FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mugsy]

Also, I would like to toot my own horn for my CCIW Pick-Ems performance. After a DNP in week 2 I came with-in 2 points of the lead.

Thank you. Thank you. 

"If you ain't first, you're last..." 

[Gregory Sager]

Certainly mean no disrespect to NC or the CCIW in terms of the level of upset here in WIAC country today.

Boy, it's a good thing that the the WIACers mean no disrespect to NCC or the CCIW. I sure wouldn't want anyone to take this:

North Central just lost its chance to win with one pissed off UWW team.

... or this:

Triple monkey stomp in Naperville IFNorth Central even makes it that far. Enjoy the complimentary NCAA road accomodations. I guess the Warhawks get two free vacations before they get to Salem.

... or this:

BTW, the CCIW sucks.

... or this:

I don't think anyone is worried. We're just pissed that we have to go all the way to Naperville to watch NCC get triple monkey stomped by us instead of watching it in Perkins stadium. They're not in our our league both literally and figuratively and their disposition towards playing us is as big an indicator as any.

... or this:

I feel this bracket actually insures us going to Salem because we are going to beat the crap out of those teams who are seeded ahead of us......

... or this:

Lets just be honest.  Purple vs Purple is what everyone was expecting and what everyone will get this year.  MTU and UWW can play all there games away and it wont matter.  They will still be playing each other in Salem.  MTU and UWW are head over heels above each team in all of D3.

... or this:

Rd three we will play a team who thinks they are good in NCC; in reality they are slow, small, cocky (for what??), and the result will be exactly the same as the last time they tried to pretend they were on our level.

... as disrespectful.

[Gregory Sager]

And this isn't a matter of "D3 is turning into ...", either. The NCAA has been using pre-established criteria in selecting and seeding its D3 tournaments for many years now.

Except UWW and Mount Union have never had the best SOS. Yet they've always been a No. 1 seed. Therein lies the tub.

Hey, I just said that the NCAA used pre-established criteria. I didn't say that they were consistent about it.

I fully understand the paranoia and conspiracy-mongering of the WIAC crowd, given the fact that the selection committee has sabotaged its objectivity somewhat in terms of how it has used the criteria. But that's nothing new. I've followed D3 for over thirty years, and I am no longer surprised by these things. My point was merely that there are pre-established, printed, available-to-the-public criteria at work here. I just don't want to be seen as the person who is defending the committee's ability to use those criteria in a consistent and competent manner.

[robertgoulet]

Also, I would like to toot my own horn for my CCIW Pick-Ems performance. After a DNP in week 2 I came with-in 2 points of the lead.

Thank you. Thank you. 

"If you ain't first, you're last..." 

Thank you, baby Jesus.

[Mugsy]

Certainly mean no disrespect to NC or the CCIW in terms of the level of upset here in WIAC country today.

Boy, it's a good thing that the the WIACers mean no disrespect to NCC or the CCIW. I sure wouldn't want anyone to take this:

North Central just lost its chance to win with one pissed off UWW team.

... or this:

Triple monkey stomp in Naperville IFNorth Central even makes it that far. Enjoy the complimentary NCAA road accomodations. I guess the Warhawks get two free vacations before they get to Salem.

... or this:

BTW, the CCIW sucks.

... or this:

I don't think anyone is worried. We're just pissed that we have to go all the way to Naperville to watch NCC get triple monkey stomped by us instead of watching it in Perkins stadium. They're not in our our league both literally and figuratively and their disposition towards playing us is as big an indicator as any.

... or this:

I feel this bracket actually insures us going to Salem because we are going to beat the crap out of those teams who are seeded ahead of us......

... or this:

Lets just be honest.  Purple vs Purple is what everyone was expecting and what everyone will get this year.  MTU and UWW can play all there games away and it wont matter.  They will still be playing each other in Salem.  MTU and UWW are head over heels above each team in all of D3.

... or this:

Rd three we will play a team who thinks they are good in NCC; in reality they are slow, small, cocky (for what??), and the result will be exactly the same as the last time they tried to pretend they were on our level.

... as disrespectful.

Hmm... I dunno GS.  I think you might have missed one, maybe two more?

At this point any posturing really doesn't matter other than to generate a lot of noise on the boards.  I'd rather focus on the actual 1st round match ups and the strengths vs. weaknesses for each perspective team.  Hence my post last night attempting to understand what makes Coe tick and what challenges Wheaton will face.

While there is some controversy over the seeding of teams, it was based on the decisions of the committee.  Right or wrong the players, coaches and fans can not change that, no matter how many posts, statement or opinion/rebuttal, or point/counter-point.

Every year some team is left out that probably shouldn't have, or a team makes it that in the eyes of many is not worthy.  Every year some team is not quite seeded correctly.  Some years are worse than others.

My point (rambling as it may be) is that the coaches and teams are now focused on their first opponent and only on their first opponent.  What happens on the field will determine who the next champion is.  (gee, thanks Sherlock for stating the obvious)

The only possible way to change the current playoff brackets would be if someone argued against the current playoff pairings/seeding and then used the "check the tape" or "watch the film".   As you all know that trumps any argument or logic.  

[Gregory Sager]

Also, unfortunately, SoS is not calculated only by non-conference games.  Overall, NCC .523; UWW .487.

You must have gotten let down by your 'weak' conference!

[And playing winless d3 teams is not better than playing NAIA teams.  NAIA games just don't count; winless d3 teams drag down your score.  That's why NCC had the lowest(?) SoS in the CCIW.]

That is not what Mr. Sager said.  Which is is?  Does all games figure into the SOS, or just the Non-conference?   Thought I knew the answer but now you two have me confused...............    

But, inasmuch as the WIAC has a bunch of teams in it that have 4-3 and 3-4 records, that's immaterial. Every league in the nation has the wins and losses within its schedule add up to zero. It doesn't matter if you have four teams that are 4-3 and four teams that are 3-4, or a 7-0, 6-1, 5-2, 4-3, 3-4, 2-5, 1-6, 0-7 spread, it all comes out the same:  28 games played, 28 wins, 28 losses. Same as next year, same as last year, same as the year before.

It's your non-conference games, and those of your league opponents, that matter in terms of determining SOS.

Either way, it seems that the committee has decided, this season, that only using SOS means the Warhawks are SOL.   Like I said, look at how they ranked the brackets, forget about whose #1 and #2 in our bracket..........the North with the #1 and #5 team in the country, (according to national polls,)  is #4?    
  It is a set up, Gentlemen, clearly!  I'm just not sure why we were targeted and UMU was given a pass to the #1 seed in the North recently, despite NCC's win over the #1, and again moved to the weak East bracket.  But I guess, we are still considered the, "upstarts," to the Mount.  And before I hear again, that NCC deserved the #1 over UWW based on SOS, let me remind you that math told us that they also deserved it a week ago over UMU but didn't get it.      But the Hawks will take the games one at a time, play them wherever required and, hopefully, play again in Salem.  I am just sorry about 2 things, that this little farce pitted so many UWW fans against NCC fans.  The upper tier of the CCIW is top drawer,  Second and most importantly, I am pissed we miss out on the chance for 2 more times to tailgate at the Perk.  Win your games, Cards, we will try to win ours and then...............let's do this thing. 

By the way, NCC against St. Norberts?    You win by 30, and how ironic is it that NCC's only 4 wins by NC opponents came from a WIAC team.   

I think that you've misunderstood my intent, 413. SOS includes all in-region games, which includes both conference games and those non-conference games that are played against in-region D3 opponents. Conference games, when looked at across the spread of the entire league, always add up to zero -- in other words, an equal number of wins and losses. Every game has both a winner and a loser, right? (Even if there's a tie, it doesn't affect the way that wins and losses balance each other out in terms of the league as a whole.) Therefore, it's the non-conference games that make your league as a whole either rise above .500 or dip below .500 in terms of SOS.

Chuck (Mr. Ypsi) was looking at it on a team-by-team basis, though, specifically with regard to North Central. The Cards had the weakest SOS in the CCIW because: a) they didn't play particularly good non-conference teams; and b) they didn't have the benefit of playing themselves (the CCIW team with the 10-0 in-region record). So there's no inconsistency between what Chuck said and what I said.

[badgerwarhawk]

I wasn't surprised either, Greg.  In fact I've been saying it was going to happen for a couple of weeks now.  Our inability to get the to first in the region was a clue.  I haven't followed the NCAA as closely as you have but I have followed them long enough to expect the unexpected.  

What's done is done and won't be undone.  So let's play.  Game on

[Mugsy]

What's done is done and won't be undone.  So let's play.  Game on

Hmm... I'm a rambling fool.  My exact point but in a few thousand less words.

[usee]

I agree and think all the hoopla over seeds is just noise. The best teams will show it on the field and since UWW has never lost a road game they shouldn't be concerned. I think most Mt fans would be happy w a road game as it breaks up the monotony.

I also think the "committee member in the grassy knoll" theory is comical. If the NCAA really didnt want Mt v UWW part VI they would have made their respective brackets meet in the semi's.

[Gregory Sager]

Hmm... I dunno GS.  I think you might have missed one, maybe two more?

Dunno if it was P.T. Barnum or George M. Cohan or Walt Disney who first said it, but, whichever one it was, he was right: Always leave them wanting more.

[robertgoulet]

Certainly mean no disrespect to NC or the CCIW in terms of the level of upset here in WIAC country today.

Boy, it's a good thing that the the WIACers mean no disrespect to NCC or the CCIW. I sure wouldn't want anyone to take this:

North Central just lost its chance to win with one pissed off UWW team.

... or this:

Triple monkey stomp in Naperville IFNorth Central even makes it that far. Enjoy the complimentary NCAA road accomodations. I guess the Warhawks get two free vacations before they get to Salem.

... or this:

BTW, the CCIW sucks.

... or this:

I don't think anyone is worried. We're just pissed that we have to go all the way to Naperville to watch NCC get triple monkey stomped by us instead of watching it in Perkins stadium. They're not in our our league both literally and figuratively and their disposition towards playing us is as big an indicator as any.

... or this:

I feel this bracket actually insures us going to Salem because we are going to beat the crap out of those teams who are seeded ahead of us......

... or this:

Lets just be honest.  Purple vs Purple is what everyone was expecting and what everyone will get this year.  MTU and UWW can play all there games away and it wont matter.  They will still be playing each other in Salem.  MTU and UWW are head over heels above each team in all of D3.

... or this:

Rd three we will play a team who thinks they are good in NCC; in reality they are slow, small, cocky (for what??), and the result will be exactly the same as the last time they tried to pretend they were on our level.

... as disrespectful.

Hmm... I dunno GS.  I think you might have missed one, maybe two more?

At this point any posturing really doesn't matter other than to generate a lot of noise on the boards.  I'd rather focus on the actual 1st round match ups and the strengths vs. weaknesses for each perspective team.  Hence my post last night attempting to understand what makes Coe tick and what challenges Wheaton will face.

While there is some controversy over the seeding of teams, it was based on the decisions of the committee.  Right or wrong the players, coaches and fans can not change that, no matter how many posts, statement or opinion/rebuttal, or point/counter-point.

Every year some team is left out that probably shouldn't have, or a team makes it that in the eyes of many is not worthy.  Every year some team is not quite seeded correctly.  Some years are worse than others.

My point (rambling as it may be) is that the coaches and teams are now focused on their first opponent and only on their first opponent.  What happens on the field will determine who the next champion is.  (gee, thanks Sherlock for stating the obvious)

The only possible way to change the current playoff brackets would be if someone argued against the current playoff pairings/seeding and then used the "check the tape" or "watch the film".   As you all know that trumps any argument or logic.  

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Gregory Sager]

I also think the "committee member in the grassy knoll" theory is comical. If the NCAA really didnt want Mt v UWW part VI they would have made their respective brackets meet in the semi's.

If there truly is such a thing as an oasis of sanity, USee, you are its sheikh.

[02 Warhawk]

I can't help to wonder if I would have rather had the #2 seed in this region instead of the #1.

I consider 2nd round matchup between ONU/Witt winner much more difficult than what UWW will face (DePauw/Trine).


Maybe we can offer to swap seeds with UWW as a show of good faith 

Really?? you're willing to surrender home field in the North just to avoid playing ONU or Witt? you have yourself a deal  

[Warhawk 96]

Certainly mean no disrespect to NC or the CCIW in terms of the level of upset here in WIAC country today.

Boy, it's a good thing that the the WIACers mean no disrespect to NCC or the CCIW. I sure wouldn't want anyone to take this:

North Central just lost its chance to win with one pissed off UWW team.

... or this:

Triple monkey stomp in Naperville IFNorth Central even makes it that far. Enjoy the complimentary NCAA road accomodations. I guess the Warhawks get two free vacations before they get to Salem.

... or this:

BTW, the CCIW sucks.

... or this:

I don't think anyone is worried. We're just pissed that we have to go all the way to Naperville to watch NCC get triple monkey stomped by us instead of watching it in Perkins stadium. They're not in our our league both literally and figuratively and their disposition towards playing us is as big an indicator as any.

... or this:

I feel this bracket actually insures us going to Salem because we are going to beat the crap out of those teams who are seeded ahead of us......

... or this:

Lets just be honest.  Purple vs Purple is what everyone was expecting and what everyone will get this year.  MTU and UWW can play all there games away and it wont matter.  They will still be playing each other in Salem.  MTU and UWW are head over heels above each team in all of D3.

... or this:

Rd three we will play a team who thinks they are good in NCC; in reality they are slow, small, cocky (for what??), and the result will be exactly the same as the last time they tried to pretend they were on our level.

... as disrespectful.

Yeah, that was pretty epic. Maybe I could have used a different way to express my feelings but I don't regret saying it. I will respect the CCIW once they decide that they are going to play top teams from the WIAC in their non-conference schedule. It's hard to respect a team that scheduled the worst teams that they could find. This is not said in anger or anything; it's the opinion of most WIAC followers.

At the end of the day, my opinion or your opinion are the same in the sense that they don't matter. All that matters is what our boys do on the field. I have utmost confidence that my Warhawks will not let us down.

[Mugsy]

Certainly mean no disrespect to NC or the CCIW in terms of the level of upset here in WIAC country today.

Boy, it's a good thing that the the WIACers mean no disrespect to NCC or the CCIW. I sure wouldn't want anyone to take this:

North Central just lost its chance to win with one pissed off UWW team.

... or this:

Triple monkey stomp in Naperville IFNorth Central even makes it that far. Enjoy the complimentary NCAA road accomodations. I guess the Warhawks get two free vacations before they get to Salem.

... or this:

BTW, the CCIW sucks.

... or this:

I don't think anyone is worried. We're just pissed that we have to go all the way to Naperville to watch NCC get triple monkey stomped by us instead of watching it in Perkins stadium. They're not in our our league both literally and figuratively and their disposition towards playing us is as big an indicator as any.

... or this:

I feel this bracket actually insures us going to Salem because we are going to beat the crap out of those teams who are seeded ahead of us......

... or this:

Lets just be honest.  Purple vs Purple is what everyone was expecting and what everyone will get this year.  MTU and UWW can play all there games away and it wont matter.  They will still be playing each other in Salem.  MTU and UWW are head over heels above each team in all of D3.

... or this:

Rd three we will play a team who thinks they are good in NCC; in reality they are slow, small, cocky (for what??), and the result will be exactly the same as the last time they tried to pretend they were on our level.

... as disrespectful.

Hmm... I dunno GS.  I think you might have missed one, maybe two more?

At this point any posturing really doesn't matter other than to generate a lot of noise on the boards.  I'd rather focus on the actual 1st round match ups and the strengths vs. weaknesses for each perspective team.  Hence my post last night attempting to understand what makes Coe tick and what challenges Wheaton will face.

While there is some controversy over the seeding of teams, it was based on the decisions of the committee.  Right or wrong the players, coaches and fans can not change that, no matter how many posts, statement or opinion/rebuttal, or point/counter-point.

Every year some team is left out that probably shouldn't have, or a team makes it that in the eyes of many is not worthy.  Every year some team is not quite seeded correctly.  Some years are worse than others.

My point (rambling as it may be) is that the coaches and teams are now focused on their first opponent and only on their first opponent.  What happens on the field will determine who the next champion is.  (gee, thanks Sherlock for stating the obvious)

The only possible way to change the current playoff brackets would be if someone argued against the current playoff pairings/seeding and then used the "check the tape" or "watch the film".   As you all know that trumps any argument or logic.  

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

LOL.  Not a huge Adam Sandler fan, but that line delivered in complete dead-pan way by the principal was hilarious.  My first thought was "Old School", but that was another very funny debate spoof by Will Ferrall.