FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[emma17]

Regarding non con scheduling for next year, I don't see any good reason why NCC and UWW should play each other.  NCC doesn't need to "find out what it takes" to get to the next level any more.  Both teams play in tough conferences and neither would be guaranteed a pool C bid if they took a loss in conference along with one in non con play.  

I would much rather see both teams play middle to upper class opponents from each other's conferences.  

On another note, I don't understand the high regard in the polls for ONU throughout the season, and now with the final rankings.  I'd put Trine ahead of them in a heartbeat.  

[usee]

I did put Trine ahead of them in my poll. But remember they only lost to #2 and #3 and played a much tougher schedule than Trine. But I agree with you and have Trine at #6 in my poll with ONU #11

[lakeshore]

D3 History being made this Sunday?

2 active D3 players from the same school will face each other in an NFL game.  Wheaton's Studebaker for the Cheifs and Wheaton's Ittersagen for the Titans.  Wouldn't that make a great cover picture for this webpage?

[robertgoulet]

Since all 3 of NCC's AAs were seniors, I fear their chance may have gone by the by for now.

I believe that one of their AAs has a year of remaining eligiblity and is strongly considering returning for a 5th year.  Nothing is certain until it is certain however (my take off on Yogi's, "It ain't over...).  Beyond that, I wouldn't be so quick to slam the window, given the players that the Cardinals will have on their roster in the fall (including tose currently on campus and those that my transfer in during January or September).

Yeah, but Wenger, especially, may be a once-in-forever talent that is irreplaceable.  I have little doubt that NCC is still the favorite in the CCIW, and probably a top 10 (perhaps even top 5) team, but for cracking the Big Two ...?

Wenger was a HUGE reason why Coppage got barely over one-third the yards against NCC that he got against UMU!

Are you working on any plans to get Wenger another year?!

Mr. Y - didn't we say the same thing when Radtke left? If I'm not mistaken he was also a D3 AA as MLB. Obviously Wenger is more talented, but if you replace him with an AA talent you won't drop off as much as some expect.

I expected a huge drop when Lenny left, and look what happened.

[Son of Tailgater]

Lol.. of course it's to stir things up, it's a discussion board.

Okay, so let me explain a little here to make more sense. C. Worth, J. Beaver, L. Coppage were all great RB's for UWW right in a row. Some may say that UWW just get outstanding RB's, this maybe the case. However, anyone that knows anything in the coaching world knows Steve Dinkel at UWW. He is an outstanding OL coach that has wrote several books, as well as a DVD series. When I said product of a system I meant you can plug any good RB at UWW and their productivity will be as same as Coppage (IMO). UWW is known for the biggest, meanest O-Linemen in D-3 (do I dare say NAIA, D2?). You look back to UWW NCC I you could have driven a truck through some of those holes. I am not taking anything from those RB's at UWW, all I'm saying their Oline has be awesome that past 8+ years.

In retrospect, yeah I spoke out of my limits to say Coppage might not have started at NCC.... but it does make one wonder...

As for recruitment: NCC vs UWW: also keep in mind NCC academic standards are far more strenuous then UWW. This will limit some high profile D3 recruits. I personally spoke to an athlete at UWW that got into the school with a 16 ACT. I just don't see NCC letting a student in with that kind of score, and never heard of such things.

Nonetheless, those that have been on the CCIW board knows I like to stir up things... I find it fun to look at different views, even if they're wrong. It's the fruit of life 

Happy Holidays

To go on this I was heavily recruited by UWW back in 2002-2003. I liked what I saw and would even say today that UWW was my 2nd choice as a school. The one item that I could not get past was that I was never introduced to the head coach on my visit nor did I ever speak with him on the phone. It might have been something small but I found it strange and can remember wondering if they had head coach issues at the time or if the head coach was just not involved in recruiting.

They also told me that I would be an all-conference player at any conference I went to in D3 and that they would be competing for a national title during my time there (2003-2006). I have to admit that I found that hard to believe since they were 5-5 in 2001 and 5-5 in 2002 and even 7-3 in both 2003 and 2004 before making it to the Stagg Bowl in 2005. They ended up being right in both predictions which is very respectable.

I do not think academics played a factor when I was being recruited but who knows if things have changed. If I can remember it was more difficult academically to get into UWW than it was NCC at the time. 

[NCF]

Since all 3 of NCC's AAs were seniors, I fear their chance may have gone by the by for now.

I believe that one of their AAs has a year of remaining eligiblity and is strongly considering returning for a 5th year.  Nothing is certain until it is certain however (my take off on Yogi's, "It ain't over...).  Beyond that, I wouldn't be so quick to slam the window, given the players that the Cardinals will have on their roster in the fall (including tose currently on campus and those that my transfer in during January or September).

Yeah, but Wenger, especially, may be a once-in-forever talent that is irreplaceable.  I have little doubt that NCC is still the favorite in the CCIW, and probably a top 10 (perhaps even top 5) team, but for cracking the Big Two ...?

Wenger was a HUGE reason why Coppage got barely over one-third the yards against NCC that he got against UMU!

Are you working on any plans to get Wenger another year?!

Mr. Y - didn't we say the same thing when Radtke left? If I'm not mistaken he was also a D3 AA as MLB. Obviously Wenger is more talented, but if you replace him with an AA talent you won't drop off as much as some expect.

I expected a huge drop when Lenny left, and look what happened.

There will be enough pressure on the kid who takes Wenger's spot, but since he has the confidence of the DC give the kid a break and see what he does on the field. He might suprise you, especially since he will only be a junior next year and has had field experience as both a freshman and sophomore.

[Augie6]

Lol.. of course it's to stir things up, it's a discussion board.

Okay, so let me explain a little here to make more sense. C. Worth, J. Beaver, L. Coppage were all great RB's for UWW right in a row. Some may say that UWW just get outstanding RB's, this maybe the case. However, anyone that knows anything in the coaching world knows Steve Dinkel at UWW. He is an outstanding OL coach that has wrote several books, as well as a DVD series. When I said product of a system I meant you can plug any good RB at UWW and their productivity will be as same as Coppage (IMO). UWW is known for the biggest, meanest O-Linemen in D-3 (do I dare say NAIA, D2?). You look back to UWW NCC I you could have driven a truck through some of those holes. I am not taking anything from those RB's at UWW, all I'm saying their Oline has be awesome that past 8+ years.

In retrospect, yeah I spoke out of my limits to say Coppage might not have started at NCC.... but it does make one wonder...

As for recruitment: NCC vs UWW: also keep in mind NCC academic standards are far more strenuous then UWW. This will limit some high profile D3 recruits. I personally spoke to an athlete at UWW that got into the school with a 16 ACT. I just don't see NCC letting a student in with that kind of score, and never heard of such things.

Nonetheless, those that have been on the CCIW board knows I like to stir up things... I find it fun to look at different views, even if they're wrong. It's the fruit of life  

Happy Holidays

Even though I still don't agree with your initial comment about Coppage not being able to start at NCC (which you somewhat backed off of in this post), at least in this post you included details/thought behind your statement of opinion.  

I do agree with your premise that UWW has one of the best, if not the best OLine's in D3.  You don't have their level of success without dominating in the trenches.  I agree to some extent that the OLine will make life easier on the UWW RB's and in some regard make them more productive than they would be if you put them on another team with less talented linemen.  It would NOT make them any less talented of a RB however.

Where I disagree with you and think it would be an oversimplification, is to imply that you can plug in any RB into the UWW system and produce an All-American, the likes of Coppage.  That would be taking away to much credit from Coppage or Beavers who proceded him.  I think UWW has one of the best OLine's year in and year out AND they have some very talented, tough RB's as well.

On the one hand you state "you don't want to take anything away from those RB's at UWW", but then you say "you can plug any good RB at UWW and their productivity will be as same as Coppage".  I'm trying to figure out how this is "not taking anything away" from Coppage.  

Has UWW had great offensive lines the past several seasons?  You bet. And guess what.  They wouldn't have won 3 national championships without those lines.  Based on your logic, Nate Kmic was simply a good RB at Mt. Union because he ran behind some great offensive lines.  Sulo ran behind some pretty good O lines at NCC, so he must have been just a product of the system as well.  You don't get to a level to compete for a national championship year in and year out without having great line play on both sides of the ball.  To then minimize the talent level of the RB's on those types of teams is just ridiculous. 

It will be interesting to see how NCC follows up this season.  No question that they took a step up on the national scene this year but, can they sustain it?  Would I put the program at the level of UWW or UMU?  Not yet.  Until they can actually beat one of those teams and get further than the quarters, they would be more in line with the UMHB's, Wesleys, Linfields, etc. IMO.  Clearly the class of the CCIW right now and this year's team was probably the best CCIW team since the Augie championship teams of the 80's.  Looking forward to next year to see if they can take that next step and to see what a new head coach means to the program at Augie.   

[New Tradition]

Since all 3 of NCC's AAs were seniors, I fear their chance may have gone by the by for now.

I believe that one of their AAs has a year of remaining eligiblity and is strongly considering returning for a 5th year.  Nothing is certain until it is certain however (my take off on Yogi's, "It ain't over...).  Beyond that, I wouldn't be so quick to slam the window, given the players that the Cardinals will have on their roster in the fall (including tose currently on campus and those that my transfer in during January or September).

Yeah, but Wenger, especially, may be a once-in-forever talent that is irreplaceable.  I have little doubt that NCC is still the favorite in the CCIW, and probably a top 10 (perhaps even top 5) team, but for cracking the Big Two ...?

Wenger was a HUGE reason why Coppage got barely over one-third the yards against NCC that he got against UMU!

Are you working on any plans to get Wenger another year?!

Mr. Y - didn't we say the same thing when Radtke left? If I'm not mistaken he was also a D3 AA as MLB. Obviously Wenger is more talented, but if you replace him with an AA talent you won't drop off as much as some expect.

I expected a huge drop when Lenny left, and look what happened.

RG,

You beat me to it. People tend to forget about Lenny, but he STILL holds the school's all time tackle record over Wenger by 44, and is STILL playing at a very high level for the Chicago Slaughter arena team. We were wringing our hands wondering what we were going to do when he graduated.

[emma17]

Augie6-
"they would be more in line with the UMHB's, Wesleys, Linfields, etc. IMO"

Your comment reminded me of the whole "tier 2" discussion.   Is entrance into tier 2 contingent upon repeat success?  Does a team gain entrance into tier 2 if they haven't reached or nearly reached the semis on a regular basis? 

I don't know the answer to the above.  I have stated before that I felt NCC was Stagg caliber this year- and ended up being hurt the most by the tunnel vision seeding approach of the committee.  I believe if NCC played any of the teams you listed above, NCC would have prevailed- this year.

   

[Pat Coleman]

There are two many teams in tier 2 to make the semifinals a good measuring stick. Only two semifinal spots are really available, when you think about it, once the tier 1 teams advance.

[Augie6]

Augie6-
"they would be more in line with the UMHB's, Wesleys, Linfields, etc. IMO"

Your comment reminded me of the whole "tier 2" discussion.   Is entrance into tier 2 contingent upon repeat success?  Does a team gain entrance into tier 2 if they haven't reached or nearly reached the semis on a regular basis? 

I don't know the answer to the above.  I have stated before that I felt NCC was Stagg caliber this year- and ended up being hurt the most by the tunnel vision seeding approach of the committee.  I believe if NCC played any of the teams you listed above, NCC would have prevailed- this year.

   

E17

I agree that NCC was a team that could compete with UWW and Mt. Union and is probably the 3rd best team in the country, this year.  It remains to be see if they can do it consistently.  Competing is one thing, winning is another.  Until someone beats UWW and/or Mount, to me, there are those two teams and everyone else.  As Pat stated, there have been many teams that could qualify as "tier 2" over the past several years.  Haven't gotten too caught up in that discussion, however.  People remember champions and not the best of the rest. 

[emma17]

Pat,
I did write "If they haven't reached or NEARLY reached the semis on a regular basis".   

By the way, can you provide insight into the ranking of ONU at #8 in the country?  Usee mentioned that their only losses came to the #2 and #3 team in the country, which I get.  But in both of those games, they were completely outplayed it appears to me.   Both Linfield and Trine seem like they would have scored a bunch on ONU, and ONU certainly didn't seem to have an explosive offense. 

[robertgoulet]

Augie6-
"they would be more in line with the UMHB's, Wesleys, Linfields, etc. IMO"

Your comment reminded me of the whole "tier 2" discussion.   Is entrance into tier 2 contingent upon repeat success?  Does a team gain entrance into tier 2 if they haven't reached or nearly reached the semis on a regular basis? 

I don't know the answer to the above.  I have stated before that I felt NCC was Stagg caliber this year- and ended up being hurt the most by the tunnel vision seeding approach of the committee.  I believe if NCC played any of the teams you listed above, NCC would have prevailed- this year.

   

E17

I agree that NCC was a team that could compete with UWW and Mt. Union and is probably the 3rd best team in the country, this year.  It remains to be see if they can do it consistently.  Competing is one thing, winning is another.  Until someone beats UWW and/or Mount, to me, there are those two teams and everyone else.  As Pat stated, there have been many teams that could qualify as "tier 2" over the past several years.  Haven't gotten too caught up in that discussion, however.  People remember champions and not the best of the rest. 

A6 - a few weeks ago this was one of my main questions. Yes, NCC should probably be considered "tier 1" in 2010, but can we sustain it? It's one thing to make it to that level, it's quite another thing to stay at that level. I will be very interested to see how this run effects NCC's recruiting efforts going forward. NCC is located in an area that is pretty darn talent-rich (and regular rich), if they can convince a few more kids to stay home and play football instead of going "away" to UWW or these D1-AA schools I think their future is possibly just as bright as UWW or Mt Union.

[Augie6]

RG,

I did say that NCC could compete with UWW and UMU this year, however, I don't consider them to be in the "tier 1" of D3 because they played UWW tough.  If that were the case, Trine would have to be in the discussion as well, because they went on the road and were tied with UWW going into the 4th before losing.  Until we don't have the annual match-up between those two in the Stagg Bowl, there is UWW and UMU and everyone else.

I certainly understand the excitement of the NCC faithful based on how the program has progressed since Thorne arrived.  The program has grown tremendously, but I'm not ready to annoit them as the next UWW or UMU.  I do think there is potential for this to happen, but they are not there yet.  I can't forget that they were heavy favorites to win the CCIW last year and highly nationally ranked, and then didn't make the playoffs.  I know there were injuries, but championship teams overcome them as UWW did with losing their starting QB this year in the playoffs.  IMO, talk of being the next UWW or UMU is a bit pre-mature when the best showing ever for the program on the national stage is a quarterfinal loss.

Hope you don't take this as me being critical of the NCC program.  I have nothing but respect/admiration (and a little bit of envy) for what has happened there over the past several years.  I just can't justify talking about the program in the same breath as UWW or UMU yet.

[robertgoulet]

RG,

I did say that NCC could compete with UWW and UMU this year, however, I don't consider them to be in the "tier 1" of D3 because they played UWW tough.  If that were the case, Trine would have to be in the discussion as well, because they went on the road and were tied with UWW going into the 4th before losing.  Until we don't have the annual match-up between those two in the Stagg Bowl, there is UWW and UMU and everyone else.

I certainly understand the excitement of the NCC faithful based on how the program has progressed since Thorne arrived.  The program has grown tremendously, but I'm not ready to annoit them as the next UWW or UMU.  I do think there is potential for this to happen, but they are not there yet.  I can't forget that they were heavy favorites to win the CCIW last year and highly nationally ranked, and then didn't make the playoffs.  I know there were injuries, but championship teams overcome them as UWW did with losing their starting QB this year in the playoffs.  IMO, talk of being the next UWW or UMU is a bit pre-mature when the best showing ever for the program on the national stage is a quarterfinal loss.

Hope you don't take this as me being critical of the NCC program.  I have nothing but respect/admiration (and a little bit of envy) for what has happened there over the past several years.  I just can't justify talking about the program in the same breath as UWW or UMU yet.

If I didn't explain well enough, I apologize, but that's what I was getting at. NCC may have been on the cusp of Tier 1 this year (the one point we do disagree on), but they have to prove that they can reload at that level, that's a whole different animal and we won't know that answer until next year.

Honestly, and I don't think NCC my fellow NCC backers will like this, I kind of think NCC may have missed their best shot at the title. You had a year where both UWW and Mt Union had injuries to key players late in the playoffs, NCC was healthy, we had Wenger back for his final year, home field advantage into the semi's.

I do hope I am wrong and NCC reloads. I didn't think we would when Lenny left in 05, but we plugged in Wenger and he turned out to be better than Lenny. I generally don't like being wrong, but in this case I will gladly accept it