FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Stagg Again!!]

on that note (and very tired of hearing NFL labor talk) who are the CCIW's top returning offensive playmakers for 2011?

1.  Scottie Williams - RB - Elmhurst
2.  David Lee - QB - Augie
3.  Joe Antonacci - KR/PR - NCC
4.  Joey Driver - WR - IWU
5.  Jordan Roberts - QB - Wheaton
6.  Mike Koeneman - WR - Carthage
7.  Rodney Payton - WR - Elmhurst
8.  Jordan Tassio - RB - NCC
9.  Zac McCullough - WR - Augie
10.Peter Jarrett - RB - Wheaton

Kovo86 --

I don't necessarily agree that there are many other All-American candidates in the CCIW ranks.  I thought that lakeshore put together a good list to start the discussion about the league's top returning offensive players.  Would you say that David Lee or Jordan Roberts are better than Brad Boyle or a fully-recovered Alex Tanney?  I would not.  Would you say that Scottie Williams or Jordan Tassio are better than Lavelle Coppage?  Nope.  If you want a good comparison, look at what Scottie Williams did against NCC last year and then look at what Lavelle Coppage did -- no comparison.  I was at both games and (to paraphrase) Scottie Williams is no Lavelle Coppage.  While there is certainly A LOT of firepower on this list, I don't know if there are any offensive players that would break through on my pre-season All-American list.  I will note though that I would have given strong consideration to including Joe Antonacci from NCC on the list as a return specialist. 

The defensive side of the ball is a different story, however.  I do believe that there are a few that might merit some consideration from NCC, IWU, WC, and AC.  Perhaps one of the experts could put together a preliminary list of the top CCIW defensive players.  Clearly, Josh McCleod, Valente Garza, Willie Hayes from NCC; Ryan Gresko and Scott Wenzel from IWU and Jordan Langs from WC should be considered for inclusion on the list.  I am sure that Gresko got consideration for pre-season All-American, but I, too, would have given the nod to Greg Arnold from UWW over Gresko. 

I look forward to seeing a list of the pre-season top CCIW defensive players that any of the experts can pull together.

[Kovo]

Ralph,

I have followed the boards for years, but only recently have  posted comments.  With that said, my intent was stir up trouble but to 1)  Find out how the AA teams are picked (which I still do not have an answer; and 2)  Open up the discussion on the relative talent of the CCIW compared to the various upper tier leagues around the country.

Quite frankly, I have always believed that the CCIW is very strong from top to bottom, even though it has lacked the dominant team like a MTU or UWW since the Augie teams of the 80s.  Perhaps the answer is that there are simply better players around the country, at certain positions, (as Stagg suggests), then what the CCIW teams have to offer.

I would like to hear what the fans of other teams in the league have to say on this topic.  And, of course I realize that none of this discussion has anything to do with wins and losses (or league titles), but is simply something for the fans to debate in the off season.  But, after all, I am nothing more than a CCIW fan waiting in the off season.......


However, in the future, I will try to stick to the off season uniform threads, and add my two cents that I loved the plain silver helmets (with three middle strips) that Elmhurst wore in the mid 80s.

[Kovo]

My intent was not to stir up trouble to clarify my previous post.

[Pat Coleman]

Chosen by D3football.com staff from 2010 All-Region nominations, while taking into account candidates returning from injury or players we expect will break out.

[d3fan1515]

I understand that Coppage is a great player, but do you think the best RB in the CCIW would have similar numbers against NCC if they had levelle's Oline to run behind? For example, would Williams have as good of a game against NCC if he was running behind the best oline in the nation (UWW). Let's be honest I think there is a little bit of a difference running behind UWW's Oline over Elmhurst's. I am not trying to take anything away from Coppage, he is very deserving of AA honors and is a great runner, I'm just trying to stir he pot and see what others think!

[lakeshore]

maybe Coppage is the best back in the country.  I would take Williams over Clinton Orr.  Orr goes for 66 vs. Wheaton, Williams goes for 159.  I also do not believe Tanney would have the same numbers if he were playing against CCIW defenses.  Great pre-season talk though.  

I was surprised to not see WC kicker Scott Roche on the list after leading NCAA III in field goals in 2010.

[lakeshore]

on that note (and very tired of hearing NFL labor talk) who are the CCIW's top returning offensive playmakers for 2011?

1.  Scottie Williams - RB - Elmhurst
2.  David Lee - QB - Augie
3.  Joe Antonacci - KR/PR - NCC
4.  Joey Driver - WR - IWU
5.  Jordan Roberts - QB - Wheaton
6.  Mike Koeneman - WR - Carthage
7.  Rodney Payton - WR - Elmhurst
8.  Jordan Tassio - RB - NCC
9.  Zac McCullough - WR - Augie
10.Peter Jarrett - RB - Wheaton

Kovo86 --

I don't necessarily agree that there are many other All-American candidates in the CCIW ranks.  I thought that lakeshore put together a good list to start the discussion about the league's top returning offensive players.  Would you say that David Lee or Jordan Roberts are better than Brad Boyle or a fully-recovered Alex Tanney?  I would not.  Would you say that Scottie Williams or Jordan Tassio are better than Lavelle Coppage?  Nope.  If you want a good comparison, look at what Scottie Williams did against NCC last year and then look at what Lavelle Coppage did -- no comparison.  I was at both games and (to paraphrase) Scottie Williams is no Lavelle Coppage.  While there is certainly A LOT of firepower on this list, I don't know if there are any offensive players that would break through on my pre-season All-American list.  I will note though that I would have given strong consideration to including Joe Antonacci from NCC on the list as a return specialist. 

The defensive side of the ball is a different story, however.  I do believe that there are a few that might merit some consideration from NCC, IWU, WC, and AC.  Perhaps one of the experts could put together a preliminary list of the top CCIW defensive players.  Clearly, Josh McCleod, Valente Garza, Willie Hayes from NCC; Ryan Gresko and Scott Wenzel from IWU and Jordan Langs from WC should be considered for inclusion on the list.  I am sure that Gresko got consideration for pre-season All-American, but I, too, would have given the nod to Greg Arnold from UWW over Gresko. 

I look forward to seeing a list of the pre-season top CCIW defensive players that any of the experts can pull together.

I would also add that Roberts clearly out-dueled Boyle in the playoffs a year ago.  Not to take anything away from Boyle.

[Kovo]

d3fan,

You raise a great point about Coppage that is difficult to answer.  Does the O-line make the back, or does the back make the O-line? 

Years ago I worked with one of the starting O-lineman at Plymouth State for Joe Dudek.  He told me that many people (at the time), said Dudek was the beneficiary of a great O-line.  However, in his opinion, they were a  good O-line, that Dudek made great.

Just some food for thought.

[matblake]

I was surprised to not see WC kicker Scott Roche on the list after leading NCAA III in field goals in 2010.

I wasn't too surprised.  There were several fields goals that he should have made right around the 30 yard mark.  The points have to be automatic for a kicker.  I haven't checked the stats, but he may have attempted more field goals, thus making him more likely to lead the list.

Modified to correct spelling

[matblake]

maybe Coppage is the best back in the country.  

I think he is.  Every time I saw him carry the ball, there was a possibility he could take it all the way.  Different style of runner, but that potential reminded me of Nate Kmic or Justin Beaver.

Plus, Coppage was the dagger in the Stagg. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GsZkCzrU7w

modified to add correct link

[Stagg Again!!]

I understand that Coppage is a great player, but do you think the best RB in the CCIW would have similar numbers against NCC if they had levelle's Oline to run behind? For example, would Williams have as good of a game against NCC if he was running behind the best oline in the nation (UWW). Let's be honest I think there is a little bit of a difference running behind UWW's Oline over Elmhurst's. I am not trying to take anything away from Coppage, he is very deserving of AA honors and is a great runner, I'm just trying to stir he pot and see what others think!

Agreed.  A great OL can certainly make an average RB better and a weak OL can make an average or good RB (or QB) look bad (I think the Chicago Bears last year provided a good example of that!).  I did think about this when I wrote my post.  UWW was blessed with some fantastic OL up front -- most of whom have now graduated.  The differences between Williams and Coppage were obvious when you saw the two play.  Coppage has an ellusiveness that Williams does not.  Coppage has a DEADLY spin move that makes DL and LBs miss.  Coppage has a third gear that he can kick into when he breaks into the open field (see last year's Stagg Bowl film).  Williams gets tracked down more easily.  Coppage will hit the line and pop to the left or right to create opportunities.  Williams has a bit of this, but not as much.  Coppage rarely goes down at the point of contact.  Williams does.  

All of this said, I like Williams and really like Elmhurst's offense this coming year.  They have a great mix of running and passing, a talented QB in Furco (BTW, throw his name in as an Offensive MVP candidate) and WRs, and a great QB coach (props to Aaron Fanthorpe).  I think EC will put up a lot of points if they can find the consistency that they did not have at times last year.  Where EC may struggle is on the defensive side of the ball.  Life will be different without the beast, Randy Wright.

[Kovo]

Stagg,

I agree that Elmhurst's O should be very good this year, and Williams will be a major part of the success.

However, I see Coppage as an elite runner, who only lacks the size (but not the skills) of a top D1 back.  I threw out the Dudek name because I think Coppage could be that good with any decent O-line play.  However, we are in a different media era, and I can't see a D3 back finishing in the top 10 of Heisman voting (like Dudek) ever again.

[robertgoulet]

Hooray! The board is aliiiiiiive! I hate the slumber period from January-July.

[Pat Coleman]

I was surprised to not see WC kicker Scott Roche on the list after leading NCAA III in field goals in 2010.

I wasn't too surprised.  There were several fields goals that he should have made right around the 30 yard mark.  The points have to be automatic for a kicker.  I haven't checked the stats, but he may have attempted more field goals, thus making him more likely to lead the list.

Modified to correct spelling

Here's Roche's numbers -- we had two returning All-American kickers from last year and no compelling reason to jump Roche past either of them.

FIELD GOALS     FGM-FGA  Pct 01-19 20-29 30-39 40-49 50-99 Lg Blk
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Roche            18-28  64.3  0-0   6-10  8-11  3-4   1-3  52   2

FG SEQUENCE          Wheaton College       OPPONENTS
----------------------------------------------------
Albion College       23,(32),(22),(31)     (22),47,(30)
UW-Platteville       (39),47,(28),(40)     (30),(36)
Olivet College       (28),50,25            -
Illinois Wesleyan    (29)                  -
Elmhurst             -                     (20),27
North Park           (33)                  -
Carthage             34,22,39              (22)
Augustana            (25),(52),(42),(32)   22,32
North Central        (39),(33)             -
Millikin University  34,(20),24            -
Coe College          51,(32)               -
Bethel Univ. (Minn.) (49)                  (27)

[hazzben]

Coppage is elite. Simply put. That's not taking anything away from the serious skills of UWW's O-line.

If I had to pick the elite DIII backs of the last 15 or so years (taking into consideration the talent around them) my list would include, in no particular order:

L Coppage
N Kmic
C Moore
RJ Bowers
J Beaver
T Sutton
A Moriarty
T Arcidiacono
M Kacmarynski
P Porta
F Jackson

Some of these guys were brilliant players on brilliant teams that got loads of much deserved national attention. Others were brilliant players with solid, but not brilliant supporting casts and less national exposure. The latter were often the focal point of those offenses and opponents had the luxury of scheming to stop only one truly great player. Some were brilliant players with very average O-lines that affected their statistical awe factor.

My 2¢, which is certainly limited by geography to an extent.

Who would you add?