FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Pat Coleman]

Ryan Tipps and Keith McMillan both predicted NCC to lose against Carthage in week 6 as well. IMO, the predictions made my Kieth and Pat do nothing more than make the players want to win even more. We all know that they players and coaches are on here reading the posts and looking at the predictions, and they will be well aware that the D3football "Guru's" (as they like to be called) predicted them to lose. It's just adding fuel to the fire, and I like it.

If they need that kind of motivation then they are in serious trouble.

[Mr. Ypsi]

For the record NCC.2008 I don't know that they liked to be called Guru's. Thats just something I like to call them. I call them that out of respect for there knowledge of D3 football.( all sports for that matter).

Check out Pat's 'nametag':  d3 sports.com Guru - I think he approves the title!

[ncc58]

My view is that you're worrying about the weather too much. They're not playing in a mudpit. They're playing on Field Turf. And if the field was playable back in their first game, the field will be fine tomorrow.

And, unless it's some kind of mysterious rain, it will be raining on Augie as well. Let's suppose it is cold and it is rainy. And let's assume that takes the passing game out of the equation. Great. NCC has done a great job against the run all year. And if they don't have to play the pass, I'm feeling awfully good.

NCC leads the CCIW in turnover margin. So, in bad conditions, they should have a huge advantage. I would worry more about perfect conditions when Podulka has the whole field to use.

If there is a trademark to a John Thorne, it's that they play hard to the end of the season. The previous two years, the season looked lost after losses to Wheaton. Yet, the team went on to win their remaining games. That got them the CCIW championship and playoff games. Under Thorne, NCC knows how to finish the season.

[letsplay2]

Well i've been away for a little while and i feel the need to defend some of my comments, even though the conversation is dead. 

I suggested that it "might be time" to put him in given Norris had just thrown a pretty crucial pick 6 early in the game that gave elmhurst a huge swing of momentum.  Is that not his fault? 

No, it wasn't his fault. The TD return of the INT was on a 3 step drop (pokorny running a slant I believe). It is the offensive linemen's job to attack the defensive line to insure there are throwing lanes. That didn't happen and the ball was batted and happened to be interecepted. That is not the qb's fault. His underthrown long ball was definately on him later in the game but that in and of itself is not a reason to replace him.

Be very careful when you blame the offensive line for interceptions. Sacks, yes... but interceptions; careful.  it is their responsibility to keep the Dlinemens hands down on a three step, but it is also the QBs responsibility to throw on his 3rd step.  If the QB holds on to the ball a split second too long, the offensive line can only do so much to keep the Dlines hands down.  This argument also favors Kyle, given that Kyle is 6'2" and Sean is 6'.  QB height plays a huge factor in balls batted down, as was proven last week in the bears game when Grossman stepped in for an injured Orton.  Orton had maybe 2-3 balls batted down at the line of scrimmage all year, while Grossman had 2 batted down in the second half alone.  Also, using this argument, do you believe the int to the NCC D lineman was the offensive lines fault?  That was clearly Seans fault as he held on to the ball way to long and then dropped his arm slot to throw the shallow route.   

Like i said Norris has proven that he is shaky in big games or when his back is against the wall. 

I disagree with this. I am sure you remember the NCC and Augie games last year. Pretty big games? I think Norris had long TD passes in both of those that won the game. I don't think he has proven he is shaky in big games. In fact I think, with the beating he has taken, that he is pretty tough and poised. But that's my observation.

Obviously, having played in those games, i probably remember them better than you.  They were definitely big games.  I made a mistake and  in my previous post and stated that sean struggled against augie and played well against NCC when i meant to say the opposite.  Sean had a very poor first half against NCC, going 4-12 with an interception returned for a TD (that was definitely his fault).  the int was on his second pass of the game.  He was definitely rattled early in the game, and he struggled the rest of the half.  We did make some great second half adjustments and sean executed when he needed to, but it wasn't without the help of a safety biting on an underneath route allowing Dreyer to clear the secondary.  Sean played much better in the second half, but if it wasn't for the performance in the first half we might not have been in the situation we were.  obviously you can attribute the first half shutout only to him, but he is the QB, and the QB has to be able to live with having the responsibility of shouldering much of the offenses performance, good or bad, given you touch the ball every single play.  Augie was similar, except he played well in the first half and struggled in the second, overthrowing some open receiver which killed drives which contributed to augie being able to get back into the game.  We had control of the game until our drives began stalling in the second half.

Ive played with both quarterbacks and will tell you first hand that Kyle is a much more poised quarterback and does not get rattled nearly as much as sean does in pressure situations.  Against north central sean was clearly rattled and made some bad decisions and some bad throws becasue of it.  Same happened in Elmhurst.  My "bias" comes from what i have seen, not from who I'm related to. 

I think against North Central and Elmhurst he was clearly getting killed (vs rattled) and that wouldn't have been any different with Tony Romo at QB let alone Kyle. I think the coaches have made the right decision. I like Kyle as a qb but I don't see where he has "proven" anything. He stepped in last year and won against North Park but he didn't wow anybody with his performance at IWU. In fact, he got killed in that game. Sean seems to me to have the ability to make something happen and keep a play alive. He also is a lot faster than Kyle. Don't get me wrong, I think Kyle is a capable qb I just don't see any reason to change. But neither of us is coaching so our opinions don'tr really matter right? 

Youre obviously a big stat guy, but you clearly made this statement without taking a look at last years stats.  How can you possibly say kyle hasnt proven anything??  I already said in a previous post that kyle and sean both split reps pretty evenly and then kyle started against north park, elmhurst and wesleyan.  they both threw for around 155 yards/game yet kyle had 9 tds to 1 int while sean had 11 tds to 8 ints.  kyle also completed 63.6% of his passes and had a rating of 169.51 with sean completing 55.3 and a rating of 139.15.  You say kyle didn't wow anyone against wesleyan.  i guess 10-13 for 150 yards, 1td and no int's isn't that impressive then.  You are REALLY hard to impress.  you might also like to know that we were up 7-6 when kyle left the game with a torn hamstring.  Sean came in and continued the drive while throwing a td, putting us up 14-6.  yet, once we relinquished the lead, norris went 4-13, while getting pressured just as much as kyle.  once again, the pressure rattled norris and his performance suffered.  By the way, how do you know sean is "a lot faster than kyle"?? i ran with both of them throughout multiple summers training for the upcoming seasons, and they are both very similar in speed.  How do you explain sean's negative 30 yards rushing last season as opposed to kyles 53 yards rushing?  having played with them both, i would not say one is more mobile than the other.  They are both very mobile QBs.     

so here are the facts that back up my statements, Usee.  I know you are going to disagree with some of what i have said, but the numbers don't lie.  Sean is a quality QB with big playmaking potential, and so is Rex Grossman.  they both have great up side, but the down side is that they turn the ball over.  How long do you give a QB with potential the chance to prove his potential when you have a proven QB sitting on the bench??  The bears learned their lesson.   

[cardinaldad]

My view is that you're worrying about the weather too much. They're not playing in a mudpit. They're playing on Field Turf. And if the field was playable back in their first game, the field will be fine tomorrow.

And, unless it's some kind of mysterious rain, it will be raining on Augie as well. Let's suppose it is cold and it is rainy. And let's assume that takes the passing game out of the equation. Great. NCC has done a great job against the run all year. And if they don't have to play the pass, I'm feeling awfully good.

NCC leads the CCIW in turnover margin. So, in bad conditions, they should have a huge advantage. I would worry more about perfect conditions when Podulka has the whole field to use.

If there is a trademark to a John Thorne, it's that they play hard to the end of the season. The previous two years, the season looked lost after losses to Wheaton. Yet, the team went on to win their remaining games. That got them the CCIW championship and playoff games. Under Thorne, NCC knows how to finish the season.

Thanks midwestfb. I feel much better now. 

[Matilda]

There wont be any comparisons from cardinal fans about that year

It is a bad omen to talk like that

[FormerCard]

For the record NCC.2008 I don't know that they liked to be called Guru's. Thats just something I like to call them. I call them that out of respect for there knowledge of D3 football.( all sports for that matter).

I rarely used the term "guru" (not that I really do now)  until I saw it on Pats nametag.

Does Mcmillan post on here?

[Pat Coleman]

Don't see him in the CCIW board much but he posts fairly frequently on the ATN board that he mentions in his columns.

[New Tradition]

Ouch....CARDS better be sharper than the press they are getting...and beat the turn over game with
the weather too -- or it sounds like many expect Augustana to pull a 2005??!!??

I'm nnnnnervous. I know we've had Auggie's number the last couple of years and the Cards are a great team. But, this weather reminds me of '05. It won't affect us...It won't affect us...It won't affect us..............

Hey there!  How bout we not talk about that?

[Matilda]

NT, I already beat you to the punch; what were you doing? Standing around like a cigar-store indian? You better give me updates tomorrow NT

[usee]

LetsPlay2,

You already responded to my points but obvioulsy you have talked with someone to add fuel to your misguided fire and decided to beat the dead horse. I won't bore everyone with a rehash of this "dead" discussion nor will I quote your lengthy response here. Before I stop prolonging this debate to the detriment of everyone else I will make a couple of points.

-you seem to be trying to make a case that Kyle is a good and proven quarterback. He is and I agree. There is no discussion there for me.

-The problem with the offense is the offensive line. The quarterback has been sacked 9 times in 2 previous games and hit countless others. A change in qb doesn't address that issue. (please don't tell me how Sean holds the ball longer, is 2" shorter, and reminds you of Rex Grossman).

-The stats between the 2 quarterbacks are not dramatically different. You may disagree with the coaches decsion to play Norris instead of Bradley at the beginning of the season, but there is no compelling evidence right now to make a change.

-your relation to Kyle makes you biased to everyone who reads this, no matter how rational or compelling your argument. The fact that no one has agreed with you amplifies the matter since neither Mugsy nor I have any reason to want one qb over the other.

-Why does the fact that you played in a game that I attended make you remember more about the game?

-finally, remember the problem is the OLine. If that wasn't an issue, the quarteback for all of last year would have been Zach Ullrich and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[New Tradition]

NT, I already beat you to the punch; what were you doing? Standing around like a cigar-store indian? You better give me updates tomorrow NT

Ha, I just felt that it needed to be stated twice.  As far as the updates...you know I'll send em to ya, Matilda.  As long as you're not hosin' me.

[New Tradition]

To all the Cards reading this in the computer lab on the second floor of the stadium before your meetings:

Play with intensity.  Play with passion.  Play within yourselves.  Be disciplined.  Protect the football.  And for heaven's sake, dust these kids so that nobody but you will have any bearing on the outcome of the game.

Remember:  YOU are the New Tradition!  Refuse to lose!

[usee]

as for the IWU/Wheaton game today:

Wheaton is not playing with a lot of confidence. IWU comes in as good a team as Elmhurst, if not better so the Thunder must play better if they have any chance for a win. IWU's lack of running game is a benefit to Wheaton but their secondary play must improve today against a very good set of receivers and a 2 contrasting qb's. Wheaton has to get pressure on Ladd and must limit whatever running game IWU produces (particularly Rooney when he is in there).

Offensively Wheaton needs to establish the running game early and use the aggressiveness of the IWU safeties to its advantage with play action. You can bet after seeing the tape of the last 2 weeks that IWU will bring pressure on any crucial down and distance. The Thunder must have a good plan for this and figure out a way to protect their qb. Games like this will come down to making plays at the key time in the game. Ittersagen needs to have a say in that and Ceisel, Ladd an Nickolich will also make their presence felt. Both of these teams turned the ball over way too many times to win last week. If that continues they may both lose today.

[usee]

To all the Cards reading this in the computer lab on the second floor of the stadium before your meetings:

Play with intensity.  Play with passion.  Play within yourselves.  Be disciplined.  Protect the football.  And for heaven's sake, dust these kids so that nobody but you will have any bearing on the outcome of the game.

Remember:  YOU are the New Tradition!  Refuse to lose!

and don't forget to dress warmly.