC hook up. 

I am going to give my prediction here on the CCIW board.

28-20 NCC.  

I am hoping for less points than that but Carthage is #2 in total offense and I think that will translate into 3 scores.

I can see NCC scoring once on D and once on special teams. (offense picks up 2 scores)

[AndOne]

JMHO----
RE: The the above Redmen vs Red Men discussion:

The nambie-pambies at the NCAA ought to find more constructive things to do with their time than to issue a blanket condemnation of all Indian related logos/images as being offensive to Native Americans. Was there any record of any individual Native American or Native American group filing a complaint? I sincerely doubt that when the Carthage administration chose the name Redmen, they did so with any intent or even thought of demeaning Native Americans in any way, shape, or form.

I realize the CC President and trustees had to change the name for economic reasons and to avoid sanctions after being backed into a corner by the NCAA. I do think it was pretty clever just to separate the Redmen name and make it Red Men. However, rather than Red Men, how do our CC posters feel about Flames, given that a flame is part of the school seal?

I think its a sad day when the NCAA makes an issue out of a perceived rather that real offense. The people who should have been offended were the players, alums, and fans who proudly played for and cheered the Redmen.