FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[NCF]

In conference play.  I agree that you need to show that you are capable of winning against your peers in conference. My point was that it is hard to climb the ladder into the elite (top 3) of the conference. THEN be able to stay in that top 3 slot consistently.

Of course it is, JT didn't come into North Central and win championships. He had to build the foundation and turn the mentality around. But, if you're not winning ANY games in a season it becomes twice as hard to get players to commit to the rigors of football and school, knowing you will have a tough time getting any wins each season. Once you can get some yearly victories you build to conference victories, then championships.  It all depends on what your goals are for a program. Once you get in the top three,to stay there a team needs to be able to reload, not constantly rebuild. That takes time. Even with all that, there will be off years along the way.

[Gregory Sager]

I noticed the change in quality vs. quantity with Elmhurst during the Journell era.  He focused more on recruiting quality players both on the field and in the classroom.  The rest of the dominoes began to fall into place for EC once this point of emphasis changed.

It's not a matter of "quality vs. quantity". You need both. That's what makes turning around a football program so difficult; it takes so many good recruits every year to accomplish a winning season, because: a) football is a high-attrition sport; and b) the positional requirements are so much bigger than they are for any other collegiate sport (24 starters/specialists, as compared to nine for baseball, 11 for soccer, five for basketball, etc.).

I've made this analogy in this room before, but rebuilding a basketball program is like doing a U-turn in a pickup truck, while rebuilding a football program is like doing a U-turn in a semi tractor-trailer.

In conference play.  I agree that you need to show that you are capable of winning against your peers in conference. My point was that it is hard to climb the ladder into the elite (top 3) of the conference. THEN be able to stay in that top 3 slot consistently.

Of course it is, JT didn't come into North Central and win championships. He had to build the foundation and turn the mentality around. But, if you're not winning ANY games in a season it becomes twice as hard to get players to commit to the rigors of football and school, knowing you will have a tough time getting any wins each season. Once you can get some yearly victories you build to conference victories, then championships.  It all depends on what your goals are for a program. Once you get in the top three,to stay there a team needs to be able to reload, not constantly rebuild. That takes time. Even with all that, there will be off years along the way.

NCF is right. It does no good to compare where NPU is right now to where Elmhurst was when it was finishing 6-4 every year. Those two situations are apples and oranges. Elmhurst was a mediocrity looking to build to top-echelon status; North Park is a doormat looking to build to mediocrity status. Those are two very different aspirations, and they require two very different approaches in terms of recruiting -- not that recruiting for Elmhurst and recruiting for NPU are inherently comparable, anyway.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

In conference play.  I agree that you need to show that you are capable of winning against your peers in conference. My point was that it is hard to climb the ladder into the elite (top 3) of the conference. THEN be able to stay in that top 3 slot consistently.

Of course it is, JT didn't come into North Central and win championships. He had to build the foundation and turn the mentality around. But, if you're not winning ANY games in a season it becomes twice as hard to get players to commit to the rigors of football and school, knowing you will have a tough time getting any wins each season. Once you can get some yearly victories you build to conference victories, then championships.  It all depends on what your goals are for a program. Once you get in the top three,to stay there a team needs to be able to reload, not constantly rebuild. That takes time. Even with all that, there will be off years along the way.

I agree 100%  Franklin is a great example

[nccfac]

Franklin is a good example. Franklin has moved to a different level from those in their conference to a national power. NCC started to get better when the players that came in were also better students. JT knew that good players are students that are dedicated and committed to all they do, not just football. Most of the stars on his team have also been outstanding students, winning numerous academic awards. Including student-athletes that have won graduate scholarships from the NCAA. I don't know if the same is true at Franklin but I wouldn't be surprised.

[79jaybird]

Good luck to all CCIW teams.  For Elmhurst, I am especially hoping to see the Jays play 4 quarters of solid, mistake free (or limited) football.  I think it is imperative Elmhurst gets consistent heading into the CCIW slate with the 500 lb gorilla looming in week 1. 

[matblake]

I'm interested in how Augie handles Loras.  Could provide a lot of perspective in how the Elmhurst/Augie matchup might go. Maybe not though since Loras was the Blue Jays first game and the largest leap of improvement is often stated to be between the first and second games.

[matblake]

I wish Wheaton would follow suit with North Central and do a tour of UW schools.  Big improvement in the quality of non-conference competition for the Thunder next year.  Coe and UW-Eau Claire replace Luther and Benedictine.  And a yet to be determined MIAA school. 

[79jaybird]

Matt I too am interested in the Augie/EC matchup.  In year's past I would say Augie in Rock Island is almost a guaranteed W.  However, This is a different Augie team and Elmhurst has been much improved looking for a 3 game winning streak.  I am waiting to see how Elmhurst plays vs. UC the bye week and then NC. 

[NCF]

Matt I too am interested in the Augie/EC matchup.  In year's past I would say Augie in Rock Island is almost a guaranteed W.  However, This is a different Augie team and Elmhurst has been much improved looking for a 3 game winning streak.  I am waiting to see how Elmhurst plays vs. UC the bye week and then NC.

I think that Elmhurst wins that game even in Rock Island.

[NewVikesFan]

I think you are writing off Augie too soon.  They played EC very close at Elmhurst last year and should be an improved team.  The game against Loras will tell us whether the Central game was just an off day.  I think that is the case even with our young QB.

[Mugsy]

I think you are writing off Augie too soon.  They played EC very close at Elmhurst last year and should be an improved team.  The game against Loras will tell us whether the Central game was just an off day.  I think that is the case even with our young QB.

Hey Ben, active players should not be posting on these boards. 

[ExTartanPlayer]

I think you are writing off Augie too soon.  They played EC very close at Elmhurst last year and should be an improved team.  The game against Loras will tell us whether the Central game was just an off day.  I think that is the case even with our young QB.

Hey Ben, active players should not be posting on these boards. 

I think it's actually OKAY for current players to post a little if the right tone is kept (I posted a FEW times as an active player) and, more importantly, the player is clear about his identity instead of pretending to be a fan or disinterested observer.  I know that most coaches would say no, but I think levelheaded kids can handle it.  My handle when I posted was TartanPlayer, and I was very clear about my identity.  The "Ex" was added after my last game

I also am amazed when people register for an account using an email address that has their name in it, and it doesn't occur to them that their identity is pretty easy to figure out.  I suppose it could be one of his parents.

[Upstate]

Who still uses AOL?

That has to be a parent!

[Augie6]

I think you are writing off Augie too soon.  They played EC very close at Elmhurst last year and should be an improved team.  The game against Loras will tell us whether the Central game was just an off day.  I think that is the case even with our young QB.

The only way the Loras game tells us anything about Augie, is if it's close.  If that's the case, it means Augie will probably struggle once it gets into the CCIW slate.  If they win big (as they should), it means they beat a very poor team that has won a combined 3 games over the past two full seasons.  It says nothing about how they will fare in the CCIW.

Based on watching some of last weeks game vs Central online, it looks like it could be another long season in Rock Island.  Not buying the off-day comment.  There have been too many of last week's type of performance over the past few seasons to classify it as an "off-day".  For that matter, why would you expect posters not to write off Augie this season based on last week's performance?  The fact that they played EC close last season is completely irrelevant to what they will do this season.  If my memory serves me correctly, they also played Central close last season, losing 17-10 on the road to a Central team that was mediocre at best (finished 5-5).  Then Central comes into Augie against what you are suggesting should be an improved team this season and spanks you guys in the new stadium.  Doesn't sound like much an improvement to me and suggests the exact opposite.  If you are a player, I would recommend that you and your teammates focus on getting better in practice and performing at a higher level in the games as opposed to worrying about what people are saying on this board.  If you do that, the posters on this board will recognize it and say as much. 

[NewVikesFan]

Parent.  Too much work to set up multiple accounts... Nothing to hide.  Only positive thoughts about CCIW football from me.  Just more positive thoughts about Augie!