FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mugsy]

I'll take Keith Bishop or Dave Weber!!

Weber was an absolute beast from Carroll.  I believe he signed with the Oakland (or LA) Raiders.

[ncc58]

I'd give the edge to Pentello over Rupp. It's a tough choice, or a good choice to have.

[Crutches McGee 87]

I saw Rocky Pentello and Brett Elliot play. Borchert v Pentello isn't even worth the conversation. Borchert was better than Elliot in my opinion. I never saw Arth but I know he was on the practice squad for the Colts for a while.

I've seen Rupp and Pentello each twice. IMO Rupp is better.

I've seen both twice as well and I'd have to give the nod to Pentello... However, I'd argue that 05 & 06 Capital team is better that the 07 & 08 Franklin team... which always makes the QB looks better.

I'd have to disagree.  I've seen them both twice just as cardinaldad and blitz said, and I think that Rupp makes better decisions than those made by Pentello.  Athletically speaking I think Rupp and Pentello are pretty equal but IMO Rupp has the stronger arm and more accurate passes.

[FormerCard]

Welcome aboard Crutches. I hope this doesn't mean you are an NCC supporter? I was hoping for a Millikin rep or maybe even another Elmhurst poster. See what you can do.

Definitely another NCC rep.  I pretty much bleed red and white.

To clarify your post, there will be no "shutting down" of Franklin's offense with Rupp at the helm. I think Franklin is going to get their yards and their points. Wheaton should be focused on getting a few stops and controlling the ball with their offense. If both teams are scoring in the 20s and 30s wheaton has a chance. If this game is a 40-50pt slugfest it doesn't bode well for the Thunder IMO.

You make a valid point.  Rupp is too good to shutdown.  I should have chosen my words more carefully.  I definitely agree that they need to hold Franklin under 30.  If Wheaton can hold them under 30, they will win.  There's no doubt in my mind.  I just hope the DB's have a great game.  The only problem is that you can't really defend a perfectly placed ball and Rupp has the tendency to do that.  I've never seen a quarterback at the D III level throw a ball like he can.  I don't mean to harp on this subject...but he is a ridiculous athlete.

I am sure Rupp is ridiculously good. I am looking forward to seeing him. I have seen a lot of great D3 qb's (and many I have not seen) so we will see how he stacks up.

Would you NCC guys say he is better than Kam Kniss? I think Kam is one of the better qb's the CCIW has seen over the years. There are many others outside the CCIW that are "best" all time.

After only seeing Rupp play once, and Kam about 40 times, it is hard for me to say who is better...  Rupp did make our D look silly, but so did Kudyba, and I know for a fact that he isnt nearly as good as either (no offense to him).  Kam tore up the CCIW in his tenure (which in my opinion is better than Franklins conference), so I might give him the nod.
Like I said, you cant base it on seeing Rupp play once or twice.

[Mr. Ypsi]

If anyone wants to go way back, how about Kenny Anderson of Augie?  Any of these other guys been an NFL MVP?

[washdupcard]

If anyone wants to go way back, how about Kenny Anderson of Augie?  Any of these other guys been an NFL MVP?

Game.  Ypsi.

[CardinalAlum]

If anyone wants to go way back, how about Kenny Anderson of Augie?  Any of these other guys been an NFL MVP?

I think you're the only one that qualifies for "way back" besides the King!    Mugsy, USee and myself only qualify for back! 

[Mr. Ypsi]

If anyone wants to go way back, how about Kenny Anderson of Augie?  Any of these other guys been an NFL MVP?

I think you're the only one that qualifies for "way back" besides the King!    Mugsy, USee and myself only qualify for back! 

I'd bet there are at least 4-5 posters (and more on CCIW Chat) who saw Anderson play (he was one year behind me).  Since the game was so different back then, he barely appears in CCIW records, and I can't find any write-ups or game summaries from his era.  He led the league in passing his sophomore and junior years (but not his senior year, when he just had to settle for POY - which apparently was not conferred in his earlier years).  Since I didn't realize at the time that I was watching "FUTURE NFL MVP KEN ANDERSON" , I really am not sure whether he was all that unusually excellent as a college player (IWU beat Augie both his freshman and senior years).  Anyone have a better memory, or has found better stats?

[usee]

IMO the current "best ever" D3 qb was Bill Borchert from Mt Union. Look at these numbers:

Bill Borchert  

Career: 1994-97
10,201 yds  1,009 attempts 671 completions 66.5 % 17 INT 141 TD's

And his Sr Season in 1997:
2,933 yds  272 att 190 completions 1 INT 69.9% 47 TD's

I saw him vs Wheaton in 1995 as a sophomore and he was awesome then. His 1997 stats don't include the playoffs because I know he finished that seson with 63Td's, which is unbelievable. (Yes you read that right---1 INT on 47 TD's in 10 games).

By the way, the passer efficiency rating for Borchert under current calculations would be:

Career 194.76
1997    216.72

I can't remember seeing better numbers than those.

[Mr. Ypsi]

And how many times has Borchert been NFL MVP?

Actually, I'm extremely aware of the difference between college and pro success.  Michigan has sent many qbs to the NFL in recent years, but Tom Brady is obviously the most successful.  I dare say the majority of UM fans were ticked off that Brady was the starter over Drew Hensen (a national record breaker in both football and baseball at nearby Brighton HS); Hensen has since flamed out in both baseball (never making the majors beyond a cup of coffee after the Yankees lured him away from his senior year at UM) and football (now a backup for the Lions).  While Anderson is almost certainly the most successful pro from schools now in d3 (his time was before d3 existed), I just don't know how he would rate as a collegian.

I know that Borchert is regarded as 'God' on OAC, but hasn't Greg Micheli already broken (or is set to break) just about every record Borchert set?

[usee]

And how many times has Borchert been NFL MVP?

And the relevance of that?? I believe we are talking about college careers Chuck.

I know that Borchert is regarded as 'God' on OAC, but hasn't Greg Micheli already broken (or is set to break) just about every record Borchert set?

If you take Borchert's stats and divide most of them by 2 you will get Micheli's stats. Its not close. You are misinformed

[Mr. Ypsi]

USee, with all due respect, I am not the one misinformed.

You have evidently totally overlooked Greg's senior stats.

PASSING (single season):
  Borchert (formerly #4): 1997, 2,933
  Micheli: 2007, 3,515 [#2]
  Micheli: 2008, 3,014 and counting
          [31 TDs and 2  INTs - that's sick!]

TOTAL OFFENSE (single season):
  Borchert (formerly #5): 1997, 3,049
  Micheli: 2007, 4,003 [#1]
  Micheli: 2008, 3,351 and counting

My understanding is that Micheli has the (NCAA) career qb rating all-but-locked up.

[dansand]

I'd bet there are at least 4-5 posters (and more on CCIW Chat) who saw Anderson play (he was one year behind me).  Since the game was so different back then, he barely appears in CCIW records, and I can't find any write-ups or game summaries from his era.  He led the league in passing his sophomore and junior years (but not his senior year, when he just had to settle for POY - which apparently was not conferred in his earlier years).  Since I didn't realize at the time that I was watching "FUTURE NFL MVP KEN ANDERSON" , I really am not sure whether he was all that unusually excellent as a college player (IWU beat Augie both his freshman and senior years).  Anyone have a better memory, or has found better stats?

I never saw Anderson play at Augie, but here are his, by today's standards, modest career totals:

Year    Att.  Cmp.  Pct.  Yds.  (W-L)
1967    155    77  49.7  1143   (4-5)
1968    239   136  56.9  2117   (6-3)
1969    199    98  49.2  1432   (7-2)
1970    234   113  48.3  1439   (3-6)
-----------------------------
Career  827   424  51.3  6131  (20-16)

Sorry, I don't have interception and TD totals. Obviously Paul Brown must've known a little about football to take Anderson in the third round. He was the sixth QB taken in the 1971 draft, behind Jim Plunkett, Archie Manning, Dan Pastorini, Lynn Dickey and Leo Hart (?).

This is also an opportunity to point out that that this year Tim Podulka threw for the second-highest yardage total in school history behind Anderson's sophomore total.

PASSING       GP   Effic Cmp-Att-Int   Pct  Yds  TD Lng Avg/G
-------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Podulka   10  144.84  140-204-8   68.6 1570  12  69 157.0

[HScoach]

USee, with all due respect, I am not the one misinformed.

You have evidently totally overlooked Greg's senior stats.

PASSING (single season):
  Borchert (formerly #4): 1997, 2,933
  Micheli: 2007, 3,515 [#2]
  Micheli: 2008, 3,014 and counting
          [31 TDs and 2  INTs - that's sick!]

TOTAL OFFENSE (single season):
  Borchert (formerly #5): 1997, 3,049
  Micheli: 2007, 4,003 [#1]
  Micheli: 2008, 3,351 and counting

My understanding is that Micheli has the (NCAA) career qb rating all-but-locked up.

As a guy that has seen every Mount game since the early 90's, I'll chime in on this debate.  BILL BORCHERT IS THE BEST OF THE MOUNT QB'S.  PERIOD.

You can't compare the NCAA numbers because Greg's include playoffs and Borchert's don't.

Yes, Micheli has broken Borchert's career efficiency rating, but Borchert was the entire Mount offense when he played.  There wasn't a Mount running game back then nor was the Mount O-line the behemohs that we've seen in the last 5+ years.  In the early days, Mount was winning in spite of their O-line play, not because of it.    By comparison Micheli has the best of the MUC RB's in the same backfield to take pressure off of him and one of the best O-lines in Mount history last season to sit behind.

Also when looking at Borchert's career numbers, you have to factor in that Borchert started from day 1 as a freshman on a team that returned only a couple starters from the first championship team (1993).   Whereas Micheli didn't start until his junior year.

Greg's a great D3 QB, but he isn't even close to being a Bill Borchert or Jim Ballard.  Greg's best attribute is his smarts, but he doesn't have the arm of either of the other guys.  If I had to rank the Mount QB's during the run of titles, it'd go like this:
1.  Bill Borchert
2.  Jim Ballard
3.  Greg Micheli
4.  Gary Smeck
5.  Rob Adamson
6.  Mike Jorris
7.  Zach Bruney

[usee]

HSC,

Thanks for weighing in. I tried to tell Chuck but he doesn't listen. 

Where would you put Rocky Pentello and Tom Arth on your list? I am guessing they would be down the list a few spots.

Sadly, as a CCIW guy, I have seen all those quarterbacks play, although I only watched Ballard in the Stagg on TV.