FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Kovo]

HAZZ Been the rule if I remember it correctly (mugsy help me out here), is I believe you only get 10 game participations (not including post season). EC has a full JV schedule of 5 or 6 games I believe. In the non conference most of those players play regardless so playing the freshman in conference games is tough to do and still get them full games on JV. Also you do not want to count a game if all of a sudden week seven you get a whole bunch of injuries and you use a guy on a Saturday and a Monday as you get to 10 really quickly. EC has always tried to separate the two so there was never a close area crossed. Also like many teams some of the primary back ups are a banged up as it is so it is a tough call to say to a starter to sit and play a freshman and lose that game for them on JV. It's a constant battle of win today but build for the future.

Yeah, that is my basic recollection of the rule (been awhile since I've had to recall it).  If you have a decent freshman or sophomore player who is contributing on special teams, it makes a challenge to weighing special teams and garbage time vs. a full JV game.

I do recall my freshman year that I only played 1 maybe 2 JV games as a result of this rule.

So is this a CCIW rule then? I'm almost positive the MIAC teams with JV squads commonly have guys who see the field with the varsity and get action playing in JV games. In particular, we were annoyed on a few occasions when a player who'd seen extensive playing time on Saturday was playing against our JV on Monday.

Yes this is a CCIW rule however how you get to the 10 total played contests is up to the individual schools and their scheduling. If they only schedule 2 JV games then a JV player only has to sit out 2 regular sat games. It is much more difficult when you have a full slate of 5 or 6 JV games as I mentioned.

Actually, this is an NCAA rule.  See 17.9.5, "Number of Contests"...

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D312.pdf

The exemptions are noted - for example, NCAA tournament games and one preseason scrimmage per season.

A JV game and a varsity game both count as one game.  When a player enters a varsity game late in a blowout, that is one less JV game they can play.  I'm not sure how many JV games each CCIW team typically plays, but I know IWU will play 5 this year...

http://www.iwusports.com/sports/2011/6/23/FB_0623110435.aspx?path=football

Does anyone know when the rule became effective?  It seems that "back in the day" the freshman and sophomores (on many teams), would appear on special teams in the varsity game for a handful of plays, and then play the JV game on Monday.  You could often tell the guys who dressed for the varsity games because they had the helmet decals, where the purely JV players did not.

In any event, I would like to hear  the collective opinion of this board on the wisdom of the rule.

[Pat Coleman]

If you read the rule it noted it was effective the fall of 1992.

I think it's fair to limit the number of contests in this way. In high school they often do this by number of quarters but those things are not really tracked at the college level. The point of the rule is games are games are games, whether at the varsity level or otherwise.

[NCF]

Random thoughts after the NCC/Augie game:

Interesting that Dicken, a true freshman, is now the starter at QB.  I think he is going to be great, but will have some growing pains.  He made a great throw from his end zone in the 4th quarter on 3rd and long only up 7. 

Too many penalties again.  This is just killing them.

Wasting timeouts continues to be an issue.   Be it personnel or confusion, this continues to be something that could cost us in a close game.

Defense was outstanding!  The speed in the secondary is the best I have seen at NCC.

Disagree with you on Dicken. Not ready for prime time--yet. I'm not sure if he will still be the starter next week, will know more later during the week.

Agree with you on the defense--getting better every week.

Wasting time-outs has been an issue during the past few seasons and the stupid penalties are just killing the momentum.

The offense needs to step up and get on the same page as the defense. The road gets very tough starting next week-end and with IWU, Elmhurst and Wheaton in three consecutive weeks, there is no room for mediocrity.

[Gregory Sager]

Tough game to broadcast yesterday at Hedstrand Field. (Incidentally, Chuck, thanks for the heads-up about the wind noise over the mics. I'll look into that for next week.) The defense just isn't getting it done for NPU. F'rinstance, Wesleyan's big tight end Carroll, with whom NPU did not really have a good matchup, ran roughshod over the Vikings, and yet they did not try to jam him at the line. And the arm tackling continues to be a serious issue for the Park-- even early in the game, when it shouldn't be a matter of exhaustion. To IWU's credit, Rob Gallik is a solid QB who made one great decision with the ball after another yesterday.

The running game was OK for the Park, but the Vikings weren't able to sustain any drives with it ... and the whole point of the option is to sustain drives. The passing game, such as it is -- zero for eleven -- was terrible. The issue here, as pointed out by my broadcast partner Rob Dubicz, may be that pass plays just aren't getting enough reps in practice, which I suppose is an inevitable problem in the option offense. As an example of the pass game not being in sync, on the same set of downs Tyler Krebs twice badly overthrew a wide-open Sam Cochiaro on long passes down the right sideline, and the third time when Cochiaro ran the same pattern Krebs put the ball right into his hands at the two ... and Cochiaro dropped it. All three times Cochiaro was wide open, and any or all of those three passes would've been touchdowns. Krebs also suffered through about two or three other very catchable passes being dropped by various players.

The worst aspect of the offense was the three lost fumbles. Lost fumbles have just killed any slim chance NPU has had over the past two weeks of staying competitive against Elmhurst and Wesleyan.

The bright spots -- and there were some bright spots, despite the lopsided score -- were outstanding games by a pair of defensive backups, freshman nose tackle Greg Drain and junior linebacker Talaave Meyers, and a blocked punt that unfortunately went uncredited in the line score.

Given two stinging defeats like that, it could be very easy for team morale to permanently go south, which is usually what happens to NPU right about at this point in the season. And next week's not gonna get any easier, what with Wheaton coming to town. The Vikings just have to hang with it and stay positive. That's gonna be difficult, but perseverance is what it's all about when you're at the bottom and you're trying to claw your way up to the next rung on the ladder.

I find it odd as a neutral spectator. That no one will pay attention to IWU. In a year with no dominant team, everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that they are still undefeated. Especially with how injuries have plagues other teams, are we looking at a potential CCIW champion?

Oh, I'm paying attention.  I texted a good friend of mine who was at the NC/Augie game (that I watched on the net) that as of today, I believe IWU is the best team in the conference (man, that hurts to type).  Who will win the CCIW?  I have no idea --but there are still three or four legitimate candidates.  But, so far, IWU has beeen the best team in the league---even through my red and white colored glasses.

I was actually much more impressed by Elmhurst than I was by IWU, not that NPU did much to slow either team down or dent either team's D. I think that the 'jays have more difference-makers on offense, and the no-huddle makes them harder to hold at bay. However, the Wheaton folks probably see it the opposite way, and let's face it: If they do, they have the facts on their side and I don't.

[AndOne]

Random thoughts after the NCC/Augie game:

Interesting that Dicken, a true freshman, is now the starter at QB.  I think he is going to be great, but will have some growing pains.  He made a great throw from his end zone in the 4th quarter on 3rd and long only up 7. 

Too many penalties again.  This is just killing them.

Wasting timeouts continues to be an issue.   Be it personnel or confusion, this continues to be something that could cost us in a close game.

Defense was outstanding!  The speed in the secondary is the best I have seen at NCC.

Disagree with you on Dicken. Not ready for prime time--yet. I'm not sure if he will still be the starter next week, will know more later during the week.

Agree with you on the defense--getting better every week.

Wasting time-outs has been an issue during the past few seasons and the stupid penalties are just killing the momentum.

The offense needs to step up and get on the same page as the defense. The road gets very tough starting next week-end and with IWU, Elmhurst and Wheaton in three consecutive weeks, there is no room for mediocrity.

Does anyone know specifically why Dicken started against Augustana? Is Crackel injured? Crackel's completion percentage is 58% and his efficiency rating is 140. These numbers don't appear to be too shabby, yet he was replaced. Anyone have any more inside info?

[Mugsy]

As expected, very little movement in top 25 this week.  No change in the top 13, so NCC still at #6.  IWU and Wheaton move up a couple of spots each.  #16 and #17 respectively.

[Tailgater]

Congratulations to Carthage Head Coach Tim Rucks for achieving his 100th career coaching win in Decator this weekend! He has brought Carthage football a long way over his tenure.

[Son of Tailgater]

Congratulations to Carthage Head Coach Tim Rucks for achieving his 100th career coaching win in Decator this weekend! He has brought Carthage football a long way over his tenure.

We just need to get past the standard 7-3 and 6-4 barrier that we have been at since 2004. I see Carthage as the 4th/5th team in the conference this year but I wouldn't overlook them upsetting Wheaton or IWU. They have both of them at home and Kenosha is not the easiest place to travel to for a win. They will need to beat one or the other for pool C consideration. You can't overlook anyone in the CCIW so Augie, Elmhurst and North Park are not ones to look past as well.

[HoosierRedMan]

Congratulations to Carthage Head Coach Tim Rucks for achieving his 100th career coaching win in Decator this weekend! He has brought Carthage football a long way over his tenure.

We just need to get past the standard 7-3 and 6-4 barrier that we have been at since 2004. I see Carthage as the 4th/5th team in the conference this year but I wouldn't overlook them upsetting Wheaton or IWU. They have both of them at home and Kenosha is not the easiest place to travel to for a win. They will need to beat one or the other for pool C consideration. You can't overlook anyone in the CCIW so Augie, Elmhurst and North Park are not ones to look past as well.

Could not agree more and hopefully last Saturday's come back at Millikin gives them some confidence going to Rock Island this week.  The Defense is playing very well and will continue to keep them in games and the offense showed life last week.  The 97 yard drive was a good sign.

[79jaybird]

Same old laughable story at Elmhurst.  They put up big numbers in the non conference, maybe pick up a win or two in the CCIW, but when the big dogs come a calling,  they are still 2-3 strides behind the pack.  I knew this game was going to side with the midnight blue & orange.  We have not played well at McCully since the 80's.  Trust me, there is no better, ethical HC in the CCIW than Coach Swider and he would NEVER rub  it in. 

I was not at the game, but looking at the score sheet,  looks like Wheaton had their offense on cruise control all day.   Turnovers and field position considering favoring WC has been the tale of the tape the last (3) times to McCully and what I remember most about these road trips.

[79jaybird]

Congrats to Coach Rucks and well deserved. 

[shepherd]

Same old laughable story at Elmhurst.  They put up big numbers in the non conference, maybe pick up a win or two in the CCIW, but when the big dogs come a calling,  they are still 2-3 strides behind the pack.  I knew this game was going to side with the midnight blue & orange.  We have not played well at McCully since the 80's.  Trust me, there is no better, ethical HC in the CCIW than Coach Swider and he would NEVER rub  it in. 

I was not at the game, but looking at the score sheet,  looks like Wheaton had their offense on cruise control all day.   Turnovers and field position considering favoring WC has been the tale of the tape the last (3) times to McCully and what I remember most about these road trips.

After watching the dvd copy of the game one big thing that the Wheaten announcer kept calling out was that Elmhurst was telegraphing their blitzes.  Elmhurst is definitely a talented team Wheaton seemed to have a good plan for the Elmhurst blitzes which gave some guys one on one coverage.  I'm glad we didn't have to play them at Elmhurst like IWU does. 

[Always.A.Titan]

I hope everyone missed me! A week in Northwest Wisconsin fishing for Musky does the body and mind and soul good. But, it is now back to the real world.

Good stuff on the updates from the past 2 weekends. I am excited for the next 5 weeks of conference play and the ensuing weeks after with some CCIW teams playing into December.

As I expected, IWU took care of business in Chicago this past weekend. They need another sharp performance before they start looking ahead to homecoming and the redbirds. Elmhurst is not always the easiest trip and back to back weekends in Chicago is probably as rough as it gets for IWU travel.

At least we have da Bears tonight! Makes Monday morning work a little less awful

[79jaybird]

Go Thunder good points.  Do you agree this would fall under "coaching" and good coach or lack there of? 

[Mugsy]

Same old laughable story at Elmhurst.  They put up big numbers in the non conference, maybe pick up a win or two in the CCIW, but when the big dogs come a calling,  they are still 2-3 strides behind the pack.  I knew this game was going to side with the midnight blue & orange.  We have not played well at McCully since the 80's.  Trust me, there is no better, ethical HC in the CCIW than Coach Swider and he would NEVER rub  it in. 

I was not at the game, but looking at the score sheet,  looks like Wheaton had their offense on cruise control all day.   Turnovers and field position considering favoring WC has been the tale of the tape the last (3) times to McCully and what I remember most about these road trips.

After watching the dvd copy of the game one big thing that the Wheaten announcer kept calling out was that Elmhurst was telegraphing their blitzes.  Elmhurst is definitely a talented team Wheaton seemed to have a good plan for the Elmhurst blitzes which gave some guys one on one coverage.  I'm glad we didn't have to play them at Elmhurst like IWU does.

I want to call out that Coach Davis had an absolute stellar offensive game plan against Elmhurst. He clearly knew exactly what Elmhurst was going to do, found some weaknesses and attacked.  Clearly the players executed, but the scheme was a thing of beauty.

It was already mentioned by someone over the last couple of pages, but I do think Coach Swider/Coach Sandberg's plan to have Jordan Langs lock up on Rodney Payton instead of one of Wheaton's corners played a significant part in disrupting Elmhurst's attack (at least the passing game).  Langs is considerably more physical than the corners, but every bit as quick & fast to match up with Payton. 

Unless there was an injury that was not know about, Payton seemed just a bit off his game all day.  He came in averaging over 33 yards a kick return, which would easily be in the top 10 for all of D3, but he only averaged 22 yards a return on Saturday (and looked a bit passive).  Payton had 7 catches for 82 yards & 1 TD, which isn't a bad day, but not game changing either. 3 of the catches came after the game was well in hand.