FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mugsy]

I think the TITANS will give NCC more than they can handle, especially with the defensive injuries the Cards have sustained...But I do give them credit for absorbing such losses as Wenger and Sulo and not missing a beat.  The key to the game for the Titans, in my mind, is whether or not they can run the ball on the Cards...if they can, the IWU offense should put up at least 35 points.  Taking into account unforeseen problems for the Titan O, and coupled with a stout defensive effort, my prediction is IWU 28, NCC 24.

More than they can handle?  I'm sorry but the cards put up 63 on Carthage, and defeated Wheaton 27-7.  Wheaton has a very potent offense and usually has a great running game.  The Cardinal defense kept Rocky Gingg in check all day.  I highly doubt IWU will be able to top Wheaton's efforts.  NCC's defensive line is strong, fast and can provide pressure as well as clog holes, and the linebacking corps that NCC has is phenominal (even without Wenger), and the DBs are very good as well.  And then there's the offense which speaks for itself.  I stick with my original prediction of NCC 49 IWU 23

Umm... while I will NOT reject the notion that the Cardinal defense put serious clamps on the Wheaton offense, I will dispute the "Cardinal defense kept Rocky Gingg in check all day" comment.

For starters Gingg only had 9 carries for the game.  This was in part due to the game plan design by the coaching staff, but primarily due to his overall health.  Anyone watching Wheaton this year knows Rocky Gingg is not the Rocky Gingg of 2008.  Has his skill and ability dropped or has there been something else going on (nagging injury)?

Gingg in 2008:
280 carries for 1290 yards, 15 TD's and 4.6 yards per carry.  An excellent sophomore season.

Gingg in 2009:
Bethel: 25 for 98, 3.9 ypc
CUW: 15 for 77, 5.1 ypc
Hope: 23-77, 3.3 ypc
NPU: did not play
Augie: 17-69, 4.1 ypc
Millikin: did not play
NCC: 9-1, 0.8 ypc

Season: 89-328, 3.7 ypc

Gingg's backup (Charlie Velling):
85-435, 4.8 ypc

Is Velling better than Gingg?  At this point, NO WAY!  Yet he is average almost 1 yard per carry more...  Watching how hard Gingg ran in 2008, I'm just not seeing it this year and based on what I know, it is easy to understand why.

There was much excitement coming into the 2009 campaign related to Wheaton offense.  Gingg & Norris (a combined 53 TD's in 2008), several returning receivers (including All-CCIW selections in Bertucci & Hindman) and 3 starters on the OL.

Fact of the matter is that the OL has not performed to the same level as in 2008, Wheaton lost their All-CCIW TE in Bertucci for the season and starting FB (affecting run blocking) and Gingg has been banged up all year.  Wheaton isn't rushing as effectively and this puts more pressure on Norris to pickup the slack by airing it out.  

If Gingg was really that hurt why did he play so much.? I think it was also the play calling that contributed to his poor performance.   Velling was more effective when he was in there running the same plays.  Gingg could not get outside all day as they were too fast so why did they keep trying it.  He also lost 6 yards on an outiside outlet pass.  Gingg needs to go North and South between the tackles w/o a delay.  That's his strength.  When Velling was in he ran to the hole quickly and turned it upfield as he seemed to find a seam and adapted better.  Did he get hurt as well and that's why he had limited time in the second half?  
Is it because the starting full back is out they opted not to try any screen passes?  That seems to be the logical play when the qb is getting pressure.

I can not comment on the play calling because I do not know the reasoning behind the game plan, other than Wheaton had been preparing for several weeks to come out with a new wrinkle for the NCC game (no back set).  Since I missed watching the game in person, I can not make a informed comment as to why Wheaton did not attack between the tackles as much as you thought they should.  I do know Wheaton was without both their starting FB and TE, which will impact the running game unless there is no drop off in ability of the backups.

As to why Rocky played so much... because he is an extremely tough kid.   He played 2 playoff games last year with a significantly bum knee.  He was a state champion wrestler and for those who know wrestlers, those guys are just crazy tough.  You state he that he played much of the game?  He may have been on the field, but he only had 9 carries that by quickly glance at the drive charts were spread somewhat evenly across the first 3 quarters (4th quarter became catch up mode).  That is playing a lot?  Last year Rocky averaged close to 25 carries a game (in games he played).

A couple of your comments validate my points... Velling was more effective running the same plays and Rocky wasn't getting to the edge - both due to Rocky not playing at 100%.  I agree that Rocky is a between the tackles runner.  But the OL has not been giving him the holes they did last year and when they do he just doesn't have the explosion he had shown as a freshman and sophomore.

[Mugsy]

I played for Oswego High School so I will be at that game tomorrow as well. That makes my weekend easy to plan: High school football Friday, College football Saturday and NFL Sunday/Monday. Christmas has come early!

Amen, SOT.  By the way... how are things this year?  Your team has rebounded nicely from the ONU game... and the result against Wheaton was impressive..

fyi... SOT is a Carthage alum, not a NCC alum.     Carthage needs to rebound from the NCC and Augie games, and hopefully the result against Wheaton will NOT be impressive.

[NCF]

No offense but is that your excuse for Wheaton's loss. I didn't get to see the first half (my daughter was in a cheer competition), but NCC dominated the second half. NCC has lost several key players, but they have the depth to keep reloading. Can't use injury as an excuse, it is part of the game. NCC has a chip on their shoulder after that ONU game and let's hope it stays there. They seem to get more confident every week.

[Mugsy]

No offense but is that your excuse for Wheaton's loss. I didn't get to see the first half (my daughter was in a cheer competition), but NCC dominated the second half. NCC has lost several key players, but they have the depth to keep reloading. Can't use injury as an excuse, it is part of the game. NCC has a chip on their shoulder after that ONU game and let's hope it stays there. They seem to get more confident every week.

I assume you are referring to my posts as there is no context here?

ABSOLUTELY NOT... I don't make excuses for Wheaton's loss to NCC.  Go back and look at my posts on the game... I believe I stated after the game, that NCC was clearly the better team.  

For those who know me and my history posting here, I'd like to believe I can see things with objectivity.  Yes, I'm a Wheaton fan through and through... but I will not come on here and post a list of excuses why Wheaton did not win.  My recent posts have been ONLY to contridict the comment that NCC "kept Gingg in check all day".

Even I'm tired of going into this again... 1) he wasn't the focus of the game plan, 2) while on the field for a good portion of the game, he only had 9 carries (his backup had more) and 3) many of the teams have "held Gingg in check" this year, but I believe it can be somewhat attributed to health - he has missed 2 games and was limited in 2 others.

Even with a healthy Gingg, I don't think Wheaton would have won.

[Mugsy]

newcardfan,

Not sure where I'm making excuses below?  How much more forceful do I need to be in saying NCC is a better team this year?  My gosh, you won.  Do you need to rub it in anymore?

Remember... NCC is my absolute archrival for which every cell in my body protests when I start driving south from Wheaton.  I've already made several public proclamations now indicating NCC's superiority this year.  THIS IS IT!  I'M DONE!

Honestly... it is getting a little too "Cardinal Red" in here.  The championship is in hand.  Let's give it to NCC now.  Gimme a break!

Well I was essentially right on how many points I thought NCC would score, I even gave them an extra point.  With the loss of Wenger and Sulo, I thought Wheaton had a chance if they could hold NCC to 28 points.  What I did not expect was how well NCC played on defense.  The Wheaton D played a very good first half, but gave up nearly 300 yards in the 2nd half.  Ouch!  

Coming into the season I thought NCC was clearly the best team in the CCIW and definitely the team to beat.  I thought Wheaton had some very solid players returning, particularly on offense.  With the nature of the injuries to NCC and the apparent maturation of the Wheaton defense, I thought it might be possible for Wheaton to give NCC a surprise.  My pick was mostly from my heart... my head was telling me NCC was probably a better team.  Turned out to be true...

Hats off to NCC.  Scary to think what they would have done if Wenger and Sulo were healthy.   Norris started off 5-6 for 63 yards, but then went 7-21 for 48 yards the rest of the way.  6 sacks?  Wow...

I also said in my "keys to the game" post that 2nd half adjustments in this game over the past 5 years have proven huge.  Today... 7-7 game with a Norris INT on the NCC 4 yard line to keep Wheaton from a half time lead. 2nd half... Wheaton virtually no offense, NCC nearly 300 yards.

What has worried me all year with Wheaton has been the inability to establish a potent running attack.  Wheaton's OL has not been getting it done as well this year, and Gingg is just too nicked up. The most dangerous Wheaton teams over the past decade have been the ones with over 250 yards per game through the air, but more importantly they pound you for 230+ yards on the ground.  Wheaton has only been averaging 160 yards on the ground.  That is ok against most teams, but not NCC and other upper echelon teams.  Ironic... it is the NCC offense that exhibits that perfect balance on offense that will prove very, very difficult to beat from here on out.  

Oh yeah... 2 redzone turnovers and the inability to score on 4 downs from the 5 yard line just isn't going to get it done against the likes of NCC.

As much as it pains me to say... the better team won.  <Sigh>  I don't want to have to say that again next year.

[NCF]

You post way too fast for me.  This being my son's first year in the NCC program, I have never watched a CCIW game before and can't say any team is an archrival, yet. Everyone seemed to think NCC would fold after their starters became injured. I'm just saying injuries are part of the game and it seems like the NCC depth is very good this year. NCC has done a very good job of recruiting the area talent. If you look up and down the roster, there are several good players who are 2nd and 3rd stringers that can step in and play when needed. I guess with Wheaton being ranked number 3, I just expected them to come out and dominate. I can't say what they looked like in the first half, but in the second half, after NCC scored, they looked like a beaten team.

[Son of Tailgater]

I played for Oswego High School so I will be at that game tomorrow as well. That makes my weekend easy to plan: High school football Friday, College football Saturday and NFL Sunday/Monday. Christmas has come early!

Amen, SOT.  By the way... how are things this year?  Your team has rebounded nicely from the ONU game... and the result against Wheaton was impressive..

Carthage is and will always be my team...... although NCC did recruit me but they were just too close to home and I needed to get much further away from Tailgater 

I am going to the NCC @ IWU game as a CCIW fan and for the convenience factor only. That and I need to assure that the game ends in a tie 8)

[Mugsy]

You post way too fast for me.  This being my son's first year in the NCC program, I have never watched a CCIW game before and can't say any team is an archrival, yet. Everyone seemed to think NCC would fold after their starters became injured. I'm just saying injuries are part of the game and it seems like the NCC depth is very good this year. NCC has done a very good job of recruiting the area talent. If you look up and down the roster, there are several good players who are 2nd and 3rd stringers that can step in and play when needed. I guess with Wheaton being ranked number 3, I just expected them to come out and dominate. I can't say what they looked like in the first half, but in the second half, after NCC scored, they looked like a beaten team.

I've said this several times before... Wheaton was #3 based on the fact they went to the semi-finals last year and continued to be undefeated this year until NCC (beating a few solid teams in the process).  That does not make them the 3rd best team in the nation.  Coming into 2009, Wheaton had 9 starters on defense to replace.  That gave me serious questions on how good Wheaton would be this year.

As you point out (and what should concern other CCIW teams), is that North Central is now reaching the point from a talent and depth level, that injuries will not impact them as much as other teams.  Everyone pondered if NCC would fold because 95% of the teams out there would be significantly impacted if they lost multiple All-American level players who were seniors and leaders.  It is becoming clear they have very talent players awaiting in the wings.  There are very, very few teams in D3 football that can say that.  It also means NCC could be in a complete "reload" mode year after year and approach CCIW dynasty levels.  (I just puked in my mouth).  

[Son of Tailgater]

You post way too fast for me.  This being my son's first year in the NCC program, I have never watched a CCIW game before and can't say any team is an archrival, yet. Everyone seemed to think NCC would fold after their starters became injured. I'm just saying injuries are part of the game and it seems like the NCC depth is very good this year. NCC has done a very good job of recruiting the area talent. If you look up and down the roster, there are several good players who are 2nd and 3rd stringers that can step in and play when needed. I guess with Wheaton being ranked number 3, I just expected them to come out and dominate. I can't say what they looked like in the first half, but in the second half, after NCC scored, they looked like a beaten team.

I've said this several times before... Wheaton was #3 based on the fact they went to the semi-finals last year and continued to be undefeated this year until NCC (beating a few solid teams in the process).  That does not make them the 3rd best team in the nation.  Coming into 2009, Wheaton had 9 starters on defense to replace.  That gave me serious questions on how good Wheaton would be this year.

As you point out (and what should concern other CCIW teams), is that North Central is now reaching the point from a talent and depth level, that injuries will not impact them as much as other teams.  It is becoming clear they have very talent players awaiting in the wings.  There are very, very few teams in D3 football that can say that.  It also means NCC could be in a complete "reload" mode year after year and approach CCIW dynasty levels.  (I just puked in my mouth).  

\

Mugsy,

You beat me to it on Wheaton's #3 ranking. It was well deserved at the time with where they went last year and how they performed this year up until last week.

newcardfan,

Since 2005 NCC has had only 3 conference losses. Then look at their playoff abilities and they are 1-4 since 2005. So while they might dominate the conference they still have not proven themselves in the post season as Wheaton has. By the way Wheaton is 4-2 in the playoffs since 2005 only losing to Mount Union twice. In 2004 Carthage went 2-1 in the playoffs losing to Mount Union as well.

I guess what I am saying is that not all is perfect with NCC and that has reflected their ranking compared to Wheatons previous ranking. NCC was a very middle of the pack team in my early days 2002-2003 at Carthage and they have done a tremendous job becoming a dominate team in this conference. Wheaton has been a strong team for a long long time. With that said, I would still like to see them prove themselves in the playoffs before giving them a top 5 ranking or the dynasty title.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Mugsy (and others),

We 'Green Weenies' (we'd kinda prefer Titans ) have NOT ceded the title to NCC just yet!

Allow me my fantasies 'til at least late Saturday afternoon, would ya?!

[Mugsy]

With that said, I would still like to see them prove themselves in the playoffs before giving them the dynasty title.

Just to note... I mentioned dynasty in the context of "CCIW dynasty".  NCC does have 3 straight CCIW titles and are well on the way to a 4th.  That said they do need to translate that into playoff success.

[Son of Tailgater]

With that said, I would still like to see them prove themselves in the playoffs before giving them the dynasty title.

Just to note... I mentioned dynasty in the context of "CCIW dynasty".  NCC does have 3 straight CCIW titles and are well on the way to a 4th.  That said they do need to translate that into playoff success.

Also to note....I was referencing them as a Dynasty Team in D3. I do believe they have a CCIW Dynasty going. 3 losses in 5 years in this league is a huge accomplishment.

[NCF]

I hope they start doing well in the post season also. I've got to watch this team for three more years!!  

[SaintsFAN]

I didn't think that fans and parents could choose who the archrivals are??  Learn something new everyday.

Mugsy... I know Wheaton will be back next year --- with a healthy Gingg..  I saw them play at MUC last year in the Semi-finals and was very impressed with the poise at QB and how Swider coached the guys up.  Solid program.

Sorry about whiffing on who SOT was affiliated with..

[Mugsy]

I didn't think that fans and parents could choose who the archrivals are??  Learn something new everyday.

Mugsy... I know Wheaton will be back next year --- with a healthy Gingg..  I saw them play at MUC last year in the Semi-finals and was very impressed with the poise at QB and how Swider coached the guys up.  Solid program.

Sorry about whiffing on who SOT was affiliated with..

I hear ya SaintsFan...  My "selecting" NCC as the archrival goes back to the 4 years I played at Wheaton and the 5 years I coached there, not to mention the fact it is the battle for "The Bell".  

No biggie on "the whiff" <insert Dan Patrick  tag line> regarding SOT... nice to have others outside the CCIW head over here from time to time.