FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[NCF]

If you haven't yet seen it, read this column written by SI's Rick Reilly about the Paterno legacy.

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7492873/rick-reilly-paterno-true-legacy

Yep. That's what Reilly wrote in January, when the media first broke the news about the Sandusky scandal.

Now read what Reilly had to say just this past week, after the release of the Freeh Report:

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8162972/joe-paterno-true-legacy

Still remind you of Woody Hayes, Dahlby?

WOW-Miss a day-miss a lot! Great articles and it isn't over yet. Every new bit of information sickens me. We'll see how many people join Sandusky in jail.

[emma17]

A little off topic, but in light of the new report surrounding Penn State-comments, thoughts? What should the NCAA do?

IMHO the NCAA should whack them.  In my mind, I have never seen a more complete and total "lack of institutional control" as what went on at Penn State.  And, now it is clear that the football program was used as a vehicle to harm children, with the knowledge and consent of the coaching staff and the school administration.  So, I believe that it is much worse than Reggie Bush's parents receiving the free use of a house, or kids at Ohio State getting free tattoos.  SMU received the "death penalty" for much much less than the ignoring of the rape of children.

However, D1 is guided by the quest for dollars, and PSU is extremely profitable, so I don't suppose that the NCAA will show much interest, which is disgraceful and embrassing.

I don't understand how whacking Penn St football does a bit of good for anything or anybody. Prosecute those that knew. Those from Penn St that had nothing to do with this horror are already being punished enough.

The problem with this argument, IMO, is that it assumes the guilty parties can be limited to four or five men in leadership. From Head Coach to AD on up the chain.

What makes the Freeh report so damning is that there was an entire culture at Penn State that created this problem. The students who were rioting when the news broke aren't guiltless (google some youtube videos to see how these students act to opposing fans in pre game festivities and tell me there's not a lack of accountability that pervades all of that campus). They aren't nearly as guilty Sandusky (no one is) or JoePa, but they are a part of the problem. The entire University contributed to an ethos that hid a predator to protect a program/image that were a cash cow for the Penn State brand and endowment building.

When you have janitors witnessing crimes, but paralyzed to come forward because they are convinced, even if the evidence is there, that to do so will result in being terminated, you've got a seriously off the rails problem.

Thanks for responding respectfully- I am obviously in the minority on this one. Hate the sin but love the sinner. IMO it doesn't require a death sentence or any other campus wide penalty to ensure Penn St learns the proper lesson from this.  Does anyone really believe that if the NCAA doesn't institute a major penalty that the Penn St Board of Regents won't make the necessary changes to prevent this from ever happening again? Do people envision members of the administration secretly hoping the NCAA won't impose sanctions because they want to commence the committing of horrific crimes?
Penn St will end up implementing greater organizational control and oversight than probably any university without the NCAA issuing a single penalty.

A couple things here, and I'm really not trying to pile on emma, I appreciate the tone of your posts.

1. Hate the sin, love the sinner doesn't mean the sin goes unpunished. Some are reacting out of self-righteous vitriol. That's the wrong impulse and the wrong reason to come down on PSU. But those with wrong motives don't remove the need for a response.

2. If SMU deserved the death penalty for a pervasive culture of paying players, how does a campus wide football culture that protects pedophile rapists for the sake of reputation and $$ not deserve something far graver? This is a watershed moment for the NCAA and all of college football going forward.

3. The issue isn't just PSU learning their lesson. One would hope they've learned their lesson, but it really seems like they are more upset that they got caught - hence why they allowed him to lurk on campus for a decade after they knew how perverted he was. But it goes deeper. PSU as an institution and PSU football as a program should be punished for the part they played in this mess. When I punish my son it's not only to teach him to behave differently in the future, it's also because his past actions have earned discipline.

4. I agree with the notion that all current players should be given a one time chance to transfer with no loss eligibility or need to sit out a season. I also agree that victories should be vacated. JoePa may have won the games, but it was only because they covered up a scandal of this magnitude. If this hadn't been buried, it absolutely would have affected his ability to weather the storm/slump mid-decade and would have hurt recruiting. Not sure he ever breaks Robinsons mark without the coverup.

5. Whether they will actually drop the bomb on PSU is another thing altogether. It's one thing to nail SMU, it's another to knock off a blue-blood program like Penn State. This shouldn't matter, but it will affect what happens.

Bottom line, the whole thing is one disgusting mess. No amount of jail time for Sandusky or monetary reparations to the victims will ever remove this stigma. A death penalty won't take away the scars. But for almost 15 years these victims and their parents have been assaulted and tortured with a culture that not only didn't act, it protected an environment that perpetuated the evil. In many ways, the death penalty to PSU wouldn't be enough.

You start your reply by stating "the problem is it assumes  the guilty parties can be limited to 4 or 5...". How is limiting the presumption of guilt a "problem"?  I'm all in favor of the presumption of innocence.

The students are part of the problem because of their appreciation for the good Paterno has done for the university that directly impacts their college lives?  I had the good fortune to visit the Penn St campus last month and was in awe at its beauty and capital investment. On a much smaller scale, I've seen the UWW campus improve dramatically in the last few years. Students from both universities have benefitted greatly from football success and revenue. The fact that students demonstrate an understanding of that IMO doesn't translate in any shape, way or form to complicity to crimes and ignorance of a few.

Shame on that janitor if he protected his job over protecting the kids. All of us are accountable for our actions.

SMU and Penn St situations are not the same and the idea that the NCCA's action toward one should somehow inform their actions toward the other is a bit misguided 

[hazzben]

You start your reply by stating "the problem is it assumes  the guilty parties can be limited to 4 or 5...". How is limiting the presumption of guilt a "problem"?  I'm all in favor of the presumption of innocence.

The students are part of the problem because of their appreciation for the good Paterno has done for the university that directly impacts their college lives?  I had the good fortune to visit the Penn St campus last month and was in awe at its beauty and capital investment. On a much smaller scale, I've seen the UWW campus improve dramatically in the last few years. Students from both universities have benefitted greatly from football success and revenue. The fact that students demonstrate an understanding of that IMO doesn't translate in any shape, way or form to complicity to crimes and ignorance of a few.

Shame on that janitor if he protected his job over protecting the kids. All of us are accountable for our actions.

SMU and Penn St situations are not the same and the idea that the NCCA's action toward one should somehow inform their actions toward the other is a bit misguided 

I'm all for the presumption of innocence. But I also want a response that deals with those who've been shown to be guilty. If the Freeh report established anything, it's that this problem was systematic. It wasn't just JoePa and co. It was admin, donors, other coaches, students, campus police, et al. Look no further than their responses. A tragedy occurred, and rather than mourn for the victims, students and the broader Penn State community took to the streets in protest of how it was affecting their beloved coach. Turns out, he was guilty of far more than he was initially accused.

If you need further proof about the way the student body is implicated in the ethos of football idolatry at Penn State, I give you Exibit A. *Note: I apologize for the vulgar and offensive language (so please be forewarned), but it just further demonstrates how messed up the culture there really was.

Now, is Penn State the only school with these issues of out of whack priorities? No way. But as of now, they are the only school, to my knowledge, that protected a serial pedophile from exposure and consequences. And when the guilt was revealed, responded with vitriol and a victim mentality that totally missed who the real victims were. So yeah, I'll say it again. We are wrong to think there are only 4-5 guilty parties in this mess...There is an entire culture at this university that needs to be dealt with.

If you think the students love JoePa simply because he gave money to libraries, etc. then you are out of touch. They worshipped this man because he won football games. And then leveraged that influence into a situation where he was untouchable and unaccountable, because they had, as you say "appreciation for the good Paterno has done for the university that directly impacts their college lives." As long as the campus is beautiful, the endowment grows and buildings are built, 'hear no evil, see no evil...' That attitude is precisely the problem that needs rectifying and retribution. The real victims deserve much more than this, but certainly no less.

And yes, SMU and Penn State are different. The former pales in comparison to the evil of the latter. Not a mere quantitative difference, qualitative. The punishments - both judicially and athletically - should reflect this, IMO.

[NCF]

You start your reply by stating "the problem is it assumes  the guilty parties can be limited to 4 or 5...". How is limiting the presumption of guilt a "problem"?  I'm all in favor of the presumption of innocence.

The students are part of the problem because of their appreciation for the good Paterno has done for the university that directly impacts their college lives?  I had the good fortune to visit the Penn St campus last month and was in awe at its beauty and capital investment. On a much smaller scale, I've seen the UWW campus improve dramatically in the last few years. Students from both universities have benefitted greatly from football success and revenue. The fact that students demonstrate an understanding of that IMO doesn't translate in any shape, way or form to complicity to crimes and ignorance of a few.

Shame on that janitor if he protected his job over protecting the kids. All of us are accountable for our actions.

SMU and Penn St situations are not the same and the idea that the NCCA's action toward one should somehow inform their actions toward the other is a bit misguided 

I'm all for the presumption of innocence. But I also want a response that deals with those who've been shown to be guilty. If the Freeh report established anything, it's that this problem was systematic. It wasn't just JoePa and co. It was admin, donors, other coaches, students, campus police, et al. Look no further than their responses. A tragedy occurred, and rather than mourn for the victims, students and the broader Penn State community took to the streets in protest of how it was affecting their beloved coach. Turns out, he was guilty of far more than he was initially accused.

If you need further proof about the way the student body is implicated in the ethos of football idolatry at Penn State, I give you Exibit A. *Note: I apologize for the vulgar and offensive language (so please be forewarned), but it just further demonstrates how messed up the culture there really was.

Now, is Penn State the only school with these issues of out of whack priorities? No way. But as of now, they are the only school, to my knowledge, that protected a serial pedophile from exposure and consequences. And when the guilt was revealed, responded with vitriol and a victim mentality that totally missed who the real victims were. So yeah, I'll say it again. We are wrong to think there are only 4-5 guilty parties in this mess...There is an entire culture at this university that needs to be dealt with.

If you think the students love JoePa simply because he gave money to libraries, etc. then you are out of touch. They worshipped this man because he won football games. And then leveraged that influence into a situation where he was untouchable and unaccountable, because they had, as you say "appreciation for the good Paterno has done for the university that directly impacts their college lives." As long as the campus is beautiful, the endowment grows and buildings are built, 'hear no evil, see no evil...' That attitude is precisely the problem that needs rectifying and retribution. The real victims deserve much more than this, but certainly no less.

And yes, SMU and Penn State are different. The former pales in comparison to the evil of the latter. Not a mere quantitative difference, qualitative. The punishments - both judicially and athletically - should reflect this, IMO.

Excellent posts! I heard on the news today that the current president of Penn State is considering shutting down the football program and could decide in the next few days to take down the statue. What a horrible mess- all in the pursuit of football victories!

[dahlby]

In this instance, I cannot go along with pulling the plug on the football program. Upper administration officials did not react when they should have, but now want to punish the innocent football players and staff that had nothing to do with the incidents. That is not right!

[NCF]

In this instance, I cannot go along with pulling the plug on the football program. Upper administration officials did not react when they should have, but now want to punish the innocent football players and staff that had nothing to do with the incidents. That is not right!

Unfortunately, the current players always pay for the sins of the past. What is really not right is what happened to the victims. The tragedy is that some of them would never have been violated had Paterno and Co. done the right thing in the first place.

[hazzben]

In this instance, I cannot go along with pulling the plug on the football program. Upper administration officials did not react when they should have, but now want to punish the innocent football players and staff that had nothing to do with the incidents. That is not right!

Unfortunately, the current player's always pay for the sins of the past. What is really not right is what happened to the victims. The tragedy is that some of them would never had been violated had Paterno and Co. done the right thing in the first place.

That's what I find so devastating. Not to minimize the pain of the first victims, but the coverup that led to later victims is so difficult.

And just to be clear, if they were to kill the program, I think you have to allow those players to transfer immediately without consequence to their eligibility. They should also be forced to pay the salaries of their coaches for at least a season to ensure they aren't left blowing in the wind.

We can all agree that this is just one messy, sad situation, no matter how we differ in our opinions of how best to deal with it. There is much to be learned from this...

[NCF]

In this instance, I cannot go along with pulling the plug on the football program. Upper administration officials did not react when they should have, but now want to punish the innocent football players and staff that had nothing to do with the incidents. That is not right!

Unfortunately, the current player's always pay for the sins of the past. What is really not right is what happened to the victims. The tragedy is that some of them would never had been violated had Paterno and Co. done the right thing in the first place.

That's what I find so devastating. Not to minimize the pain of the first victims, but the coverup that led to later victims is so difficult.

And just to be clear, if they were to kill the program, I think you have to allow those players to transfer immediately without consequence to their eligibility. They should also be forced to pay the salaries of their coaches for at least a season to ensure they aren't left blowing in the wind.

We can all agree that this is just one messy, sad situation, no matter how we differ in our opinions of how best to deal with it. There is much to be learned from this...

....and we can only hope that they are learned!

[NCF]

Kudos to Wheaton College for filing suit against portions of the new health care law! More Christian colleges need to stand up for their beliefs and jump in!

[emma17]

Kudos to Wheaton College for filing suit against portions of the new health care law! More Christian colleges need to stand up for their beliefs and jump in!

Wow Ncf, from one hot topic to another.  On this subject I am happy to report- I agree!!

[NCF]

Kudos to Wheaton College for filing suit against portions of the new health care law! More Christian colleges need to stand up for their beliefs and jump in!

Wow Ncf, from one hot topic to another.  On this subject I am happy to report- I agree!!

What a crazy summer this has been-intense heat and hot topics. But it does bring people to the boards while we're waiting for football to start:). Maybe next week we can discuss the Olympics?

[NCF]

Kudos to Wheaton College for filing suit against portions of the new health care law! More Christian colleges need to stand up for their beliefs and jump in!

Wow Ncf, from one hot topic to another.  On this subject I am happy to report- I agree!!

E17- a few more hot topics:1. the lunatic in Colorado or 2. the Feds possibly slapping PSU for not reporting Sandusky's actions when they first became aware of the situation. This world just gets crazier everyday. No wonder I worry everytime the kids go out!

[emma17]

Kudos to Wheaton College for filing suit against portions of the new health care law! More Christian colleges need to stand up for their beliefs and jump in!

Wow Ncf, from one hot topic to another.  On this subject I am happy to report- I agree!!

E17- a few more hot topics:1. the lunatic in Colorado or 2. the Feds possibly slapping PSU for not reporting Sandusky's actions when they first became aware of the situation. This world just gets crazier everyday. No wonder I worry everytime the kids go out!

The world has its share of bad, but there is a heck of a lot more good - thank God.

Sports question- are there any CCIW athletes that made the Olympics?  We had a discuss thrower come close.

[NCF]

Kudos to Wheaton College for filing suit against portions of the new health care law! More Christian colleges need to stand up for their beliefs and jump in!

Wow Ncf, from one hot topic to another.  On this subject I am happy to report- I agree!!

E17- a few more hot topics:1. the lunatic in Colorado or 2. the Feds possibly slapping PSU for not reporting Sandusky's actions when they first became aware of the situation. This world just gets crazier everyday. No wonder I worry everytime the kids go out!

The world has its share of bad, but there is a heck of a lot more good - thank God.

Sports question- are there any CCIW athletes that made the Olympics?  We had a discuss thrower come close.

Yes, Millikin grad (06), Lance Brooks hit the qualifying toss (231-9) in the discus on his last throw in the trials.

[cciwfootballfan]

Nancy Swider-Peltz Jr, a former Wheaton College swimmer and current student, competed in long-track speedskating at the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver finishing 4th and 9th in her 2 races.
Nancy is the daughter of long-time Wheaton football coach Jeff Peltz and Nancy Swider-Peltz Sr, and the neice of head football coach Mike Swider.
Nancy Swider-Peltz Sr was an All-American swimmer for Wheaton College, a Wheaton College graduate, a 4 time olympian and also a former world record holder. Nancy Sr competed in the 76, 80, 84, and 88 Winter Olympics, also in long-track speedskating.
Nancy Sr has been coaching American speedskaters since her days as a competitor. Currently Nancy Sr is coaching Nancy Jr and son Jeffrey to hopefully make the 2014 Winter Olympics.