FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[usee]

Quote from KC Chiefs Head Coach Todd Haley:

Q: Is there a personnel area that maybe you have thought has made the most progress?
HALEY: "I don't think I could single out one. I think there's been progress in a lot of different areas. I'd say if you pinned me down on it I might say linebackers, just because it's been such a transition for them. There have been some guys who have made very good strides in a different position. We've got a couple of young guys that we really didn't know what we'd get out of them – like Andy Studebaker, a guy I haven't talked about much, a small college guy who probably had one of the best off-seasons of anybody as far as just work. You gotta pull the reins on him because he doesn't stop: lifting, running, whatever it is. We just didn't know a lot about him as a football player. I think he's got a chance and, on top of that, he's got a really good chance to be a good special teams player - also, the ability to become a long snapper."[/i]

[Mugsy]

Wheaton's official 2009 roster has been posted on the Wheaton site:

http://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/2009/8/20/FB_2009roster.aspx?path=football

There is also a link to a local newspaper about the 2009 team, particular focus on players from local high schools on the squad.

[WahooThunder]

Pete Ittersagen had two tackles last night, as well as punt returns of 12 and 14 yards, in preseason game number two. It's great to see the Jaguars utilizing him in the return game, and he rewarded them with the best performance of any of their punt returners so far this preseason. Hopefully this will give them yet another reason to keep him around.

[dlippiel]

Pete Ittersagen had two tackles last night, as well as punt returns of 12 and 14 yards, in preseason game number two. It's great to see the Jaguars utilizing him in the return game, and he rewarded them with the best performance of any of their punt returners so far this preseason. Hopefully this will give them yet another reason to keep him around.

Reading the last two pages fellas some great discussion regarding the two Wheaton alums playing for NFL spots. Best of luck to both players who seem to be having solid camps and making some impact in the preseason. Love seeing D3 players working hard to make it work in the pros!

[FormerCard]

Pete Ittersagen had two tackles last night, as well as punt returns of 12 and 14 yards, in preseason game number two. It's great to see the Jaguars utilizing him in the return game, and he rewarded them with the best performance of any of their punt returners so far this preseason. Hopefully this will give them yet another reason to keep him around.

Reading the last two pages fellas some great discussion regarding the two Wheaton alums playing for NFL spots. Best of luck to both players who seem to be having solid camps and making some impact in the preseason. Love seeing D3 players working hard to make it work in the pros!

Its too bad that 2007 Wheaton team had so many injuries...2 future NFL players, a ton of talent..they were loaded...could have brought down the Mount that year and challenged UWW.   

It reminds me of this years NC team to a degree.

[Redmen96]

Seems like forever.  Back to the board.

[WahooThunder]

Its too bad that 2007 Wheaton team had so many injuries...2 future NFL players, a ton of talent..they were loaded...could have brought down the Mount that year and challenged UWW.   

It reminds me of this years NC team to a degree.

No doubt the Wheaton team that took the field against Wash U. in the second game of that season was the best I've seen.

Even as a Wheaton fan, I sincerely hope North Central (and everyone else in the league for that matter) stays healthy this year so we can see what they are truly capable of.

[matblake]

Its too bad that 2007 Wheaton team had so many injuries...2 future NFL players, a ton of talent..they were loaded...could have brought down the Mount that year and challenged UWW.   

It reminds me of this years NC team to a degree.

No doubt the Wheaton team that took the field against Wash U. in the second game of that season was the best I've seen.

Even as a Wheaton fan, I sincerely hope North Central (and everyone else in the league for that matter) stays healthy this year so we can see what they are truly capable of.

I completely agree.  The Naperville school has a chance to be really special.  Should be an interesting season.

[raiderguy]

Its too bad that 2007 Wheaton team had so many injuries...2 future NFL players, a ton of talent..they were loaded...could have brought down the Mount that year and challenged UWW.   

It reminds me of this years NC team to a degree.

Not sure where this speculation comes from since Wheaton put up 10 points on Carthage to start the game only to give up 35 unanswered points. Norris and Pokorny played as well as Ittersagan and the offense outgained Carthage 425-375. Norris had 54 passes and two receivers had over 125 yds in receptions. Norris throws for 374 yards and two TD's. Doesn't sound like injury problems.

Then the following week they still had control of their playoff fate and fall to Illinois Weslyan by 4 points and loose any chance of making the playoffs.

IMHO it does not sound like a team that, "could have brought down the Mount," let alone challenge UWW.

As everyone knows Mount could not bring UWW down that year either.

Hope we get the chance to see Wheaton or NCC in Alliance this year too. I think it is 6-0 Raiders so far.

[Mugsy]

Its too bad that 2007 Wheaton team had so many injuries...2 future NFL players, a ton of talent..they were loaded...could have brought down the Mount that year and challenged UWW.  

It reminds me of this years NC team to a degree.

Not sure where this speculation comes from since Wheaton put up 10 points on Carthage to start the game only to give up 35 unanswered points. Norris and Pokorny played as well as Ittersagan and the offense outgained Carthage 425-375. Norris had 54 passes and two receivers had over 125 yds in receptions. Norris throws for 374 yards and two TD's. Doesn't sound like injury problems.

Then the following week they still had control of their playoff fate and fall to Illinois Weslyan by 4 points and loose any chance of making the playoffs.

IMHO it does not sound like a team that, "could have brought down the Mount," let alone challenge UWW.

As everyone knows Mount could not bring UWW down that year either.

Hope we get the chance to see Wheaton or NCC in Alliance this year too. I think it is 6-0 Raiders so far.

Speculation is... speculation.  Who knows?  

It is derived from the fact Wheaton lost close to 10 starters from the 2006 CCIW Champion team early within the 2007 season, including both the offensive and defensive captains.  For almost the entire season, the coin toss prior to the game included 2 Wheaton captains who were not dressed to play.  OLB McKinley, who was the defensive captain, blew out his knee in training camp.  Andrew Studebaker, who is now fighting for a roster spot the Kansas City Chiefs, only played in a handful of games.  The returning All-CCIW QB (Zach Ullrich) had bleeding in the brain in the 2nd game and was lost for the season (and his career).  

It is a credit to the character of the 2007 team that Wheaton team started out 8-0 despite all the injuries, only to lose the last 2 games of the season and miss the playoffs all together - including the loss to Carthage that you point out.  By the Carthage game, the starting team was a shadow of what the expectation going into 2007.  In the loss to IWU, I counted only 9 starters who were listed as starters at the beginning of the 2007 season.  That Wheaton team was absolutely decimated by injuries.  It isn't just the Wheaton posters who recognize this fact.  Norris was a sophomore and was replacing the All-CCIW Ullrich, but was still gaining experience.  While he had a big game against Carthage, as you point out it was the defense that lost that game.  If my memory serves me correctly, Norris was injured and out for the IWU game, so we were down to our 3rd string QB for the IWU.  To his credit Bradley played valiantly against IWU, but absolutely running for his life that game.  Wheaton was missing 3 starting OL (including a 2 time All-American), and the IWU pressure was the difference in the game.

The injuries issue hit the defense in a much more significant fashion. Wheaton lost Studebaker (who wasn't even the captain), 2 other starters on the D-Line, 2 of 4 starting LB's (including the captain) and 2 of the secondary for at least half the season.  

Part of what separates Mount Union and UWW from other "top" teams in D3 is depth.  Mount Union and UWW are far deeper than almost all other D3 teams.  The 2007 Wheaton team was returning enough talent (arguably) to easily be the strongest team ever at Wheaton.  Who knows what might have happened if they stayed healthy?  Some advocate that they might have been able to take a better shot at MUC.  While I agree Wheaton should have fared better against MUC in 2007, since where Wheaton has gotten killed by MUC in the past has been the inability to even slow down the vaunted MUC offenses.  This does not mean that I believe Wheaton would have won, but on paper the 2007 Wheaton team should have had it's best chance.

Wheaton has scored 20+ points on 2 occasions against MUC, but never has Wheaton been able to sufficiently stop Mount Union's offense.  The 2007 team had very talented starters with playoff experience on the defensive unit (2 of which are fighting to make NFL rosters), but Wheaton lost no less than 6-7 starters for a majority of the 2007 season.  Unless you are a MUC or UWW, that is difficult to overcome.  

At this point... posters those who bring up this topic can only go on speculation, conjecture, "what-ifs", whatever you want to call it.  I've given up on speculating how the 2007 might have done had it stayed healthy.  It doesn't matter because while Wheaton did have a rash of injuries, they didn't even win the conference or make the playoffs.  That can't be changed.  One can speculate if they want, but it doesn't change anything and can't be validated one way or the other.  All that matters (from my perspective) is what the 2009 team can offer in the regular season first, and then see what progress has been made towards the clear discrepancy that has led to an 0-6 record against MUC, of which only 2 (maybe 3) games have been even remotely competitive.  Personally I think that the 2009 Wheaton team has it's hands full to replace 9 starters from last years defense that didn't even come close to stopping MUC.  Winning conference would be a huge accomplishment - particularly with the team that North Central is returning.

So to summarize my long, long blathering post... the speculation is based on the Wheaton team at the start of the 2007 season, not the team that was playing the last 2 games of the season.  The two are unbelievably different...

[TheTruth]

First post on this site...

NCC and Wheaton will be real special this season, but keep an eye out for Augie.  Attended their Blue/Gold scrimmage on Sunday and even with several players out with injuries, Augie has the making of a nice team and one that could, with a few breaks, make it back to the D3 playoffs.  Two frosh stood out in the game in my eyes...a 6' 3" WR and a huge 220 lb RB and I think both are from the Chicago area.  Also, several QB's looked crisp in running and passing.

I do not think Mt. Union or UWW will be knocked off their pedestal any time soon, but IMHO, the CCIW is beginning to close the gap with NCC, Wheaton and possibly, Augustana.

[HScoach]

Mugsy,  good post overall.  I would have loved to see Wheaton at full strength take on the '07 Raiders.  As a MUC guy, I'm comfortable in guessing that the Thunder would't have gotten over the hump, but it would have been a real tough, evenly fought game.  Definitely one worth the price of admission.

I would like to expand on two specific points that I agree with.

1.  If you're going to beat Mount, you have to do it with your defense.  Not by out scoring them.  Ask Augie what it's like getting in a shootout with the Raiders

What makes Whitewater so tough is their defense is bigger & faster than any other team that Mount ever faces until the Stagg.  It was the same way with Rowan in the 1990's and LaCrosse before that.  Those teams were huge and very athletic at the point of attack.   What kept Rowan from being a legit threat like Whitewater is a lack of coaching.  KC Keeler was an idiot from a game adjustment and play calling standpoint.

2.  Mount has an insane amount of depth.  That's one of the major behind the scenes reasons they been so consistent the last decade+.  They played last year with their best O-lineman being a converted DT.  And it turned out their best LB last season was a sophomore that was sitting behind a senior and didn't play until a mid-season injury forced him into the lineup.  He finished as the team's leading tackler even though he only started about 2/3 of the games.

They have talent stacked beyond your wildest dreams.  In some years, the 2nd or 3rd best team in the OAC is Mount's 2nd string.  The freshman/JV team would most likely finish at or above .500 in conference.  The freshmen team is definitely ahead of the bottom dwellers like Marietta, Muskingum and Wilmington.

Back in '05, Kmic was a little known freshman that didn't see the field until their All-OAC junior TB got injuried right before the playoffs.  Shoot, he wasn't even the starting TB on the freshman team for most of the season.  The starting freshman TB ended up being the FB the next couple years because Kmic was deadly. 

There aren't many D3 teams with that kind of depth waiting their turn.

[SaintsFAN]

Mugsy,  good post overall.  I would have loved to see Wheaton at full strength take on the '07 Raiders.  As a MUC guy, I'm comfortable in guessing that the Thunder would't have gotten over the hump, but it would have been a real tough, evenly fought game.  Definitely one worth the price of admission.

How do you know what the price of admission is, HS???

[FormerCard]

I guess I was just expressing how talented the 2007 team from Wheaton was before it got hit with the injury bug.  Maybe they wouldnt have beat Mount Union, but I think talent wise, they would have had the best chance of recent CCIW teams. 
Thats pretty much what I was saying.

[Mugsy]

I guess I was just expressing how talented the 2007 team from Wheaton was before it got hit with the injury bug.  Maybe they wouldnt have beat Mount Union, but I think talent wise, they would have had the best chance of recent CCIW teams. 
Thats pretty much what I was saying.

Yup... that is how I interpretted it. 

Just responding to the question of the ability of the Wheaton team based on "raiderguys" focus on the last 2 games of the 2007 season.  Without the context of the level of injuries sustained by that point of the season, even mentioning that it was Wheaton's best chance at giving MUC a serious game, <gasp, even thinking of winning> seems absolutely crazy.