FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

IWU article...

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/football/iwu-football-notes-worley-turning-into-sack-master/article_82c861bc-2bb8-11e3-a322-0019bb2963f4.html

Senior halfback T.J. Stinde will not play Saturday because of a one-game suspension for "breaking team rules," according to Eash.

"That's all I want to say about it," said the IWU coach, who added Stinde is allowed to practice with the team this week.

Stinde, a Lexington High School graduate who has split duties with Devonte Jones the past two games, gained 129 yards on 17 carries against Hope. Jones figures to be backed up by sophomore Anfernee Roberts against Millikin.

Boys will be boys. 
IWU is fortunate that the concerned misadventure did not occur during the weeks of either 10/21 or 10/28, prior to the Wheaton and North Central games.
I sense they will do just fine against Millikin without Mr. Stinde's participation.

[AndOne]

EC vs. IWU a bit down the road.  Need to watch both teams more.  IWU likely over MU this week, by 2-3 TDs, then a big win at Homecoming over NPU, probably by more than 3 TDs, then the long trip to Kenosha, followed by the REALLY REALLY big games -- WC and NCC at home @ Tucci Stadium @ Wilder Field, IWU.  EC - IWU is so so far away, can't really say what to expect.  IWU has a lot of improvement to go, potential to develop to win the CCIW Crown.  So far WC and NCC have looked overall sharper.  I have no doubt the Titans will contend, play WC and NCC tough at home this year. 

MU comes first -- one game at a time, and the weather may play a role in the IWU-MU -- MU Homecoming -- matchup this weekend.

IWU70

With all the accolades IWU has received to this point in the season, there is no reason to suspect they they won't indeed "contend" and play tough against both WC and NCC.
In fact the Weenies will actually have every advantage in playing at Anaheim Stadium of Los Angeles, er at Tucci Stadium at Wilder Field. Or is it Wilder Field at Tucci Stadium?   

[iwu70]

AndOne, we thought so last year too, but after Gallik went down, our Titans lost 4 in a row and finished 3-4 in the CCIW, so let's take it all game by game.  I think the Titans are stronger, better this year, but nothing is really changed, proved much until we get to WC and NCC.  Gotta win the other three first -- MU, NPU and CC away.  Not that easy.  Would be nice to meet WC at 6-0. 

Yes, it's Tucci Stadium at Wilder Field. New  turf, upgrades provided by Mssr. Tucci recently.  He also gave scholarship money and an endowed professorship.  Wilder Field has been the name from the get go -- I think President Wilder, or a donor named Wilder, helped buy the land, so this is the really old old name that most of us would not wish to see lost or given up, even with the more recent, important generosity of Mssr. Tucci.  The new turf, new lighting, improved seating, additional landscaping, and improved PA system are all great now.  A really lovely facility for good D3 football.  We had a beautiful sunny day and a huge Family Weekend crowd of 2600 last weekend for the game with Hope. 

IWU70

[AndOne]

Well, injuries can happen to anyone anytime. Its entirely possible that an important WC, NCC, or IWU player won't be available by the time the teams meet. As the QB is the most important position on a football field, its not surprising IWU's season crashed when Gallik went down last year. Had it been the QB on another contender, I'd be willing to bet the result would have been the same. The assumption behind my thought about the green playing the orange and cardinal tough was that all the major players remain healthy. 

[formerd3db]

Thanks for the follow-up jb, IWU, T, AndOne.  Yes, I guess I "jumped the gun" at bit.  I agree with you that one game at a time is the priority for both schools!  Talk to you all later.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Well, injuries can happen to anyone anytime. Its entirely possible that an important WC, NCC, or IWU player won't be available by the time the teams meet. As the QB is the most important position on a football field, its not surprising IWU's season crashed when Gallik went down last year. Had it been the QB on another contender, I'd be willing to bet the result would have been the same. The assumption behind my thought about the green playing the orange and cardinal tough was that all the major players remain healthy.

I doubt that.  IWU's presumed #2 declined to play last year.  Gallik was replaced by a freshman who showed some flashes of potential, but was clearly not CCIW-ready at the time.  (I'm assuming that both Wheaton and NCC had a replacement available who was much more battle-worthy.)  I sure hope that that former freshman (cannot even recall his name) or someone is more ready next year when Gallik is definitely graduated and gone!

I share your hope that WC, NCC, and IWU can all face off basically intact - beating a wounded foe is better than losing to them, but much less satisfying than defeating them when whole.

[Langhorst_Ghost]

Given this particular thread's on-going conference status in the national picture debate, i found the most recent home page story a particularly relevant read...

Four teams with winning records and four games over .500 is actually a down season compared to what the CCIW, which starts conference play Saturday, normally does non-conference. Going 3-2 vs. the IIAC and 3-5 vs. the MIAA shows that the CCIW doesn't have its normal overall depth, but North Central went 3-0 by itself against WIAC teams. While the Cardinals chose to schedule up, Wheaton – perhaps tired of going 8-2 and missing the postseason – beat Benedictine, Albion and Luther by a combined 152-39 without going more than 10 miles from campus. Elmhurst, after an offseason of losses, is 1-2 and struggling as expected. Illinois Wesleyan's 14-7 home win against Hope either says a lot about what the 3-1 Flying Dutchmen have this season, or it says the CCIW isn't matching its usual standard of play

Interesting take from the D3.com team on the non-con scheduling choices from our DuPage County powers.  My big take-away - Wheaton's soft September will hurt them more than help them should they land on the bubble again in 2013 with one conference loss.  With the Cards sharpening their beaks in the WIAC, not only will the Thornies be better prepared both physically and mentally for the CCIW grind, they have earned themselves a mulligan with the selection commitee on their way to the playoffs should they stumble once in conference play.

[USee]

Langhorst,

If Wheaton finishes 9-1 they are a lock to make the playoffs. If they are 8-2, then like last year, they are decidedly on the bubble. Wheaton lost to Albion last year, beat Luther and Olivet badly and none of that affected them against NCC so I don't understand your point. I think Swider would prefer to be 3-0 in non conference and take his chances during the CCIW slate. I am on record as opposing that method but that has been his history. There are pros and cons for scheduling tougher teams. NCC's run through the lower tier WIAC will help the entire CCIW as it will raise the SOS.

The conference's record in preseason games was less than impressive and I think the blurb you quote from ATN is exactly how I feel about the CCIW. The conference is decidedly down this year in terms of depth and we will have to wait til November and December to see if the top teams can compete with other top 10 teams around the country. Overall I feel like the CCIW has slipped a little in quality from top to bottom. It will take a deep run by 1 or 2 teams in December to change that view.

[wally_wabash]

If Wheaton finishes 9-1 they are a lock to make the playoffs. If they are 8-2, then like last year, they are decidedly on the bubble.

Not this year.  There are only 5 Pool C invitations and it's hard to see 2 losses being good enough.  Particularly in the case of Wheaton...and it has nothing to do with who they did or didn't play in the non-league season.  It has everything to do with Wheaton losing twice in league play and almost certainly being stuck in line behind whoever it was that finished as a runner-up.  Plus whoever might be runner-up in the OAC a probable 1-loss runner up out of the NCAC.  At that point Wheaton is probably looking at third in the pecking order in the North region alone...then you factor in 1-loss runners up from the other three regions (particularly the West) and there's just no way Wheaton makes the field with two losses.  Not enough spots.  Wheaton probably doesn't even get mentioned in that scenario. 

1-loss Wheaton is the more interesting case.  Then it all depends on where the RAC puts that Wheaton team in relation to the OAC runner-up and the NCAC runner-up.  With Wabash/Witt on 11/9, Wheaton/NCC on 11/9, and Heidleberg/JCU also on 11/9 it's going to be VERY interesting to see how the RAC orders all of those teams after that weekend.  You would expect an undefeated JCU to top that list, but how much would they get penalized for losing to Mount Union the next weekend?  Going to be some really good stuff coming in weeks 10 and 11. 

[kiko]

Given this particular thread's on-going conference status in the national picture debate, i found the most recent home page story a particularly relevant read...

Four teams with winning records and four games over .500 is actually a down season compared to what the CCIW, which starts conference play Saturday, normally does non-conference. Going 3-2 vs. the IIAC and 3-5 vs. the MIAA shows that the CCIW doesn't have its normal overall depth, but North Central went 3-0 by itself against WIAC teams. While the Cardinals chose to schedule up, Wheaton – perhaps tired of going 8-2 and missing the postseason – beat Benedictine, Albion and Luther by a combined 152-39 without going more than 10 miles from campus. Elmhurst, after an offseason of losses, is 1-2 and struggling as expected. Illinois Wesleyan's 14-7 home win against Hope either says a lot about what the 3-1 Flying Dutchmen have this season, or it says the CCIW isn't matching its usual standard of play

Interesting take from the D3.com team on the non-con scheduling choices from our DuPage County powers.  My big take-away - Wheaton's soft September will hurt them more than help them should they land on the bubble again in 2013 with one conference loss.  With the Cards sharpening their beaks in the WIAC, not only will the Thornies be better prepared both physically and mentally for the CCIW grind, they have earned themselves a mulligan with the selection commitee on their way to the playoffs should they stumble once in conference play.

I will quibble with the article in that I'm not sure I would call the teams North Central played this year 'scheduling up'.  Yes, they were WIAC schools, but they were not the upper echelon of that conference, and certainly weren't playoff-caliber teams.  It's more 'scheduling stronger than in recent years' than anything else.

It's better than what they have been doing in recent years, where there was typically one or two frosted morsels on the calendar (if that's the definition, then I suppose, yes, this was scheduling up...).  And it's about as strong of a schedule as I'd expect them to play given (1) the reticence of some schools to play them, and (2) the playoff structure and selection criteria.  I'd dearly love to see the Cards play the likes of Mount Union or Linfield on a regular basis as a measuring stick for what it takes to be the best, but there is simply no incentive to do so when one out-of-conference purple loss coupled with one in-conference loss can very likely leave you sitting on the sidelines come late November.

Back In The Day the Cardinal basketball team would tour around California in December and play a string of games against D2 opponents as preparation for the conference slate.  That clearly wouldn't make sense today in either sport.

[Langhorst_Ghost]

The conference's record in preseason games was less than impressive and I think the blurb you quote from ATN is exactly how I feel about the CCIW.The conference is decidedly down this year in terms of depth and we will have to wait til November and December to see if the top teams can compete with other top 10 teams around the country. Overall I feel like the CCIW has slipped a little in quality from top to bottom. It will take a deep run by 1 or 2 teams in December to change that view.

Usee - i definitely agree with your assessment on conference depth here, and we are just in early October, so all we really have to work with right now are some uninspiring non-con results and conjecture.  Declining overall conference depth (whether that is a real phenomenon or a preemptive mis-diagnosis) is a factor in that gray space where at-large bid conversations are had.  Can i say with confidence that a 1 loss team in what is viewed outside of the 60-zip code radius as a conference in a down depth year is a lock to earn an at-large?  I'm not willing to go there. 

As all CCIW'ers have come to know, of the 7 at-large spots (pool C bids), SOS and Regional Rankings are the two driving forces in swaying the selection.  This system is often refereed to as the "One-Loss Lottery" with more 9-1 squads than spaces available.  Given the shifting landscape of our conference, penciling in our second best into the bracket is (at least in my mind), no longer a given for a team with a less than impressive September slate.

In a more straight-forward presentation of my point: If Wheaton were to lose the Bell battle, but run the the table otherwise, and IWU should stumble twice (to NCC and of course to Wheaton), where is Wheaton's signature win? 

Now, that being said - i do believe that the Wheaties have a legit shot at 10-0 with the offensive firepower they have - so the conversation may be a mute point by November.  But, given the difference in non-con quality, i'm just not so sure the Thunder will have earned that possible Pool C space should NCC take the crown again.

[Pat Coleman]

This system is often refereed to as the "One-Loss Lottery" with more 9-1 squads than spaces available.

I have never heard this and Google has only heard of it once in 2000 and once in 2007:
[url="https://www.google.com/search?q="One-Loss+Lottery"&oq="One-Loss+Lottery""]https://www.google.com/search?q="One-Loss+Lottery"&oq="One-Loss+Lottery"[/url]

But I like the name and perhaps we should claim it.

[USee]

If Wheaton finishes 9-1 they are a lock to make the playoffs. If they are 8-2, then like last year, they are decidedly on the bubble.

Not this year.  There are only 5 Pool C invitations and it's hard to see 2 losses being good enough.  Particularly in the case of Wheaton...and it has nothing to do with who they did or didn't play in the non-league season.  It has everything to do with Wheaton losing twice in league play and almost certainly being stuck in line behind whoever it was that finished as a runner-up.  Plus whoever might be runner-up in the OAC a probable 1-loss runner up out of the NCAC.  At that point Wheaton is probably looking at third in the pecking order in the North region alone...then you factor in 1-loss runners up from the other three regions (particularly the West) and there's just no way Wheaton makes the field with two losses.  Not enough spots.  Wheaton probably doesn't even get mentioned in that scenario. 

1-loss Wheaton is the more interesting case.  Then it all depends on where the RAC puts that Wheaton team in relation to the OAC runner-up and the NCAC runner-up.  With Wabash/Witt on 11/9, Wheaton/NCC on 11/9, and Heidleberg/JCU also on 11/9 it's going to be VERY interesting to see how the RAC orders all of those teams after that weekend.  You would expect an undefeated JCU to top that list, but how much would they get penalized for losing to Mount Union the next weekend?  Going to be some really good stuff coming in weeks 10 and 11.

Good points Wally. I had fortgotten (in denial) about the reduced Pool C spots this year. I completely agree 8-2 is a non-starter for any team making the field. However, at 9-1, I can't imagine the CCIW runner up doesn't get in. You paint the picture where that could happen, but I don't think it will. It really depends on how many 1 loss runner ups there are and, as you point out, Wheaton's  scheduling may bite them if that happens.

I would like it (painful as it would be) if scheduling were rewarded and I can envision a time where it is more important for Wheaton to schedule mid-upper tier WIAC schools than what they have been doing. Up to now, Swider has banked on the fact that if he goes 9-1 his team is going to playoffs. That is changing with the redistribution of Pool C bids. I think that is a good thing.

[Langhorst_Ghost]

This system is often refereed to as the "One-Loss Lottery" with more 9-1 squads than spaces available.

I have never heard this and Google has only heard of it once in 2000 and once in 2007:
[url="https://www.google.com/search?q="One-Loss+Lottery"&oq="One-Loss+Lottery""]https://www.google.com/search?q="One-Loss+Lottery"&oq="One-Loss+Lottery"[/url]

But I like the name and perhaps we should claim it.

Pat - You are more than welcome to it, but it's actually already yours  - first paragraph...http://d3football.com/playoffs/2012/bracket-released

[NCF]

Given this particular thread's on-going conference status in the national picture debate, i found the most recent home page story a particularly relevant read...

Four teams with winning records and four games over .500 is actually a down season compared to what the CCIW, which starts conference play Saturday, normally does non-conference. Going 3-2 vs. the IIAC and 3-5 vs. the MIAA shows that the CCIW doesn't have its normal overall depth, but North Central went 3-0 by itself against WIAC teams. While the Cardinals chose to schedule up, Wheaton – perhaps tired of going 8-2 and missing the postseason – beat Benedictine, Albion and Luther by a combined 152-39 without going more than 10 miles from campus. Elmhurst, after an offseason of losses, is 1-2 and struggling as expected. Illinois Wesleyan's 14-7 home win against Hope either says a lot about what the 3-1 Flying Dutchmen have this season, or it says the CCIW isn't matching its usual standard of play

Interesting take from the D3.com team on the non-con scheduling choices from our DuPage County powers.  My big take-away - Wheaton's soft September will hurt them more than help them should they land on the bubble again in 2013 with one conference loss.  With the Cards sharpening their beaks in the WIAC, not only will the Thornies be better prepared both physically and mentally for the CCIW grind, they have earned themselves a mulligan with the selection commitee on their way to the playoffs should they stumble once in conference play.

I will quibble with the article in that I'm not sure I would call the teams North Central played this year 'scheduling up'.  Yes, they were WIAC schools, but they were not the upper echelon of that conference, and certainly weren't playoff-caliber teams.  It's more 'scheduling stronger than in recent years' than anything else.

It's better than what they have been doing in recent years, where there was typically one or two frosted morsels on the calendar (if that's the definition, then I suppose, yes, this was scheduling up...).  And it's about as strong of a schedule as I'd expect them to play given (1) the reticence of some schools to play them, and (2) the playoff structure and selection criteria.  I'd dearly love to see the Cards play the likes of Mount Union or Linfield on a regular basis as a measuring stick for what it takes to be the best, but there is simply no incentive to do so when one out-of-conference purple loss coupled with one in-conference loss can very likely leave you sitting on the sidelines come late November.

Back In The Day the Cardinal basketball team would tour around California in December and play a string of games against D2 opponents as preparation for the conference slate.  That clearly wouldn't make sense today in either sport.

If I recall correctly, we did discuss the weakness of the CCIW in general early in the season and I completely agree on the "playing up" of North Central. How about a Platteville, Osh, UWW, Franklin, or Mt. Union on the early season slate? Just one of them each season would be a nice change. Make it the third non-conference game. Linfield would cost too much. The Redlands trip cost quite a bit and had to be eliminated this year.