FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[augiefan]

NPU is on the verge of getting the monkey off their back. They outplayed this year's woeful Augie team and should won that game but for a few breakdowns on long pass plays. Once NP wins one of these close ones more will follow.

[Gregory Sager]

"On the verge" just ain't cutting it. Yeah, the two nail-biter losses in a row are a sign that the Vikings are moving forward as a program and that NPU is no longer an automatic win for everyone in the league. But these losses are harder to take than the blowouts that have constituted the bulk of the 80-game CCIW losing streak. A sense of positive expectation is starting to build around the team -- and any positive vibe is an alien sensation for North Park football -- and those expectations make the letdown of a close loss that much worse.

[USee]

If Wheaton wins by 15 pts or more Saturday, they are the AQ. If not, the Thornebirds are the AQ. The hardest part about a scenario in which 3 CCIW teams getting in is having Wheaton win Saturday by less than 15pts. If that were to happen, it would be fairly probable in my opinion that all 3 make the field. In that scenario, I could easily see Wheaton ahead of both schools in the regional rankings. Nowhere the criteria does it say you can't have 3 teams from the same conference. It also doesn't say IWU should be ranked ahead of Wheaton when there is a 3 way tie. So to assume Wheaton would be behind IWU in the regional rankings is a fallacy. The fact is Wheatons  numbers are better than both of the other CCIW schools and if they get to the table for pool C they would rank ahead of most if not all of the field based on the criteria. So would IWU. So if there are any spots left in pool C when the lower ranked of IWU/Wheaton get to the table, they will be a strong candidate vs anyone else imo.

[lakeshore]

"On the verge" just ain't cutting it. Yeah, the two nail-biter losses in a row are a sign that the Vikings are moving forward as a program and that NPU is no longer an automatic win for everyone in the league. But these losses are harder to take than the blowouts that have constituted the bulk of the 80-game CCIW losing streak. A sense of positive expectation is starting to build around the team -- and any positive vibe is an alien sensation for North Park football -- and those expectations make the letdown of a close loss that much worse.

Even an 8-2 Wheaton/NCC still would have a legitimate case to bring to the Pool C table if there any spots left.  Especially with the question mark reguarding at large berths coming from the other power conferences.  The OAC may not have an at large, nor will the IIAC or the WIAC.  So the committee has to decide to take a 9-1 at large team from a weak conference or take an 8-2 Wheaton/NCC from the CCIW.  With the CCIW playoff history you could say this would present a discussion.

[Always.A.Titan]

Studebaker comes up with a huge fumble recovery on MNFB and has his pick on the home page of ESPN and Sports Illustrated!

Living in KC, it's great to see him do well. Kansas and Mizzou have almost no DIII presence so most people have no concept of the quality of play at our level. (KC is also dominated by 3 FBS schools and home to 2 very good DII schools) It's great to be able to point to a player on the Chiefs roster and say, that is the type of player DIII is capable of producing. 

Beat me to it...I love seeing the D-III schools represented in the NFL.

Who's the best Division III alum currently playing in the NFL?  Off the top of my head, I can think of Fred Jackson (Coe/Bills), Studebaker (Wheaton/Chiefs), and Pierre Garcon (Mt. Union/Colts).

Don't forget London Fletcher (John Caroll/Redskins).  2010 Pro Bowler and has never missed a game in his career.  Second longest active streak in the NFL.

I do believe Cecil Shorts III, also out of MUC, is on the roster for the Jaguars.

[USee]

I think there is no chance for an 8-2 team to get an at large bid. Just like there is no criteria suggesting you can't take 3 teams from 1 conference, there is no criteria that says "Conference A is stronger than Conference B and should get more teams". The format is set up for the best teams, based on the criteria, to get in. That's why conference winners from weak leagues get an AQ every year. It's really a system built on fair access to the playoffs not subjective power rankings.

[NCF]

If Wheaton wins by 15 pts or more Saturday, they are the AQ. If not, the Thornebirds are the AQ. The hardest part about a scenario in which 3 CCIW teams getting in is having Wheaton win Saturday by less than 15pts. If that were to happen, it would be fairly probable in my opinion that all 3 make the field. In that scenario, I could easily see Wheaton ahead of both schools in the regional rankings. Nowhere the criteria does it say you can't have 3 teams from the same conference. It also doesn't say IWU should be ranked ahead of Wheaton when there is a 3 way tie. So to assume Wheaton would be behind IWU in the regional rankings is a fallacy. The fact is Wheatons  numbers are better than both of the other CCIW schools and if they get to the table for pool C they would rank ahead of most if not all of the field based on the criteria. So would IWU. So if there are any spots left in pool C when the lower ranked of IWU/Wheaton get to the table, they will be a strong candidate vs anyone else imo.

Just askin...are you saying Wheaton wins this game hands down and they have better numbers in every category than the other two schools?

[robertgoulet]

If Wheaton wins by 15 pts or more Saturday, they are the AQ. If not, the Thornebirds are the AQ. The hardest part about a scenario in which 3 CCIW teams getting in is having Wheaton win Saturday by less than 15pts. If that were to happen, it would be fairly probable in my opinion that all 3 make the field. In that scenario, I could easily see Wheaton ahead of both schools in the regional rankings. Nowhere the criteria does it say you can't have 3 teams from the same conference. It also doesn't say IWU should be ranked ahead of Wheaton when there is a 3 way tie. So to assume Wheaton would be behind IWU in the regional rankings is a fallacy. The fact is Wheatons  numbers are better than both of the other CCIW schools and if they get to the table for pool C they would rank ahead of most if not all of the field based on the criteria. So would IWU. So if there are any spots left in pool C when the lower ranked of IWU/Wheaton get to the table, they will be a strong candidate vs anyone else imo.

Just askin...are you saying Wheaton wins this game hands down and they have better numbers in every category than the other two schools?

To be more specific (reading between the lines here), it sounds to me like he's predicting:

Breakfast of Champions - 119
Current CCIW Champions - 6

[matblake]

If Wheaton wins by 15 pts or more Saturday, they are the AQ. If not, the Thornebirds are the AQ. The hardest part about a scenario in which 3 CCIW teams getting in is having Wheaton win Saturday by less than 15pts. If that were to happen, it would be fairly probable in my opinion that all 3 make the field. In that scenario, I could easily see Wheaton ahead of both schools in the regional rankings. Nowhere the criteria does it say you can't have 3 teams from the same conference. It also doesn't say IWU should be ranked ahead of Wheaton when there is a 3 way tie. So to assume Wheaton would be behind IWU in the regional rankings is a fallacy. The fact is Wheatons  numbers are better than both of the other CCIW schools and if they get to the table for pool C they would rank ahead of most if not all of the field based on the criteria. So would IWU. So if there are any spots left in pool C when the lower ranked of IWU/Wheaton get to the table, they will be a strong candidate vs anyone else imo.

Just askin...are you saying Wheaton wins this game hands down and they have better numbers in every category than the other two schools?

To be more specific (reading between the lines here), it sounds to me like he's predicting:

Breakfast of Champions - 119
Current CCIW Champions - 6

I believe usee is simply talking about playoff criteria which includes Win/Loss v Regional Opp, Regional Strength of Schedule (OWP & OOWP), In region head to head, in region results v common opponents, and results v regionally ranked opponents.

But seeing as you are fans of SoDup, I can see how you misunderstood.   

[NCF]

If Wheaton wins by 15 pts or more Saturday, they are the AQ. If not, the Thornebirds are the AQ. The hardest part about a scenario in which 3 CCIW teams getting in is having Wheaton win Saturday by less than 15pts. If that were to happen, it would be fairly probable in my opinion that all 3 make the field. In that scenario, I could easily see Wheaton ahead of both schools in the regional rankings. Nowhere the criteria does it say you can't have 3 teams from the same conference. It also doesn't say IWU should be ranked ahead of Wheaton when there is a 3 way tie. So to assume Wheaton would be behind IWU in the regional rankings is a fallacy. The fact is Wheatons  numbers are better than both of the other CCIW schools and if they get to the table for pool C they would rank ahead of most if not all of the field based on the criteria. So would IWU. So if there are any spots left in pool C when the lower ranked of IWU/Wheaton get to the table, they will be a strong candidate vs anyone else imo.

Just askin...are you saying Wheaton wins this game hands down and they have better numbers in every category than the other two schools?

To be more specific (reading between the lines here), it sounds to me like he's predicting:

Breakfast of Champions - 119
Current CCIW Champions - 6

I believe usee is simply talking about playoff criteria which includes Win/Loss v Regional Opp, Regional Strength of Schedule (OWP & OOWP), In region head to head, in region results v common opponents, and results v regionally ranked opponents.

But seeing as you are fans of SoDup, I can see how you misunderstood.   

..which will all change after saturday if the red (SoDup to you former Crusader guys)team wins

[ncc58]

I think there is no chance for an 8-2 team to get an at large bid.

That, I agree with.

[USee]

to clarify, Naperville's numbers don't matter. If they lose by less than 15 they are the AQ. Lose by more than that and they are watching games in November/December. The primary criteria for selection of pool C are:

Win-loss percentage against regional opponents.
• Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).
- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP), weighted 2/3.
- Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP), weighted 1/3.
See Appendix J for explanation of OWP and OOWP calculations.
• In-region head-to-head competition.
• In-region results versus common regional opponents.
• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.

With a win Saturday (and presuming the other teams win out) Wheaton will have the strongest SOS numbers (Currently the SOS numbers are Wheaton .581 (19th), SoDup .583 (20th), IWU .566 (35th). In region HTH is split among the 3, In region v common opponents is also equal, in region v RRO may be a dfferentiator if someone like Hope sneaks in. Outside of that, each team will have 1 win against RRO. So it comes down to SOS and Wheaton's is the best. They have Naperville and Millikin left, IWU has Carthage and Augie, Naperville has Wheaton and NPU so presumably those stay the same or slightly better for Wheaton.

Obviously, these numbers don't have any impact on the outcome of the game Saturday.

[NCF]

to clarify, Naperville's numbers don't matter. If they lose by less than 15 they are the AQ. Lose by more than that and they are watching games in November/December. The primary criteria for selection of pool C are:

Win-loss percentage against regional opponents.
• Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).
- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP), weighted 2/3.
- Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP), weighted 1/3.
See Appendix J for explanation of OWP and OOWP calculations.
• In-region head-to-head competition.
• In-region results versus common regional opponents.
• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.

With a win Saturday (and presuming the other teams win out) Wheaton will have the strongest SOS numbers (Currently the SOS numbers are Wheaton .581 (19th), SoDup .583 (20th), IWU .566 (35th). In region HTH is split among the 3, In region v common opponents is also equal, in region v RRO may be a dfferentiator if someone like Hope sneaks in. Outside of that, each team will have 1 win against RRO. So it comes down to SOS and Wheaton's is the best. They have Naperville and Millikin left, IWU has Carthage and Augie, Naperville has Wheaton and NPU so presumably those stay the same or slightly better for Wheaton.

Obviously, these numbers don't have any impact on the outcome of the game Saturday.

...and with a win Saturday, North Central stands alone on top and Wheaton will be the team watching games in November/December.  At 8-2 Wheaton would most likely not get a spot, with two losses in region.

[Mugsy]

to clarify, Naperville's numbers don't matter. If they lose by less than 15 they are the AQ. Lose by more than that and they are watching games in November/December. The primary criteria for selection of pool C are:

Win-loss percentage against regional opponents.
• Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).
- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP), weighted 2/3.
- Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP), weighted 1/3.
See Appendix J for explanation of OWP and OOWP calculations.
• In-region head-to-head competition.
• In-region results versus common regional opponents.
• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.

With a win Saturday (and presuming the other teams win out) Wheaton will have the strongest SOS numbers (Currently the SOS numbers are Wheaton .581 (19th), SoDup .583 (20th), IWU .566 (35th). In region HTH is split among the 3, In region v common opponents is also equal, in region v RRO may be a dfferentiator if someone like Hope sneaks in. Outside of that, each team will have 1 win against RRO. So it comes down to SOS and Wheaton's is the best. They have Naperville and Millikin left, IWU has Carthage and Augie, Naperville has Wheaton and NPU so presumably those stay the same or slightly better for Wheaton.

Obviously, these numbers don't have any impact on the outcome of the game Saturday.

...and with a win Saturday, North Central stands alone on top and Wheaton will be the team watching games in November/December.  At 8-2 Wheaton would most likely not get a spot, with two losses in region.

Agreed.  I don't think anyone is questioning whether or not an 8-2 Wheaton has a chance at playoffs. 

This year they don't.  Primarily because SoDup would be the AQ and IWU (provided they beat Carthage & Augie) will likely get a pool C slot.  There are too many teams from multiple regions that would get a Pool C slot before an 8-2 Wheaton team.

Saturday is all or nothing for Wheaton.

[Titan Q]

to clarify, Naperville's numbers don't matter. If they lose by less than 15 they are the AQ. Lose by more than that and they are watching games in November/December. The primary criteria for selection of pool C are:

Win-loss percentage against regional opponents.
• Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).
- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP), weighted 2/3.
- Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP), weighted 1/3.
See Appendix J for explanation of OWP and OOWP calculations.
• In-region head-to-head competition.
• In-region results versus common regional opponents.
• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.

With a win Saturday (and presuming the other teams win out) Wheaton will have the strongest SOS numbers (Currently the SOS numbers are Wheaton .581 (19th), SoDup .583 (20th), IWU .566 (35th). In region HTH is split among the 3, In region v common opponents is also equal, in region v RRO may be a dfferentiator if someone like Hope sneaks in. Outside of that, each team will have 1 win against RRO. So it comes down to SOS and Wheaton's is the best. They have Naperville and Millikin left, IWU has Carthage and Augie, Naperville has Wheaton and NPU so presumably those stay the same or slightly better for Wheaton.

Obviously, these numbers don't have any impact on the outcome of the game Saturday.

In the 3-way tie scenario (where NCC wins the AQ), in terms of IWU vs Wheaton as a Pool C, I think the head-to-head result might end up being the biggest factor.  That criterian seems to get a ton of weight when applicable (when there actually is a head-to-head result between two Pool C candidates).  Wheaton, of course, would own the win over NCC (a "regionally ranked team"), as well as a small edge in SOS...but that head-to-head factor is enormous.

This is why as a Titan fan I feel pretty good about IWU being ranked ahead of Wheaton in the 3-way tie scenario.  Put it this way - I'd much rather own the head-to-head result than I would the small SOS edge or the "result vs ranked opponent."

I certainly could be wrong though.