FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[formerd3db]

Coach Conway and his assistants are going to have to get some other players on offense anyway, USee. NPU can't effectively run the option offense currently in place with the players it has, even though by and large they came in as option-experienced freshmen. North Park simply lacks the speed to make that offense -- or any offense -- work against CCIW defenses.

I don't want to sound like Mr. Pessimist. A change in head coaches is always a hopeful time. But I'm not going to turn a blind eye to NPU's football situation. The facts are that North Park has not had a winning season since 1968, or a CCIW win since 2000, and the team took a backwards step this past season from the season before, even though it had a lot more experience. Hope springs eternal, but realism is a perennial as well.

You know better than any of us Sager and from what you've provided us in the past and recently on the "state of NPU football", I can understand and agree.  Although Coach Conway appears to be a program builder at his previous stops, whether as head coach or a coordinator, I assume/hope he knows what he has got himself into.  As you say..."hope springs eternal".

[New Tradition]

Congrats to:
Scotty!
Mark!
Charlie!
Erik!
and Brandon!

Well done and well deserved, gentlemen!!

[New Tradition]

All American teams were revealed.  I have a really hard time believing there were 8 RB's in the country better than Nick Kukuc. 

And not a soul from the defense who held the best running back in the country under 100 yards.  Cardinals the only team with a share of the CCIW title to get zero love.  I suppose it speaks to the overall team effort?

[NCF]

All American teams were revealed.  I have a really hard time believing there were 8 RB's in the country better than Nick Kukuc. 

And not a soul from the defense who held the best running back in the country under 100 yards.  Cardinals the only team with a share of the CCIW title to get zero love.  I suppose it speaks to the overall team effort?

So you snub the guys that got the job done? And give a spot to a guy from a mediocre 5-5 team.  A slap in the face and a farce. In four years Wiliams had ZERO rushing TD's and only one receiving (and that came as a soph). What a shame.

[formerd3db]

All American teams were revealed.  I have a really hard time believing there were 8 RB's in the country better than Nick Kukuc. 

And not a soul from the defense who held the best running back in the country under 100 yards.  Cardinals the only team with a share of the CCIW title to get zero love.  I suppose it speaks to the overall team effort?

So you snub the guys that got the job done? And give a spot to a guy from a mediocre 5-5 team.  A slap in the face and a farce. In four years Wiliams had ZERO rushing TD's and only one receiving (and that came as a soph). What a shame.

All American teams were revealed.  I have a really hard time believing there were 8 RB's in the country better than Nick Kukuc. 

And not a soul from the defense who held the best running back in the country under 100 yards.  Cardinals the only team with a share of the CCIW title to get zero love.  I suppose it speaks to the overall team effort?

Well, that is always sad when such situations happen with the post-season selections, whatever venue those may be, whether a league's annual team or regionally or otherwise.  There are always players who are the most deseving of selection who get passed over and, yes, even snubbed, when they should have been selected ahead of someone else.  I've always been very disappointed when this happens.  I've seen times when just because a team had a poor record that year, a player or two from that team, who was clearly a league leader in many categories gets snubbed because "to the victor goes the spoils".  I also personally have a problem when players get selected just because they have been selected to the team 2 or 3 years in a row and particularly when it is clear they underperformed during the year as compared to previous years and in comarison to others in the same year who were not selected, yet should have been.

While no one desires to take away from those players who are selected to one of the post-season honors teams, it is a simple fact (as we all know) that the politics of such will always be there.  That's a shame, but it is just the way it is and while we can't do anything about it, it doesn't mean we have to like it.  

[Augie6]

All American teams were revealed.  I have a really hard time believing there were 8 RB's in the country better than Nick Kukuc. 

And not a soul from the defense who held the best running back in the country under 100 yards.  Cardinals the only team with a share of the CCIW title to get zero love.  I suppose it speaks to the overall team effort?

So you snub the guys that got the job done? And give a spot to a guy from a mediocre 5-5 team.  A slap in the face and a farce. In four years Wiliams had ZERO rushing TD's and only one receiving (and that came as a soph). What a shame.

So I'm assuming from this you're talking about the CCIW Defensive Player of the Year, Erik Westerberg.  You're also talking about Scottie Williams who was the CCIW Offensive Player of the Year and the Gagliardi Trophy winner.  I realize you are upset about no NCC players making the AA teams, but this argument makes zero sense.  The CCIW coaches who see these players week in and week out voted Westerberg and Williams as the best players in the conference on either side of the ball. Seems to me that it would make perfect sense that they would be voted on to AA teams ahead of anyone else in the CCIW.  So explain to me how this is a farce in any way, shape or form.

[Mugsy]

So you snub the guys that got the job done? And give a spot to a guy from a mediocre 5-5 team.  A slap in the face and a farce. In four years Wiliams had ZERO rushing TD's and only one receiving (and that came as a soph). What a shame.

So I'm assuming from this you're talking about the CCIW Defensive Player of the Year, Erik Westerberg.  You're also talking about Scottie Williams who was the CCIW Offensive Player of the Year and the Gagliardi Trophy winner.  I realize you are upset about no NCC players making the AA teams, but this argument makes zero sense.  The CCIW coaches who see these players week in and week out voted Westerberg and Williams as the best players in the conference on either side of the ball. Seems to me that it would make perfect sense that they would be voted on to AA teams ahead of anyone else in the CCIW.  So explain to me how this is a farce in any way, shape or form.

I couldn't have said it any better.  I completely agree. 

Across the country there are fans who feel a player from their team should have been included over those who were named to the All-American team.  The cry of "SNUB" echos everywhere.   Nothing new here.

The suggestion that an All-American player can not come from "a mediocre 5-5 team" is just pathetic. Guess we need to change the selection criteria from individual accomplishment on the field across the entire season to:

1. All candidates must be from conference championship teams
2. They must have had a stellar game against NCC

Oh... and just because Williams and his offensive teammates where held in check by the 11 players on the NCC defense completely negates his legitimacy as an All-American candidate.  Who cares if he had over 2000 yards rushing during the rest of the season and was a primary reason for a historic run by a team that had never been in the playoffs.  Absolutely reeks of arrogance.  If you can't get it done against the NCC defense, you are not an All-American.

Hmm... wonder if there are personal reasons behind questioning Westerberg's selection?   

[Veinteuno]

Exactly, NCC obviously had the overall better TEAM defense this year.  However, AA teams are based on INDIVIDUAL play and INDIVIDUAL stats.  Westerberg led the CCIW in overall tackles and was voted the Defensive Player of The Year for the conference, as Augie6 mentioned.  Do some of the players on NCC deserve to be on the AA team, probably so.  Yet, Erik Westerberg is certainly deserving of the AA honor, regardless of his team's record, given his stats and individual play.  I understand the frustration, but in reality every year there are many deserving players left off Post season lists (All Conference, All Region, All American, etc.).  There will always be "snubs" in people's eyes. but that does not mean we should diminish or attack someone who made a team ahead of someone, especially when that person is more than deserving of being an AA.  Erik Westerberg had another outstanding year, and I would not be surprised if he is a finalist for the Gagliardi next season.  So let's spend them this time congratulating the CCIW representatives that made the team, instead of attacking them.

[Mugsy]

All American teams were revealed.  I have a really hard time believing there were 8 RB's in the country better than Nick Kukuc. 

I do agree that failure to select Kukuc is a real head-scratcher.  How many RB's average over 7.0 a carry over a 2 year span?

[Pat Coleman]

Everyone thinks they know how to pick an All-American team. I'd be glad to send someone the 929 players considered and let them have a whack at it.

As for Erik Westerberg, for the complaints here, there was also a complaint on Twitter that Westerberg wasn't high enough on the team. Some will ever be satisfied and we will not attempt to satisfy everyone.

[formerd3db]

Everyone thinks they know how to pick an All-American team. I'd be glad to send someone the 929 players considered and let them have a whack at it.

As for Erik Westerberg, for the complaints here, there was also a complaint on Twitter that Westerberg wasn't high enough on the team. Some will ever be satisfied and we will not attempt to satisfy everyone.

Pat, you are absolutely correct in that "life" premis.  You, I or anyone else will never be able to satisfy everyone in anything we do in life. , Just for the record, (and I don't think you were specifically talking about me, but I'll just mention that) while politics indeed occur in some cases as I was discussing in my posted comments about the subject in general, I wasn't implying that you or anyone did in your own situation as I don't believe that would happen i.e. I don't believe you and your colleagues would do that.  So in these type of situations, you do as you have done in this particular example, i.e. you do what you think is best, based on your own reseach/observations, etc., etc., and do the best you can and if others disagree, then so be it.    

[kiko]

So you snub the guys that got the job done? And give a spot to a guy from a mediocre 5-5 team.  A slap in the face and a farce. In four years Wiliams had ZERO rushing TD's and only one receiving (and that came as a soph). What a shame.

So I'm assuming from this you're talking about the CCIW Defensive Player of the Year, Erik Westerberg.  You're also talking about Scottie Williams who was the CCIW Offensive Player of the Year and the Gagliardi Trophy winner.  I realize you are upset about no NCC players making the AA teams, but this argument makes zero sense.  The CCIW coaches who see these players week in and week out voted Westerberg and Williams as the best players in the conference on either side of the ball. Seems to me that it would make perfect sense that they would be voted on to AA teams ahead of anyone else in the CCIW.  So explain to me how this is a farce in any way, shape or form.

I couldn't have said it any better.  I completely agree. 

Across the country there are fans who feel a player from their team should have been included over those who were named to the All-American team.  The cry of "SNUB" echos everywhere.   Nothing new here.

The suggestion that an All-American player can not come from "a mediocre 5-5 team" is just pathetic. Guess we need to change the selection criteria from individual accomplishment on the field across the entire season to:

1. All candidates must be from conference championship teams
2. They must have had a stellar game against NCC

Oh... and just because Williams and his offensive teammates where held in check by the 11 players on the NCC defense completely negates his legitimacy as an All-American candidate.  Who cares if he had over 2000 yards rushing during the rest of the season and was a primary reason for a historic run by a team that had never been in the playoffs.  Absolutely reeks of arrogance.  If you can't get it done against the NCC defense, you are not an All-American.

Hmm... wonder if there are personal reasons behind questioning Westerberg's selection?   

The red part above is more than a little disingenuous.  I have not heard any suggestion that Scottie Williams didn't deserve to receive AA recognition.  What I read is surprise/disappointment/anger (choose your word) that a defense capable of keeping such a talented runner in check did not merit any AA selections.  There's certainly room for opinion on both sides of that question.  But turning that question into a strawman that suggests bias against Scottie Williams is a really weak argument.

[NCF]

So you snub the guys that got the job done? And give a spot to a guy from a mediocre 5-5 team.  A slap in the face and a farce. In four years Wiliams had ZERO rushing TD's and only one receiving (and that came as a soph). What a shame.

So I'm assuming from this you're talking about the CCIW Defensive Player of the Year, Erik Westerberg.  You're also talking about Scottie Williams who was the CCIW Offensive Player of the Year and the Gagliardi Trophy winner.  I realize you are upset about no NCC players making the AA teams, but this argument makes zero sense.  The CCIW coaches who see these players week in and week out voted Westerberg and Williams as the best players in the conference on either side of the ball. Seems to me that it would make perfect sense that they would be voted on to AA teams ahead of anyone else in the CCIW.  So explain to me how this is a farce in any way, shape or form.

I couldn't have said it any better.  I completely agree. 

Across the country there are fans who feel a player from their team should have been included over those who were named to the All-American team.  The cry of "SNUB" echos everywhere.   Nothing new here.

The suggestion that an All-American player can not come from "a mediocre 5-5 team" is just pathetic. Guess we need to change the selection criteria from individual accomplishment on the field across the entire season to:

1. All candidates must be from conference championship teams
2. They must have had a stellar game against NCC

Oh... and just because Williams and his offensive teammates where held in check by the 11 players on the NCC defense completely negates his legitimacy as an All-American candidate.  Who cares if he had over 2000 yards rushing during the rest of the season and was a primary reason for a historic run by a team that had never been in the playoffs.  Absolutely reeks of arrogance.  If you can't get it done against the NCC defense, you are not an All-American.

Hmm... wonder if there are personal reasons behind questioning Westerberg's selection?   

The red part above is more than a little disingenuous.  I have not heard any suggestion that Scottie Williams didn't deserve to receive AA recognition.  What I read is surprise/disappointment/anger (choose your word) that a defense capable of keeping such a talented runner in check did not merit any AA selections.  There's certainly room for opinion on both sides of that question.  But turning that question into a strawman that suggests bias against Scottie Williams is a really weak argument.

Thanks because I really have no issue with Williams (he earned his awards), just pointing out the fact that NC held him in check(for his entire career), won their 7th straight title and third straight play-off appearance and not one defensive player gets even an honorable mention? IMHO just seems wrong.

[Augie6]

So you snub the guys that got the job done? And give a spot to a guy from a mediocre 5-5 team.  A slap in the face and a farce. In four years Wiliams had ZERO rushing TD's and only one receiving (and that came as a soph). What a shame.

So I'm assuming from this you're talking about the CCIW Defensive Player of the Year, Erik Westerberg.  You're also talking about Scottie Williams who was the CCIW Offensive Player of the Year and the Gagliardi Trophy winner.  I realize you are upset about no NCC players making the AA teams, but this argument makes zero sense.  The CCIW coaches who see these players week in and week out voted Westerberg and Williams as the best players in the conference on either side of the ball. Seems to me that it would make perfect sense that they would be voted on to AA teams ahead of anyone else in the CCIW.  So explain to me how this is a farce in any way, shape or form.

I couldn't have said it any better.  I completely agree. 

Across the country there are fans who feel a player from their team should have been included over those who were named to the All-American team.  The cry of "SNUB" echos everywhere.   Nothing new here.

The suggestion that an All-American player can not come from "a mediocre 5-5 team" is just pathetic. Guess we need to change the selection criteria from individual accomplishment on the field across the entire season to:

1. All candidates must be from conference championship teams
2. They must have had a stellar game against NCC

Oh... and just because Williams and his offensive teammates where held in check by the 11 players on the NCC defense completely negates his legitimacy as an All-American candidate.  Who cares if he had over 2000 yards rushing during the rest of the season and was a primary reason for a historic run by a team that had never been in the playoffs.  Absolutely reeks of arrogance.  If you can't get it done against the NCC defense, you are not an All-American.

Hmm... wonder if there are personal reasons behind questioning Westerberg's selection?   

The red part above is more than a little disingenuous.  I have not heard any suggestion that Scottie Williams didn't deserve to receive AA recognition.  What I read is surprise/disappointment/anger (choose your word) that a defense capable of keeping such a talented runner in check did not merit any AA selections.  There's certainly room for opinion on both sides of that question.  But turning that question into a strawman that suggests bias against Scottie Williams is a really weak argument.

Thanks because I really have no issue with Williams (he earned his awards), just pointing out the fact that NC held him in check(for his entire career), won their 7th straight title and third straight play-off appearance and not one defensive player gets even an honorable mention? IMHO just seems wrong.

newcardfan,

That's certainly not the point you were trying to make in your initial post.  So given your remarks about Williams (where you don't address the comment about Westerberg), I'll assume that he's the one you really have the problem with.  So, again, I'll ask, how is Westerberg's selection a farce?  He was the CCIW Defensive Player of the Year as voted by the coaches in the league.  Did Augie have a better defense than NCC?  Clearly not.  But AA selections are not based on team results.  They are an individual award.  So if you have a problem with Westerberg being selected over someone from NCC, then I guess you know more than the coaches in the CCIW about who was the best defensive performer in the conference this season. 

I get that you're upset about no one from NCC making an AA team.  That's fine and I can even understand that.  But to come on a board like this and take shots at players who are clearly deserving of the award is completely classless in my opinion. 

[lakeshore]

Interested to hear NCC posters thoughts on the comparisons between Linfield's Mickey Inns and Wheaton's Jordan Roberts. Roberts clearly had AA numbers in '12....