FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mugsy]

jaybird,

You're certainly entitled (heck, encouraged!) to keep hope in your heart, but this year it looks like there will be 1-loss teams missing the playoffs.  Any team with 2 (regional) losses is the longest of longshots.

I see Mugsy beat me to it, but it's not just the North - it seems unlikely ANY 2-loss teams anywhere will make it without an AQ.

Jaybird: Hit me with it! I've waited a long time to see the BlueJays in the post seaon, Mr. Ypsi. The least you can do is level with me. What are their chances?
Mr Ypsi: Not good.
Jaybird: You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?
Mr Ypsi: I'd say more like one out of a million.
[pause]
Jaybird: So you're telling me there's a chance.

[Comet 14]

Dumb & Dumber or in this case jaybird and Comet

[Mugsy]

Dumb & Dumber or in this case jaybird and Comet

Nice pickup... K+

[Augie6]

My last comment on if Elmhurst belongs in the "Augie6 top 45' . Using The Others recieving votes (ORV). teams 40 through 46 are # 40 Carleton SOS 141 9 points better than Elmhurst. They are 6-2,4-2 in the 7th ranked (preseason) conference. They lost to Gustavus Adolphus (6-2,4-2) and St. Thomas (5-3,4-3).
#41 Curry SOS 145 5 points better than Elmhurst. They are 8-1,5-1 While playing in NEFC Conference ranked 24th strongest (again preseason). They lost to Plymoth ST. (8-1,6-0) #42 Gustavus Adolphus with by far the best SOS of any team in the ORV of 81. They play in the MIAC the 7th strongest conference. They are 6-2, 4-2 and lost to St.Johns (6-2,4-2) and St.Thomas (5-3,4-3). #43 Hobart SOS-146 only 4 points better than Elmhurst. They are 6-1,4-1 and play in LL the 13th ranked conference. They lost to Union (4-3,2-3). #44 Plymouth State SOS of 133 17 points better than Elmhurst. They also play in the NEFC the 24th ranked conference. They are 8-1, 6-0 ther only loss to a 3-5 Mt. Ida. #45 St. Johns Fisher a SOS of 181 31 points worse than Elmhurst They play in the 4th ranked coference E8. Their 3 losses coming to #1 MT. Union to (6-1,3-1) Hartwick and to (7-2,1-1) Salisbury. #46 is Moravion their SOS is 159 9 points worse than Elmhurst. They play in CC the 11th ranked conference and are 7-2, 5-2 they lost to Dickinson (4-4,3-3) and to Gettysburgh (3-5,3-3) compared to Elmhurst who's SOS is 150 they are 6-2, 3-3 in the 5th best conference in the country and there losses were to Augustana (6-2,4-1) and to IWU (5-3, 2-3) So yes I would say that Elmhurst belongs in this discussion. And for the last time I did not nor have I ever said that Elmhurst belongs in the top 25.

Comet,

OK, I give up.  Once I can get rid of my headache from reading through your post, I'm willing to proclaim Elmhurst as the best team in the CCIW and worthy of top ten consideration......

[Comet 14]

Works for me Augie6 + K for You.

[79jaybird]

Jim Carey with a sarcastic grin:   "SOOO You're telling me there is a chance." 
D&D is one of my favorite Jim Carey movies. 

I have asked various EC coaches why they continue to schedule certain teams and if/when we would looking to upgrade to a WIAC or other stronger opponent school.  I have been given mixed reactions and thoughts.

[Mr. Ypsi]

And the WIAC is desperately seeking opponents!  It's a real shame that UWW and UWEC had to play each other twice to fill their schedules.

[Mugsy]

I have asked various EC coaches why they continue to schedule certain teams and if/when we would looking to upgrade to a WIAC or other stronger opponent school.  I have been given mixed reactions and thoughts.

Hopefully this won't spin into a re-hash of an often debated topic...

I think it is helpful in the long run for most schools to schedule tougher competition during the non-conference part of the season, as it provides a better test for your team and gives a better viewpoint of areas that need to be improved vs. what is a strength going into the season.

Unfortunately there are many other factors that come into play:

1. The relative availability of other schools from a scheduling standpoint
2. The proximity of the opposing institution (factors into budgeting)
3. The depth of your team.  Scheduling tough competition could back fire if you don't have depth and your starters are decimated with injury.
4. etc...

To me the key point I was trying to drive home (but failed miserably) and Augie6 alluded too:  If you want to go to the playoffs, win all of your conference games.  Going 3-0 or 2-1 in non-conference could help you if the competition was good, but you must win your conference.  

If Elmhurst goes 8-2, that is a significant improvement but will not result in a playoff bid (this year), nor will it necessarily result in a significant bump in top 25 notice.  Beat everyone in the CCIW (in the same year  ), go to the playoffs and make some noise, then you'll start getting the votes.

[New Tradition]

A big part of rankings is based on history.  Whether we like it or not, the history of a team over the last few seasons will still impact their ranking (or potential to be ranked) in a current season.  That being said, I agree that the ranking should be based on what a team has done this year.  And what Elmhurst has done this year is not nearly enough to even be on the radar for a top 25 ranking (an opinion that seems to be shared by just about everyone else on this board except you and JB).  What you have is a team that has beaten 4 bad teams, one average team, one good team (but probably ranked much higher than they should have been) and lost to two pretty good teams that have not received top 25 votes. 

Again, I didn't bring this topic up, but instead responded to a post that I felt was just way over the top in terms of where Elmhurst stands as a team/program.  If Elmhurst can beat NCC this year, I'll be the first to say that maybe they have something going.  But until something like that happens, I tend to believe Elmhurst's victory against Wheaton was much more exception than rule. 

I agree with this completely.  I think that the '05 Cardinal team is comparable with this team, and was undefeated going into week 9 against Augie just like the '08 Cardinals, but were only ranked 11th nationally.  Before the '05 season, they had never been in the top 25, and had only received votes here and there.  Since the Cardinals have been players on the national stage every year since (and including) the '05 season, pollsters are more likely to throw votes their way now that North Central's name has been in the mix for a couple of years and people know who we are, IMHO.

[FormerCard]

My sophomore year, Cam Kniss had mono and missed a couple games, including the wheaton game.  Must be a NCC quarterback thing.

Usee... I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.  I'm guessing you're a pretty big stats guy based on some of your previous posts.  looking back at last year, it's hard to distinguish who performed better between Kyle and Sean.  They both split reps, albeit with sean taking about 60% of them, until north park and elmhurst when kyle started because of injuries to sean and then sean was named the started before carthage.  Kyle did a lot more than just "step in" against north park last season, as his numbers will show you.  I'll give you that sean did play well against NCC last year, but I wouldn't say he played well against Augie and definitely not against Wesleyan when we were playing from behind.  Again, I'm not arguing for one quarterback over the other.  I just want to state that if the starter is struggling, there is definitely a proven quarterback on the bench that can step in.  Both are quality quarterbacks and can win games.  

Probably the first time in 6 years I have seen his name spelled "Cam"   

I just had to say something since no one else did.

It is spelled Kam,  thats Kam with a "K" just for future references if anyone happens to make them.

Soooo... Its good to see Peet Iddersagen staying healthy this year      Has the performance of Wheaton and his lack of numbers had any effect on the his All-Conference status year?  I would say no since I saw him play and know how talented he is, but what does the board think?

[Mugsy]

Soooo... Its good to see Peet Iddersagen staying healthy this year      Has the performance of Wheaton and his lack of numbers had any effect on the his All-Conference status year?  I would say no since I saw him play and know how talented he is, but what does the board think?

I honestly didn't expect Pete's numbers related to playing DB to be too noticeable, as I expected many teams to avoid him where possible.  What I didn't expect was him being noticeable for all the wrong reasons, like at Elmhurst. 

One bad game will not eliminate him from 1st Team All-CCIW honors.  He is still an awesome cover DB and outstanding tackler.  I do not think he is a front runner for CCIW DPOY - that will  be Wengers to lose with Wright close behind.  I do wonder if his All-American status is in jeopardy, because he does not appear to be playing at the same level as last year and because Wheaton's year has lost it's luster.  If he had a chance to make serious plays in a playoff setting, that would help his chances.  But that will not be happening this year.

[FormerCard]

Soooo... Its good to see Peet Iddersagen staying healthy this year      Has the performance of Wheaton and his lack of numbers had any effect on the his All-Conference status year?  I would say no since I saw him play and know how talented he is, but what does the board think?

I honestly didn't expect Pete's numbers related to playing DB to be too noticeable, as I expected many teams to avoid him where possible.  What I didn't expect was him being noticeable for all the wrong reasons, like at Elmhurst. 

One bad game will not eliminate him from 1st Team All-CCIW honors.  He is still an awesome cover DB and outstanding tackler.  I do not think he is a front runner for CCIW DPOY - that will  be Wengers to lose with Wright close behind.  I do wonder if his All-American status is in jeopardy, because he does not appear to be playing at the same level as last year and because Wheaton's year has lost it's luster.  If he had a chance to make serious plays in a playoff setting, that would help his chances.  But that will not be happening this year.

It is harder to judge a DB's talent and value than it is a LB.  Wenger is a good example. He can run free and follow the ball.  He is in on almost every play because he is not locked on a receiver, or playing the flats or deep third. 

Ittersagen on the other hand is sometimes at the mercy of his D line because you can only cover a guy for so long.  If they are not getting pressure and he is on an island, it gets very difficult to defend, I dont care who you are.

Talent wise, he is a definite 1st team All-American, but you are right.  With no playoff run and lackluster statistics, it will be a stretch for the voters.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Soooo... Its good to see Peet Iddersagen staying healthy this year      Has the performance of Wheaton and his lack of numbers had any effect on the his All-Conference status year?  I would say no since I saw him play and know how talented he is, but what does the board think?

I honestly didn't expect Pete's numbers related to playing DB to be too noticeable, as I expected many teams to avoid him where possible.  What I didn't expect was him being noticeable for all the wrong reasons, like at Elmhurst. 

One bad game will not eliminate him from 1st Team All-CCIW honors.  He is still an awesome cover DB and outstanding tackler.  I do not think he is a front runner for CCIW DPOY - that will  be Wengers to lose with Wright close behind.  I do wonder if his All-American status is in jeopardy, because he does not appear to be playing at the same level as last year and because Wheaton's year has lost it's luster.  If he had a chance to make serious plays in a playoff setting, that would help his chances.  But that will not be happening this year.

It is harder to judge a DB's talent and value than it is a LB.  Wenger is a good example. He can run free and follow the ball.  He is in on almost every play because he is not locked on a receiver, or playing the flats or deep third. 

Ittersagen on the other hand is sometimes at the mercy of his D line because you can only cover a guy for so long.  If they are not getting pressure and he is on an island, it gets very difficult to defend, I dont care who you are.

Talent wise, he is a definite 1st team All-American, but you are right.  With no playoff run and lackluster statistics, it will be a stretch for the voters.

Hopefully they will take note of UM's Charles Woodson when he became the only primarily defensive player to win the Heisman.  His stats were not at all remarkable, but voters apparently recognized that the reason was that no sane opponent would challenge him on pass defense, or kick to him on return situations.

[Augie6]

Soooo... Its good to see Peet Iddersagen staying healthy this year      Has the performance of Wheaton and his lack of numbers had any effect on the his All-Conference status year?  I would say no since I saw him play and know how talented he is, but what does the board think?

I honestly didn't expect Pete's numbers related to playing DB to be too noticeable, as I expected many teams to avoid him where possible.  What I didn't expect was him being noticeable for all the wrong reasons, like at Elmhurst. 

One bad game will not eliminate him from 1st Team All-CCIW honors.  He is still an awesome cover DB and outstanding tackler.  I do not think he is a front runner for CCIW DPOY - that will  be Wengers to lose with Wright close behind.  I do wonder if his All-American status is in jeopardy, because he does not appear to be playing at the same level as last year and because Wheaton's year has lost it's luster.  If he had a chance to make serious plays in a playoff setting, that would help his chances.  But that will not be happening this year.

It is harder to judge a DB's talent and value than it is a LB.  Wenger is a good example. He can run free and follow the ball.  He is in on almost every play because he is not locked on a receiver, or playing the flats or deep third. 

Ittersagen on the other hand is sometimes at the mercy of his D line because you can only cover a guy for so long.  If they are not getting pressure and he is on an island, it gets very difficult to defend, I dont care who you are.

Talent wise, he is a definite 1st team All-American, but you are right.  With no playoff run and lackluster statistics, it will be a stretch for the voters.

Hopefully they will take note of UM's Charles Woodson when he became the only primarily defensive player to win the Heisman.  His stats were not at all remarkable, but voters apparently recognized that the reason was that no sane opponent would challenge him on pass defense, or kick to him on return situations.

Although I'm don't believe Charles Woodson had any games that year like the one (based on other's accounts) that Ittersagen had last weekend.  Regardless of what happens with the All-American selections, I find it hard to believe there is as skilled a DB playing in DIII.

[usee]

I think there should be no question that ittersagen is a first team all CCIW and first team all american. I would be very sruprised if he didn't win both those awards easily. I do not think he will be DPOY. I think Wenger has that wrapped up. I also don't think Wright is a close second. I think Randy Wright is a great talent but he isn't quite where Wenger is physically. Wenger is stronger and can take on blockers where Randy still gets tied up inside in the running game. They are both very fast and athletic and have great instincts for the ball. Wenger is on a different level right now IMO.

I do think ittersagen's performance Saturday may have cost him a shot in the NFL. He may still get a look in a camp or a tryout but scouts are going to see that tape and say if he can't cover Matt D'Angelo (no offense to matt) how is he going to cover Marty Booker and Rashied Davies? He has a great chance to redeem himself this weekend because Norm will as usual challenge ittersagen several times so Pete better be ready.