FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mugsy]

I think you can also argue against your premise that Wheaton's students and football players need to have the monetary resources to afford an expensive school.  A school with an endowment of 350 million probably has the ability to provide substantial financial aid for students and families who need/deserve it.  This is backed up by the fact that Wheaton states that their average need-based grant (not including loan) is around $28,000.  If that's the average, I would imagine this means that the school has the resources to provide 40-50k per year for students who need it.

Sources:  http://www.ctcl.org/colleges/wheaton
                http://wheatoncollege.edu/admission/tuition-fees/

On a side note, the second link you provided is associated with the wrong Wheaton College.  There is a Wheaton College in Massachusetts as well.   

[Mugsy]

Lets,

Not to dispute the vast majority of the information or contention(s) contained within your post, but more so to play devil's (I know thats a bad word at Wheaton  ) advocate, might not "ABLE" be the operative word in your post? You say Carthage was able to provide you with more aid than Wheaton did. With both a much larger endowment, and likely a larger recruiting budget given the national scope of their various team rosters, could it have been that Wheaton was able to give you more money, but for some reason chose not to?

Again you are making a huge assumption.  Do you know for a fact that Wheaton has a larger recruiting budget?

[TitanPride]

I think you can also argue against your premise that Wheaton's students and football players need to have the monetary resources to afford an expensive school.  A school with an endowment of 350 million probably has the ability to provide substantial financial aid for students and families who need/deserve it.  This is backed up by the fact that Wheaton states that their average need-based grant (not including loan) is around $28,000.  If that's the average, I would imagine this means that the school has the resources to provide 40-50k per year for students who need it.

Sources:  http://www.ctcl.org/colleges/wheaton
                http://wheatoncollege.edu/admission/tuition-fees/

On a side note, the second link you provided is associated with the wrong Wheaton College.  There is a Wheaton College in Massachusetts as well.   

I'm sorry.  While I do know that there are two Wheatons, I completely missed the fact that I was linking the wrong one's average grant information.  That's bad on my part!

I think this link shows that Wheaton (IL)'s average need-based grant is around $19,000, which seems much more in line with other private liberal arts schools in the Midwest. 

Source:  http://www.wheaton.edu/Academics/Services/Registrar/~/media/Files/Academics/Academic-Services/Office-of-the-Registrar/FAQs/CDS.pdf

[Langhorst_Ghost]

Common misunderstanding:  Bigger endowment != more financial aid for individual student

I've learned over the years that Wheaton's financial aid offering is typically less than other CCIW schools.  I don't know why, but I've heard it repeated by parents who were considering sending their kids to Wheaton.

That said I believe alumni giving has resulted in Wheaton's overall tuition coming in lower than most CCIW schools.  The NCC quarterly alumni magazine publishes the core financial details for each CCIW school (endownment, tuition cost, etc...).  Off the top of my head I can't remember where Wheaton ranked in 2012 in cost of tuition, but I'm confident in was towards the bottom of the list.

Mugsy - your point is absolutely accurate.  Wheaton's typical aid packages (both merit scholarships and need-based institutional grants), on balance, are traditionally lower (and often times significantly) than rival schools in the conference (Elmhurst included) - have been for many, many years.  Not passing judgement on the practice - just simply the way they do business...and it seems to be a strong business model (as Wheaton is in an extremely financially stable position compared to most small private institutions).

To back up your point - College budgets, endowment levels, and discount rates can be complex issues with many different layers, and simply assuming that more money in the piggy bank means more money in the aid packages for football players is not a practical linear correlation.  Tuition at WC is lower at its sticker value than many other CCIW schools, but higher discount rates at their conference rivals lower the out of pocket expenses (on average) below that of the Thunder's.

Wheaton is certainly unique and special in its own way, and we can debate the ins and outs of what differentiates the College from other CCIW schools - from its ranking to its faith affiliation - but as far as the money goes, broadly speaking, student athletes are not enrolling at Wheaton from around the country because of a discounted price tag...far from it.

[kiko]

Common misunderstanding:  Bigger endowment != more financial aid for individual student

I've learned over the years that Wheaton's financial aid offering is typically less than other CCIW schools.  I don't know why, but I've heard it repeated by parents who were considering sending their kids to Wheaton.

That said I believe alumni giving has resulted in Wheaton's overall tuition coming in lower than most CCIW schools.  The NCC quarterly alumni magazine publishes the core financial details for each CCIW school (endownment, tuition cost, etc...).  Off the top of my head I can't remember where Wheaton ranked in 2012 in cost of tuition, but I'm confident in was towards the bottom of the list.

This is what you were referring to:

CCIW Endowments as of June 2012 ($MM):

Wheaton - $325.0
Illinois Wesleyan - $191.9
Augustana - $116.0
Millikin - $105.5
North Central - $91.3
Elmhurst - $85.2
North Park - $64.8
Carthage - $54.8
---
Average - $129.3


Comparative Costs, 2012-2013:

Illinois Wesleyan - $46,822
Augustana - $43,398
Carthage - $42,000
Elmhurst - $40,288
North Central - $39,954
Wheaton - $38,680
Millikin - $37,914
North Park - $30,130
---
Average - $39,898

[kiko]

New--

Why do you think Wheaton's roster is always filled with players from around the country?
Not sure what others think but my personal opinion is that, in addition to being academically strong to start with, its Wheaton's religious philosophy that brings in recruits. I'm not sure how many other schools there are of the same religious persuasion around the country, but I'm guessing not a great number. Accordingly, its always been my opinion that WC doesn't really have to do that much recruiting due to the fact I believe many kids actually recruit themselves to Wheaton rather than the usual action of the school going out and recruiting the student-athlete. Look at how many incoming kids have gone to Christian high schools. Its the same with all sports at WC, not just football. Wheaton rarely competes for the same kids with other conference schools except, in some cases, with North Park. Their primary competition for recruits is usually with other Christian colleges across the country rather than with other CCIW schools.

Completely and utterly inaccurate to paint picture that "Wheaton doesn't really have to do that much recruiting..."  You are making some HUGE assumptions without knowing what the coaching staff does to recruit or what criteria is necessary.  To even consider that "kids recruit themselves to Wheaton" is an insult to the diligent, exhaustive efforts by the entire Wheaton staff.

The biggest assumption you are making is that there is a huge number of potential football players who:

• Have achieved academic excellence (top 5-10% in their class, at least a 30 on ACT, etc...) AND
• Have the monetary resources to afford an expensive liberal arts education AND
• Possess the level of athletic ability and football skill to compete at the highest levels in D3 AND
• Do not have aspirations (or unrealistic view of their ability) to compete at higher levels of NCAA AND
• Profess faith as a follower of Jesus Christ and are committed to living in a way that reflects that faith

I'm sure I'm missing additional criteria, as I type quickly at lunch. 

No doubt all CCIW football programs face the challenges represented by #1 through #4.  I believe ALL CCIW football programs need to expend a huge effort year in and year out to find the recruits that will allow them to compete for the CCIW crown, and to aspire to greater success in D3.  But #5 whittles that pot of players down significantly, despite the fact there may be a smaller number of "Christian" liberal arts schools. 

Another huge factor is expenses and budget.  What is more expensive, to find a large percentage of recruits from reasonably close geographical proximity to the school or to fan out across the US?  Sure Wheaton has a large endowment, but if you think that means the Wheaton sports programs have significant more resources & budget to work with, you are kidding yourself.  Wheaton does not have large line items in the budget to fly all over the US to scout for prospective players.

I can assure you that it is exceptionally difficult to find 25-30 players each year that fit this criteria.

I'd argue the fact Wheaton has to go all over the US to find their 25-30 recruits each year should point out the fact Wheaton is pulling from a smaller bucket of possible recruits.  Without the assistance from Alumni who know the school & know the type of person and player Wheaton is looking for, identifying potential recruits to compete for CCIW crowns would be tenuous.

Don't get me wrong, you are free to hold your own opinion.  But in this case you are making huge assumptions that in the end are not true.

I will add that it seems this topic comes up every year, along with the discussion on why it has been so hard for NPU to build a quality program.  [Note: I am not requesting for Greg to pull out his dissertation on the challenges NPU faces, even though I'm sure he has this saved out on the PC in several locations so that he doesn't need to type it up each time.  ]

I will quibble with only one piece of this (the red part).  Wheaton's recruiting footprint is clearly far more national in scope than that of any other conference school.  The profile of who would be a fit certainly narrows the potential universe of recruits, but that is counterbalanced by the significantly larger geographic area that Wheaton draws from.  I don't think the bucket of potential players Wheaton is recruiting from is smaller at all.

Now, if you want to argue that it is harder for Wheaton to surface these potential recruits than it is for, say Elmhurst to come up with its short list (which seems to be what you are saying with the comment that alumni play a big role in identifying potential students), that seems reasonable.  But that's a different argument.  Wheaton doesn't necessarily have fewer needles, just a bigger haystack in which to search.

[kiko]

The City of Wheaton hasn't been dry since the 1980s, and now even hosts an annual Ale Fest!   

Next we'll learn that there is a dance floor at the Ale Fest. 

[robertgoulet]

The City of Wheaton hasn't been dry since the 1980s, and now even hosts an annual Ale Fest!   

Next we'll learn that there is a dance floor at the Ale Fest. 

Hey, sometimes you gotta cut loose.

[Titan Q]

Titans play Finland National Team Sunday at 8:00am (Central)...

http://www.iwusports.com/news/2013/5/30/FB_0530134909.aspx

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/football/titans-football-eager-to-play-game-in-finland/article_f7f8a944-c676-11e2-9a41-001a4bcf887a.html?comment_form=true

https://twitter.com/oQuarterback/status/340546017126658048/photo/1

[Titan Q]

Live stats for the IWU game vs Finland National Team...

http://www.sajl-tilastot.net/mj/xlive.htm


IWU QB Rob Gallik is still not cleared to play.  Junior-to-be Tyrell Bolden, a dual threat QB, will start for the Titans.

The Titans are also without 2012 defensive MVP Connor Klein.

[Titan Q]

Final from Helsinki...

Illinois Wesleyan 33
Finland National 0


* T.J. Stinde (RB): 116 yards rushing (8 carries)/1TD, 39 yards receiving (1 catch)/1TD

* Tyrell Bolden (QB): 8-18 passing/133 yards/1 TD

* Total offense: IWU 392 yards, Finland 38

* 1st downs: IWU 21, Finland 4

* IWU tackles: Chris Simms 6, Kyle Pfister 4


T.J. Stinde missed IWU's final 4 games in 2012 due to injury...nice to see him back.

If IWU can get QB Rob Gallik healthy and back to pre-injury 2012 form, get MLB Connor Klein back from injury, and keep T.J. Stinde healthy, the Titans will have a chance to be a very good team in 2013.  IWU returns a lot of talent on both sides of the ball.

[D3MAFAN]

Final from Helsinki...

Illinois Wesleyan 33
Finland National 0


* T.J. Stinde (RB): 116 yards rushing (8 carries)/1TD, 39 yards receiving (1 catch)/1TD

* Tyrell Bolden (QB): 8-18 passing/133 yards/1 TD

* Total offense: IWU 392 yards, Finland 38

* 1st downs: IWU 21, Finland 4

* IWU tackles: Chris Simms 6, Kyle Pfister 4


T.J. Stinde missed IWU's final 4 games in 2012 due to injury...nice to see him back.

If IWU can get QB Rob Gallik healthy and back to pre-injury 2012 form, get MLB Connor Klein back from injury, and keep T.J. Stinde healthy, the Titans will have a chance to be a very good team in 2013.  IWU returns a lot of talent on both sides of the ball.

That is good to hear. IWU should shake up some things in that tough confernece.

[bluejay4ever]

Bluejays win today 96-0 in Italy.....not joking

[NCF]

Bluejays win today 96-0 in Italy.....not joking

Has any American college team that plays one of these European "National" teams ever lost. Those teams are pretty awful and the real point of the trip is to get the extra padded practices and the opportunity to go to Europe (if you can afford it).

[D3MAFAN]

Bluejays win today 96-0 in Italy.....not joking

WOW!