FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

TitanQ, is it common in the CCIW for the teams to come off the sidelines and onto the field at the conclusion of the coin toss?

I'm just curious.

I don't think so, but others will have to confirm.

[NCF]

TitanQ, is it common in the CCIW for the teams to come off the sidelines and onto the field at the conclusion of the coin toss?

I'm just curious.

I don't think so, but others will have to confirm.

the captains usually run back to the sidelines and meet their teams on the field, but not mid-field.

[NCF]

I was standing right on the sidelines where the NC team comes out of the locker rooms, and I can assure you that the NCC team rushed the center of the field first, and the IWU team, then waiting in their proper place on the sideline, came out to the center of the field second.  The description you have posted, AndOne, is clearly in error.

IWU70

This exact same scenario played out in 2011. These two teams just hate each other.

[wally_wabash]

I was standing right on the sidelines where the NC team comes out of the locker rooms, and I can assure you that the NCC team rushed the center of the field first, and the IWU team, then waiting in their proper place on the sideline, came out to the center of the field second.  The description you have posted, AndOne, is clearly in error.

IWU70

This exact same scenario played out in 2011. These two teams just hate each other.

If IWU defended their goal line with as much intensity as they defended that big gray W at midfield before the game, they probably don't get 46 hung on them and the coach doesn't say unfortunate things to the media.

[AndOne]

Here is video of the pregame situation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPmNOH5KFSE&feature=youtube_gdata&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I was standing right on the sidelines where the NC team comes out of the locker rooms, and I can assure you that the NCC team rushed the center of the field first, and the IWU team, then waiting in their proper place on the sideline, came out to the center of the field second.  The description you have posted, AndOne, is clearly in error.

IWU70

IWU70,

I understand your perspective.
Aside from your insistence on the extra long IWU stadium name and your constant functioning as the IWU PR Dept about non sports related subjects, I have always admired your knowledge, respected your IWU pride and opinions, and been interested in the info you provide. Most importantly, I have always felt we have a good friendly competitive relationship.
I took a look at the video Titan Q posted. What I saw was that almost immediately after the IWU captains turned to go toward their sideline, Wesleyan players rushed onto the field. This is clearly visible in the bottom left hand corner of the tape. At the 10 second mark, at least 5 IWU players have entered the picture. It appears the leader of the pack was #11. Also among the 1st on the scene are #s 40, 83, 82, and 48. NO NCC players besides the captains are even in the picture. Perhaps my Mad Cow has also affected my eyesight?

As Titan Q, I believe, also touched on, I don't think it really matters where teams congregate on the field. The NCC players never did anything like attempt to "rub out" the W logo with their cleats, or spit on the logo or anything like that. If so, I would be the 1st to say that this is wrong. I think both teams were enthusiastic about the game. That they came together on the (really BIG) W was a matter of happenstance rather than a case of disrespect.

[Titan Q]

If IWU defended their goal line with as much intensity as they defended that big gray W at midfield before the game, they probably don't get 46 hung on them and the coach doesn't say unfortunate things to the media.

I don't think intensity was an issue yesterday...that seems pretty clear.

[Stagg Again!!]

Okay North Central we get it; you won, you deserved to win and you were the better team yesterday. How about displaying a shred of decorum and to quote Jim Brown "act like you been there before"? Especially given that the historical statistics that you feel the need to gloat about, clearly shows that you have.

You won an important game handily, but that's apparently not enough. Your fan base feels the need to come on here and post about how you feel IWU wasn't competitive and was never in the game, and then gloat about every facet of the rivalry, which I think everyone can agree you own a significant advantage in recently. How about showing a shred of sportsmanship and just savoring the win without rubbing it in everyone's face?

Finally, lets stop pretending to be ignorant and that you don't understand the significance of the dust up on the W logo. Every football player and fan that I know understands that the midfield logo is considered sacred ground to the home team. NC's attempt to have their team stand on it prior to the game was done for one reason and one reason only, to start trouble. The fact that NC and their fans chose to hold their post game meeting squarely on top of that logo was ridiculous. Please dont insult everyone's intelligence and act like that was coincidence.

You've got a talented team. Stay classy Naperville.

Green, I can certainly understand that you are upset by by seeing your team lose, but I honestly saw nothing that would have lead the Titans to charge the field and go after the Cardinals (neither yesterday nor in the video today).  Perhaps you can show me where NCC was doing a stomp on the W.  Listen, John Thorne is not only way too classy a coach to put up with that type of behavior, but he is also an Illinois Wesleyan alum.  I can't understand the thinking on this one.

[kiko]

* I believe North Central is a significantly better team than the Titans.

* I believe this was an extremely competitive game that got away from IWU in the final 7 minutes of the game.  The better team clearly won.

* I believe North Central kept trying to score at the end of the game when they could have sat on the ball.  Whether that is bad sportsmanship is something we all probably have different opinions on.  Based on the tie-breaker situation in the CCIW, I get it...but I also understand how someone could take it personally if they were directly on the other side of it in a very emotional game.

* I believe Norm Eash was upset after losing a very emotional game (and probably at the feeling that NCC ran the score up) and made some very inappropriate comments to the media moments after the game he should not have. 

* I believe the above happens pretty often in sports.  As an IWU fan, I've been on the other side of this kind of thing, in different sports, many, many times.  Coaches are the ultimate competitors, and sometimes as a competitive person the hardest thing to do is admit you got beat -- especially while the emotions of the game are still raw.  You gravitate to what you didn't execute properly.  As a fan on the other side of the "We beat ourselves"-type comment, you take it personally -- you feel your team is being slighted.  I remember being upset about some comments Coach Swider made after IWU beat Wheaton a few years ago.  I also remember, in basketball, being upset by some Grey Giovanine comments after IWU beat Augie 2-3 seasons ago.  Again, it happens, and I totally get the reaction from NCC fans.


I am not trying to defend what Norm Eash said after the game, but just throwing a little perspective out there.

Two comments on this...

On the blue part - I think that Coach Thorne's track record this year is pretty clear -- when the Cardinals have been up big in the second half, he's called off the dogs.  There was obviously reason not to do so in this game given the potential impact on a tiebreaker scenario.  I get that Coach Eash may not like the extra touchdown, but Coach Thorne would have been fairly derelict in watching out for his team's best interests if he'd gone into a quasi-victory formation at that point.

On the red part - I get the heat of the moment, etc., but he's been a head coach (and a good one) for over a quarter-century.  He really should know by now how to count to ten before saying stuff he may later want a mulligan on.

-----

At the end of the day, none of this really matters.  The Titans showed that they are a very good team, and I expect they will not only be very much in the conversation when it comes time to choose Pool C teams, but that they will more than hold their own should they get the nod.

For the Cards, it was a big W, but there's still business to take care of.  Onward to face General Mills next Saturday.

[Titan Q]

At the end of the day, none of this really matters.

Agree.

[Green Jello Shots]

Lets not pretend that Thorne has warm and fuzzy feelings for IWU because he went to school there. That's not debatable even to the biggest drinkers of red Kool-Aid. If anything, he he seems to hold a huge grudge against his alma mater's program, as Coach Eash does for NC

Second, why did the coaches, players and fans for North Central hold their post game celebration squarely on the W logo if that piece of geography meant nothing to NC? I've been part of lots of post game celebrations on the road both as a player and a fan and can't recall ever having said celebrations on the other team's logo. Please don't feign ignorant coincidence that was where NC celebrated.

Finally anyone who was at the pregame saw NC make a move towards the logo that spurred IWU's move to block it. The camera angle just isn't wide enough to include the NC team in the frame.clearly both teams came out to there to deliver a message.

We need to start worrying about Augustana and NC needs to start worrying about Wheaton. Good luck, we need your help.

[Kovo]

I was standing right on the sidelines where the NC team comes out of the locker rooms, and I can assure you that the NCC team rushed the center of the field first, and the IWU team, then waiting in their proper place on the sideline, came out to the center of the field second.  The description you have posted, AndOne, is clearly in error.

IWU70

This exact same scenario played out in 2011. These two teams just hate each other.

If IWU defended their goal line with as much intensity as they defended that big gray W at midfield before the game, they probably don't get 46 hung on them and the coach doesn't say unfortunate things to the media.

Wally---YOU JUST KILLED US!  Now they are going to move the W in the end zones which means they probably shut us out in 2015.  Thanks for revealing the secret to them.  Now we are roasted birds! 

[Stagg Again!!]

I was standing right on the sidelines where the NC team comes out of the locker rooms, and I can assure you that the NCC team rushed the center of the field first, and the IWU team, then waiting in their proper place on the sideline, came out to the center of the field second.  The description you have posted, AndOne, is clearly in error.

IWU70

This exact same scenario played out in 2011. These two teams just hate each other.

If IWU defended their goal line with as much intensity as they defended that big gray W at midfield before the game, they probably don't get 46 hung on them and the coach doesn't say unfortunate things to the media.

Wally---YOU JUST KILLED US!  Now they are going to move the W in the end zones which means they probably shut us out in 2015.  Thanks for revealing the secret to them.  Now we are roasted birds! 

+k Kovo.  Time for this issue to be put to bed.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Being serious for a moment, I've always thought that pregame dustups of any kind were utterly pointless. Really. If the other team wants to go stomp on our logo, fine; last time I checked, they don't award any points for that, so whatever. Don't give me any crap about making a point that "no one disrespects us on our field!" or anything like that because you'll have 60 minutes to send that message between the lines.

[Gregory Sager]

NPU let a very winnable game slip away today. The Vikings led at the half, and were still up deep into the third quarter. The big reason why Elmhurst came from behind to win was twofold: 1) The Bluejays were able to mount just enough rushing offense to wear down the smaller Vikings up front as the second half went on; and 2) Elmhurst got better play from the quarterback position. Junior QB Joe Camilieri was the big difference for the 'jays; he didn't pile up gaudy statistics, but on a number of occasions he stood and took the big hit from Vikings rushers in order to put a pass on target. On the other side of the field, T.D. Conway had a pretty poor day. He was consistently off-target all afternoon, overthrowing numerous receivers (including several who were wide open), and two of the three interceptions he threw were just bad reads on his part that turned out to be very costly. One blunted a drive at the EC 22, and the second was deep in NPU territory and led to the first 'jays touchdown in the third quarter.

He's a freshman quarterback, and this is what you get from freshmen -- a great day followed by a bad day. Last week in Rock Island, he was king of the world. Today, not so much. Vikings fans need to keep reminding themselves that it's a learning process for him. He has what it takes to be a terrific CCIW QB, but it's going to take him more than one season to get there.

A disappointing loss, but I suppose that it's some sort of solace that the Vikings are even in a position in which they can have disappointing losses instead of the humdrum whippings of yesteryear. Next week @ Millikin looks like a good occasion for T.D. and his compatriots to bounce back.

Must admit I was thoroughly convinced that a NPU victory was in the cards yesterday. With the momentum garnered from last week's pillaging of their western namesakes, plus home field advantage among the considerations, I was surprised at the outcome.

I wasn't. I knew it would be a close game, and not just because Ken Massey's computer said so.

3. With regard to professionalism and ethics, it seems a good example of such would be the coach who sent congratulatory notes to new North Park coach Conway, never even having met the man beforehand. Wonder who that could have been?

That's not true, though. Mike Conway and John Thorne have known each other for the better part of two decades. John Thorne coached high-school football in the western suburbs in the '90s, and several of his seniors during that era were recruited by Olivet Nazarene head coach Mike Conway.

What is true is that John Thorne didn't have to go out of his way to write long and heartfelt congratulatory e-mails to a rival CCIW coach, not once but twice. But it's very much in line with everything I've ever heard about the man. Scott Pethtel also made a point of telling me last season how encouraging and supportive John Thorne's postgame comments to him were after last year's NCC @ NPU contest, in spite of the fact that those comments took place in the wake of a lopsided game -- something that was a marked contrast to postgame comments made by at least one of the other CCIW head coaches to Scott.

Although I've never met John Thorne, I've never heard anyone other than Norm Eash say anything bad about him; even Q has acknowledged that the NCC coach had his team score that final touchdown yesterday because CCIW football tiebreaker rules make it a necessity to keep pouring it on in a situation in which you're beating a team with whom you might be potentially locked in a multiple-team tie at season's end with no head-to-head tiebreaker available.

(Working both as the play-by-play announcer and as the P.A. announcer for multiple sports at North Park, I've heard the CCIW sportsmanship statement recited into a mic before a game so many times now that I practically know it by heart. Seems to me that the league runs the risk of being considered hypocritical if it requires sportsmanship of CCIW fans while simultaneously forcing CCIW football coaches to throw sportsmanship right out the window due to tiebreaking procedures.)

And, yeah, as CardinalAlum and LGhost have said, I've heard complaints from people affiliated with several different schools about Norm Eash running up scores. Personally, I haven't really paid much attention to that and haven't cared much about the opprobrium that he seems to draw in this room and elsewhere in CCIW circles. NPU has tended over the years to get its' tail whipped so badly on the gridiron that it was sometimes hard to tell when a team was running up a score against the Vikings and when it wasn't. Nevertheless, his postgame remarks yesterday were clearly intemperate, ungracious, and ill-advised. As kiko said, he's been a head coach long enough to know better.

No problem from this observer on the late TDs. The way the CCIW breaks a tie basically encourages you to beat everybody by as many points as possible.

No, not everybody ... just the teams with which you might possibly be involved in a tie at season's end that can't be broken by head-to-head results (i.e., three or more teams involved in the tie). There's no strategic benefit to running up the score against a team such as Augustana, Carthage, Elmhurst, Millikin, or North Park, because none of those teams really had a prayer of finishing in a multiple-team, h2h-resistant tie with NCC, IWU, or Wheaton this season. The gap between the top three teams and the lower five teams in the 2013 edition of the CCIW is pretty dramatic.

[kiko]

(Working both as the play-by-play announcer and as the P.A. announcer for multiple sports at North Park, I've heard the CCIW sportsmanship statement recited into a mic before a game so many times now that I practically know it by heart. Seems to me that the league runs the risk of being considered hypocritical if it requires sportsmanship of CCIW fans while simultaneously forcing CCIW football coaches to throw sportsmanship right out the window due to tiebreaking procedures.)

FWIW, and as one example of an analog to this, the way Little League Baseball gets around this is to make the tiebreaker solely based on runs allowed.  (Specifically, runs per defensive inning.)  It's not perfect, but it prevents a scenario where one team of kids piles it on against another because run differential might make the difference.  So it becomes less important that you win 30-0 and more important that you win something-to-zero rather than something-to-one.

I don't necessarily think this (i.e. - points allowed) is the right solution for the CCIW, but it does change the incentive.  The current CCIW system absolutely encourages you to keep the foot on the gas against those teams who may be involved in a tie.