FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[usee]

I watched the Monon Bell game on TV (Wabash v Depauw). I also saw the Wabash/Wheaton game in the playoffs last year. I actually would compare Wabash to IWU offensively and defensively. Very similar philosophy and scheme. If you have seen IWU this year you will see a lot of similarities when you watch Wabash. Tall Qb who is not real mobile but throws it well. Athletic deceptively fast WR's Big OLine. Biggest difference in the offenses is that Eli Williams is much more talented than any of the Wabsh backs and IWU has a little more running game than Wabash but both are spread oriented shotgun attacks (This assumes Kraig Ladd as the QB--the other huge difference is Brien Rooney and the changing dynamic when he comes in at QB). Defensively they are very similar. Athletic LB's that run, active DLine and good tackling secondary.

I don't think Wabash is as bad as they looked against Wheaton in the playoffs last year and I don't think they can compete with UWW or MUC this year. That puts them somewhere in the giant chasm between those two places. I think IWU -4 to -7 is the right spread. IWU has survived a much tougher schedule and has a very physical front on both offense and defense. If you can assume the skill position players are somewhat similarly talented, this game comes down to which team wins the LOS. Last year Wheaton ran the ball all over Wabash when the Little Giants were pretty good all year against the run. If you see IWU running for big gains early that's an indicator it won't be close. If the Bash can hold up on the LOS, I think the skil guys are good enough on both sides to make this go down to the wire.

[zed07]

Pretty decent assessment of Wabash.  Biggest difference between last year's offense and this year's is the development of several additional receiving targets that were freshmen last year.  Defensively, we're more athletic and experienced at LB and the new defensive linemen have done a good job overall.  Last year's Wheaton game-the wheels kind of fell off, especially in the 3rd quarter.  Once things go downhill, it's often hard to stop them from doing so, especially against a hot team like they were at that time. 

[cave2bens]

After learning of IWU's QB injury and possible linkage to the upset loss with Millikin, one might wonder if Hudson's availability might have been worth 3-6 points versus Wittenberg, a potential win over a regionally ranked opponent, and probable seed over Case on the other side of the bracket.  Just for fun, toss in Chase Belton's performance at Wooster or Miracle's vs Witt in backup roles (both can run - and will).  Familiar story lines - 

Cumulative statistics aside (which are pretty similar across the board) as SOS and starters' bench-riding in blowouts render them meaningless on a given, game day, this shapes up as one of the better matches in the first round.  It appears that the two teams run (and pass) in parallel universes.   

This is going to be great!

- Stephen "Flounder" Furst

[Gregory Sager]

Dennis, Greg, Mark, lakeshore, and other NPU Vikings:

In light of NPU's almost 50 year lack of competitive excellence in the CCIW, I have 3 questions:

1- WHAT: What will it take for NPU to become competitive in all sports in the CCIW?  What would that PLAN look like?

Three things: Resources, coaching, and will. The first two are connected, since I think it's amply demonstrated in the coaching ranks that you get what you pay for. NPU needs to make athletic department salaries competitive so that good coaches will be attracted to the school and will stay there if they have some success, rather than treat the school as a career stepping-stone (although more often than not it's been a career graveyard for the lackluster and the indifferent as far as coaches are concerned).

But they are all connected as well. NPU has traditionally been by far the poorest school in the league in terms of endowment, but in recent years it's been (roughly) sharing the bottom with Carthage. And yet Carthage has had significant success across the board in CCIW sports. That's partly because Carthage has a very generous benefactor that has given significant major gifts to the school for athletic facilities (the Tarble family of Snap-On Tools), and partly because Carthage is blessed with a solid crop of gifted and hard-working coaches who have forged a great deal of success for the school's teams in CCIW and D3 play. I'm thinking especially of Bosko Djurickovic (men's basketball), Augie Schmidt (baseball), and Leanne Ulmer (volleyball), but Steve Domin (men's soccer) has won a league title within the past couple of years as well, and Tim Bernero (women's basketball) and Tim Rucks (football) always have their teams competitive within the league, too. Good coaches not only know how to run practices, choose competent staffs, and do the in-game X's and O's, they also know how to recruit -- which means understanding the school's academic and social profile, understanding the local geography, knowing the pluses and minuses of the school, and having a good grasp of what sort of student is a good fit for that school. And they work hard, scout hard, and do their homework in recruiting. Too many NPU coaches in various sports have not measured up in that regard. As I said, you get what you pay for.

And there's a question of will as well. One of the reasons why Carthage has done so well while NPU hasn't is because CC's President Campbell is a zealous devotee of the school's sports teams, and he sees the success of Carthage sports as integral to the school's attempt to raise its public profile. That's not to say that President Parkyn of North Park isn't a big fan of NPU sports -- he's very faithful in his attendance at Vikings sports events, as were his predecessors David Horner and Bill Hausman -- but I'm not sure that he, his entire cabinet, or the school's board of trustees see athletics as being as important to the school's mission as does President Campbell of Carthage's mission.

(There's tradeoffs involved; although NPU has traditionally viewed football as a tuition revenue source and a potential pool for male students in a female-dominated collegiate environment, Scott Pethtel isn't on the quota system. I don't know if every Carthage coach is required to reach a quota of student-athletes, but the approximately 3,847 football players that Rucks has to squeeze onto his roster every year by edict of the school's administration is faintly ridiculous, and, in my humble opinion (Tailgator, SOT, Carthage Fan, and other Red Men supporters may disagree with me on this) is ultimately detrimental to the program. How can you coach that many players?)

Resources are by far the most important ingredient, though. NPU's endowment is dwarfed by those of most of the other CCIW schools, but that, of course, is not the whole explanation. Facilities have also lagged behind those of North Park's competitor schools for decades, and while the addition of Helwig Rec Center (which is general-student-oriented, and which serves the student-athlete only secondarily) and the upgrades at Holmgren Athletic Complex have helped, they haven't closed the gap entirely. Given NPU's prime location on the city's North Side and the exorbitant costs involved in purchasing adjacent land, any attempts to expand or improve existing facilities are hamstrung. NPU is a "make do with what you have" school, and it always has been.

2- CAN: Can NPU become competitive in all sports?  For NPU to catch up, stay up and compete for CCIW championships, would NPU be capable of accomplishing that PLAN?

Yes it can, but it will take money and will, plus the administrative acumen to locate, hire, and support good coaches. Money is the biggest question. NPU just doesn't have very much of it, and it lacks the major donors -- people like the Tarbles of Carthage and the Shirks of Illinois Wesleyan -- that can fill in the gaps in the donor base with massive multi-million-dollar gifts. Mike Holmgren came close to being that kind of sugar daddy for awhile, but he's retired from coaching in the NFL now and is not likely to fall into a pile of money again anytime soon. North Park always pays the price for cranking out preachers, teachers, and nurses rather than captains of industry or people who can invent things like sugar-coated peanuts or hand tools that snap together.

3- WILL: Does NPU have the will and desire to prioritize a highly competitive athletic program?  How does that vision fit with the current NPU culture, community and philosophy?

Right now? No. I don't see any evidence that NPU has that will. The school basically has a capital-improvements laundry list, and the construction of Helwig and facelift for Holmgren pretty much served as the athletic department's dip at the trough for this decade. Now the school has moved on to other priorities: A new fine arts center, a new student union, a badly-needed new science classroom building, new housing acquisitions, etc. It could take years before it's the athletic department's turn again. A bigger and more generous stand-alone, athletics-only donor base is needed, and although the school is working on that it's woefully behind its seven competitors in that regard. Plus, as I said, I don't see the will existing among the people who run the school at making athletics success a top priority. I don't begrudge them that, because it's hard work to satisfy every constituency on campus with so small a pie, and not every North Park alumnus or alumna values sports as much as I do. I think that the people that run NPU do a superb job of making do with what they have. It's a shame, though, that it inevitably means year after year of the Vikings getting their brains beat in by CCIW foes in most sports.

There's no community or philosophical roadblock to NPU being successful in sports. The school's been a member of the CCIW for the better part of five decades, and it's very much in tune with conference and D3 philosophy. And the campus community and local alumni would certainly rally around the teams if they were ever given a reason to do so (men's soccer draws very healthy crowds for home matches). But nobody wants to come and watch a football team that loses games 83-7 or can't gain positive total yardage on offense over sixty minutes of play; nor are they much likely to turn out for a basketball team that goes 0-for-conference, a volleyball team that struggles just to win a CCIW match every year, a softball team that never seems to get any traction in league play, etc.

I would, however, be interested in hearing the response to Frooper2's questions - can (and will) NPU ever regain competitiveness in anything other than soccer?  (And soccer is my #2 sport, so certainly not discounting that lone area of competitiveness! )

Men's soccer is not NPU's lone area of competitiveness, Chuck. The baseball program under Luke Johnson, although unable to crack the CCIW's annual top three of Augustana, Carthage, and Illinois Wesleyan (in whichever order), has been solidly middle-of-the-pack since shortly after his arrival and has earned the respect of the other seven teams in the league. The women's rowing program, although not participating in a CCIW-sponsored sport, has been extremely successful and is considered one of the midwest's better programs in that sport.

[Mugsy]

So I was thinking the other day about the "CCIW team of the decade".  Here is some of the pertinent data points I dug up:

Team	Total Record	Playoff Record	CCIW Championships
Augustana	73-30	2-2	1 Outright, 2 Co-Champs
Carthage	60-43	2-1 (04' Quarterfinals)	1 Co-Champs
Illinois Wesleyan	58-41	TBD	4 Co-Champs
Millikin	55-46	0-1	1 Co-Champs
North Central	74-33	3-4	1 Outright, 3 Co-Champs
Wheaton	89-24	8-5 (03' Quarterfinals, 08' Semifinals)	2 Outright, 3 Co-Champs

Couple notes:

1. Only 4 outright CCIW Champions in the decade, multiple 3 way ties.

2. While a wide representation of teams in the playoffs for the decade (6 of 8 teams), not too much progress in terms of making it deep into the playoffs.
 
3. Overall playoff record for the CCIW in the decade was 15-13 (8 of 13 losses to Mount Union, often within North Region).  How many more playoff victories would CCIW gained if MUC was moved to others regions, as they have of late?

4. While Wheaton led with 5 CCIW Championships, North Central has 4 in a row.  Illinois Wesleyan "quietly" collected 4.

5. Carthage had the stellar, breakout year in 04' and has been competitive since, but not to the same level.

6. Millikin was strong in 00' & 01', but struggled since until this year.

7. In the category of "a big if", but Wheaton could have been an 8 time CCIW champ in the decade if not for 2 heart breaking games against IWU and one against NCC.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Greg, I didn't know about the rowing, since it's not a conference sport, but sorry to have forgotten about the baseball team.  Now that Wheaton has decided to get serious about baseball (after being a laughing-stock for decades), Coach Johnson may have to step things up to make the conference tourney.  I hope he can, or baseball may become the 'Big 4, Little 4' that reigned for so long in football.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Mugsy, on note #3, getting MUC out won't help much if we can't keep UWW from replacing them!  (I still contend that it could have happened this year IF Wheaton had remained undefeated, OR if IWU has not inexplicably lost to Millikin - either one would have had credentials stronger than either Wesley or SJU to be a #1.)

I don't think anyone can reasonably argue against Wheaton as the Team of the Decade (though NCC could probably legitimately claim Team of the Second-half of the Decade!)

[Titan Q]

I would, however, be interested in hearing the response to Frooper2's questions - can (and will) NPU ever regain competitiveness in anything other than soccer?  (And soccer is my #2 sport, so certainly not discounting that lone area of competitiveness! )

I think North Park is positioned pretty nicely this season in one of the "major" sports - men's basketball.  Despite an opening game loss on the road to MSOE, I think the Vikings are going to have a good season...certainly "competitive."

[Titan Q]

So I was thinking the other day about the "CCIW team of the decade".  Here is some of the pertinent data points I dug up:

Team	Total Record	Playoff Record	CCIW Championships
Augustana	73-30	2-2	1 Outright, 2 Co-Champs
Carthage	60-43	2-1 (04' Quarterfinals)	1 Co-Champs
Illinois Wesleyan	58-41	TBD	4 Co-Champs
Millikin	55-46	0-1	1 Co-Champs
North Central	74-33	3-4	1 Outright, 3 Co-Champs
Wheaton	89-24	8-5 (03' Quarterfinals, 08' Semifinals)	2 Outright, 3 Co-Champs

Couple notes:

1. Only 4 outright CCIW Champions in the decade, multiple 3 way ties.

2. While a wide representation of teams in the playoffs for the decade (6 of 8 teams), not too much progress in terms of making it deep into the playoffs.
 
3. Overall playoff record for the CCIW in the decade was 15-13 (8 of 13 losses to Mount Union, often within North Region).  How many more playoff victories would CCIW gained if MUC was moved to others regions, as they have of late?

4. While Wheaton led with 5 CCIW Championships, North Central has 4 in a row.  Illinois Wesleyan "quietly" collected 4.

5. Carthage had the stellar, breakout year in 04' and has been competitive since, but not to the same level.

6. Millikin was strong in 00' & 01', but struggled since until this year.

Mugsy, impressive use of tables, different font size, bolding, and different font color.  You win the Formatting Award for Wednesday, November 18.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I would, however, be interested in hearing the response to Frooper2's questions - can (and will) NPU ever regain competitiveness in anything other than soccer?  (And soccer is my #2 sport, so certainly not discounting that lone area of competitiveness! )

I think North Park is positioned pretty nicely this season in one of the "major" sports - men's basketball.  Despite an opening game loss on the road to MSOE, I think the Vikings are going to have a good season...certainly "competitive."

I agree, but that is speculation on what has not yet happened.  Since 2002-03 (as far back as d3hoops.com goes, and I was too lazy to go elsewhere ), the Vikings are 18-80 in CCIW games.  THAT is not competitive.  Hopefully this year they WILL be competitive.

[Titan Q]

An article on Nick Nikolich and the Titans heading into the Wabash game...

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-wesleyan/article_b27e5632-d49b-11de-a6b9-001cc4c002e0.html

[Tailgater]

 the approximately 3,847 football players that Rucks has to squeeze onto his roster every year by edict of the school's administration is faintly ridiculous, and, in my humble opinion (Tailgator, SOT, Carthage Fan, and other Red Men supporters may disagree with me on this) is ultimately detrimental to the program. How can you coach that many players?)

Well thought out post Professor  . (the whole post not just this quote)

I'm not sure I understand why having a ton of players in the Carthage football program would be detrimental? Carthage has an average of 18 to 20 football coaches working in the program each year ranging from full time assistant coaches, part time assistant coaches, graduate assistant coaches and student assistant coaches not to mention the head coach. You can break down into very manageable groups during practices to work on specific drills with that many coaches. I find that the JV football schedule which Carthage has offers a great competitive release each week for the many players who don't play at all or have limited playing time on Saturdays. Carthage plays 6 - 8 JV games each season. I think the JV program is also a plus for recruiting and development of young players. One other position you did not mention, which is crucial to the development of a successful Collegiate sports program, is the Athletic Director. Bob Bonn has done an outstanding job in assisting in the development of a wide variety of successful sport teams at Carthage. The AD is very instrumental in getting from the Administration what sports teams need to be successful.

The Tarble family is certainly a significant and generous supporter and a blessing to Carthage College. President Campbell has done an outstanding job of developing relationships with the business community at large throughout the Kenosha area. The money runs deeper than just one significant benefactor. This past year Carthage completed renovation of the TARC basketball arena. It is a fabulous facility and in my opinion the finest in the CCIW. Next time anyone is on campus it is a must see. This will be a great recruiting tool not only for athletes, but for students at large. I think visiting teams will appreciate the new visiting locker room which is light years away from what was once there. The new weight room facility, used only by the football and baseball teams, is said to be the best equipped in DIII. Approx. 1/2 million was spent on the weight room alone. This spring Carthage will break ground on a multi-million dollar football stadium renovation. It is questionable if it will be ready for the 2010 season. Football and soccer games may have to be played at an alternate location this coming year.

[Mugsy]

Mugsy, impressive use of tables, different font size, bolding, and different font color.  You win the Formatting Award for Wednesday, November 18.

Q, quite the honor.  Thank you.  

[FormerCard]

So I was thinking the other day about the "CCIW team of the decade".  Here is some of the pertinent data points I dug up:

Team	Total Record	Playoff Record	CCIW Championships
Augustana	73-30	2-2	1 Outright, 2 Co-Champs
Carthage	60-43	2-1 (04' Quarterfinals)	1 Co-Champs
Illinois Wesleyan	58-41	TBD	4 Co-Champs
Millikin	55-46	0-1	1 Co-Champs
North Central	74-33	3-4	1 Outright, 3 Co-Champs
Wheaton	89-24	8-5 (03' Quarterfinals, 08' Semifinals)	2 Outright, 3 Co-Champs

Couple notes:

1. Only 4 outright CCIW Champions in the decade, multiple 3 way ties.

2. While a wide representation of teams in the playoffs for the decade (6 of 8 teams), not too much progress in terms of making it deep into the playoffs.
 
3. Overall playoff record for the CCIW in the decade was 15-13 (8 of 13 losses to Mount Union, often within North Region).  How many more playoff victories would CCIW gained if MUC was moved to others regions, as they have of late?

4. While Wheaton led with 5 CCIW Championships, North Central has 4 in a row.  Illinois Wesleyan "quietly" collected 4.

5. Carthage had the stellar, breakout year in 04' and has been competitive since, but not to the same level.

6. Millikin was strong in 00' & 01', but struggled since until this year.

7. In the category of "a big if", but Wheaton could have been an 8 time CCIW champ in the decade if not for 2 heart breaking games against IWU and one against NCC.

and another big if..

If John Thorne would have left Wheaton Warrenville South in 1998 and came to North Central, the Cardinals would have 10 Championships this decade   

[Mugsy]

So I was thinking the other day about the "CCIW team of the decade".  Here is some of the pertinent data points I dug up:

Team	Total Record	Playoff Record	CCIW Championships
Augustana	73-30	2-2	1 Outright, 2 Co-Champs
Carthage	60-43	2-1 (04' Quarterfinals)	1 Co-Champs
Illinois Wesleyan	58-41	TBD	4 Co-Champs
Millikin	55-46	0-1	1 Co-Champs
North Central	74-33	3-4	1 Outright, 3 Co-Champs
Wheaton	89-24	8-5 (03' Quarterfinals, 08' Semifinals)	2 Outright, 3 Co-Champs

Couple notes:

1. Only 4 outright CCIW Champions in the decade, multiple 3 way ties.

2. While a wide representation of teams in the playoffs for the decade (6 of 8 teams), not too much progress in terms of making it deep into the playoffs.
 
3. Overall playoff record for the CCIW in the decade was 15-13 (8 of 13 losses to Mount Union, often within North Region).  How many more playoff victories would CCIW gained if MUC was moved to others regions, as they have of late?

4. While Wheaton led with 5 CCIW Championships, North Central has 4 in a row.  Illinois Wesleyan "quietly" collected 4.

5. Carthage had the stellar, breakout year in 04' and has been competitive since, but not to the same level.

6. Millikin was strong in 00' & 01', but struggled since until this year.

7. In the category of "a big if", but Wheaton could have been an 8 time CCIW champ in the decade if not for 2 heart breaking games against IWU and one against NCC.

and another big if..

If John Thorne would have left Wheaton Warrenville South in 1998 and came to North Central, the Cardinals would have 10 Championships this decade   

Ha... very nice.