FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[wally_wabash]

Well, it depends whether SOS is considered more important than H2H. Wheaton is #65, IWU is #101. The first Regional Rankings always anger some schools and give us something to talk about mid-week.

The SOS page seems to be a little wonky at the moment so I can't check for sure, but I would note that when you're comparing SOS's using simply the ranking can be a bit misleading.  It is much more meaningful to look at the actual numbers.  One team may be 65th and another 101st but there really may not be a significant difference in the actual SOS. 

And then, if you're really paying attention to detail, you could look at who the teams actually played.  IWU played Aurora, Alma, and Hope.  Wheaton played Benedictine, Albion, and Luther.  Quantitatively there is a difference there (which shows up in the SOS calculus), but if we're being honest here, is there really much of a qualitative difference?  Can we sit here and say that Wheaton played a really hard non-league schedule while IWU cupcaked their way through September?  No...no, I don't think we can say that.  Certainly not to a degree that should trump a h2h result (and a decisive one at that...IWU won the game by multiple scores) from one week ago. 

The AFCA got it wrong wrong wrong.  I would be surprised if the regional rankings don't get this one right.

I understand all that. It's just my perception that the first Regional Rankings go strictly by Record and SOS. Teams may not be ranked in the same order by the "real experts."

Has that been a problem in the North region?  Serious question.  I know we've seen some odd stuff in the West's rankings and their treatment of Whitewater in the midst of their ridiculous Stagg Bowl streak.  But even that was Whitewater being ranked below other really good undefeated teams in the region without h2h's or common opponent results available to help order things.  I would really be shocked if today's rankings have IWU behind Wheaton.  There's really no justification for it. 

[badgerwarhawk]

Well, it depends whether SOS is considered more important than H2H. Wheaton is #65, IWU is #101. The first Regional Rankings always anger some schools and give us something to talk about mid-week.

The SOS page seems to be a little wonky at the moment so I can't check for sure, but I would note that when you're comparing SOS's using simply the ranking can be a bit misleading.  It is much more meaningful to look at the actual numbers.  One team may be 65th and another 101st but there really may not be a significant difference in the actual SOS. 

And then, if you're really paying attention to detail, you could look at who the teams actually played.  IWU played Aurora, Alma, and Hope.  Wheaton played Benedictine, Albion, and Luther.  Quantitatively there is a difference there (which shows up in the SOS calculus), but if we're being honest here, is there really much of a qualitative difference?  Can we sit here and say that Wheaton played a really hard non-league schedule while IWU cupcaked their way through September?  No...no, I don't think we can say that.  Certainly not to a degree that should trump a h2h result (and a decisive one at that...IWU won the game by multiple scores) from one week ago. 

The AFCA got it wrong wrong wrong.  I would be surprised if the regional rankings don't get this one right.

I understand all that. It's just my perception that the first Regional Rankings go strictly by Record and SOS. Teams may not be ranked in the same order by the "real experts."

Has that been a problem in the North region?  Serious question.  I know we've seen some odd stuff in the West's rankings and their treatment of Whitewater in the midst of their ridiculous Stagg Bowl streak.  But even that was Whitewater being ranked below other really good undefeated teams in the region without h2h's or common opponent results available to help order things.  I would really be shocked if today's rankings have IWU behind Wheaton.  There's really no justification for it. 

Interestingly the year (2010) WHITEWATER was moved to the North Region and seeded #2 behind North Central the chairman of the selection committee stated that there was no common opponent to compare the two.  In fact there was and it was Eau Claire who the WARHAWKS defeated 45-0 and North Central defeated 20-6.  Somehow the selection committee chairman and members were totally obivious.   

[New Tradition]

I do not agree to conflating militarism with intercollegiate athletics.  Postsecondary institutions, especially D3 schools, should not succumb to the gimmickry.

Oh, I couldn't agree more.  I'm tired of universities that glorify the military and people that are known for their ferocity and war-like tendencies, such as the North Park Vikings.  Universities should all change their nicknames to innocuous creatures or phenomena that can be found in nature.  C'mon CCIW board, join the crusade! ...thunder?

The fundraiser is not about "militarism" as you put it.  Elmhurst and other programs are doing something noble to support charities such as The Wounded Warrior Project.  Under no circumstances should supporting those who have protected and SACRIFICED for our (AND YOUR) freedom be considered "gimmickry".  Get real.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Well, it depends whether SOS is considered more important than H2H. Wheaton is #65, IWU is #101. The first Regional Rankings always anger some schools and give us something to talk about mid-week.

The SOS page seems to be a little wonky at the moment so I can't check for sure, but I would note that when you're comparing SOS's using simply the ranking can be a bit misleading.  It is much more meaningful to look at the actual numbers.  One team may be 65th and another 101st but there really may not be a significant difference in the actual SOS. 

And then, if you're really paying attention to detail, you could look at who the teams actually played.  IWU played Aurora, Alma, and Hope.  Wheaton played Benedictine, Albion, and Luther.  Quantitatively there is a difference there (which shows up in the SOS calculus), but if we're being honest here, is there really much of a qualitative difference?  Can we sit here and say that Wheaton played a really hard non-league schedule while IWU cupcaked their way through September?  No...no, I don't think we can say that.  Certainly not to a degree that should trump a h2h result (and a decisive one at that...IWU won the game by multiple scores) from one week ago. 

The AFCA got it wrong wrong wrong.  I would be surprised if the regional rankings don't get this one right.

I understand all that. It's just my perception that the first Regional Rankings go strictly by Record and SOS. Teams may not be ranked in the same order by the "real experts."

Has that been a problem in the North region?  Serious question.  I know we've seen some odd stuff in the West's rankings and their treatment of Whitewater in the midst of their ridiculous Stagg Bowl streak.  But even that was Whitewater being ranked below other really good undefeated teams in the region without h2h's or common opponent results available to help order things.  I would really be shocked if today's rankings have IWU behind Wheaton.  There's really no justification for it. 

Interestingly the year (2010) WHITEWATER was moved to the North Region and seeded #2 behind North Central the chairman of the selection committee stated that there was no common opponent to compare the two.  In fact there was and it was Eau Claire who the WARHAWKS defeated 45-0 and North Central defeated 20-6.  Somehow the selection committee chairman and members were totally obivious.

Just posted about this on the WRR thread as well - wasn't that before the addition of the provision that allows comparison of prior year's playoff results when comparing two undefeated teams?  Your point is well taken, but I don't think that'll be a problem at the TOP of the rankings now, at least with undefeated teams that are defending national champions/semifinalists.  I do concede that you way still have issues at the bottom of the rankings (which still can be very important in terms of the "results against RR teams" criteria).

[Pat Coleman]

Regional rankings:
http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2013/11/06/first-2013-ncaa-regional-rankings/

[ncc_fan]

Regional rankings:
http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2013/11/06/first-2013-ncaa-regional-rankings/

Franklin's record is listed as 6-2  6-2, but it should be 6-1  6-2.  One of those losses is to D-I Butler.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

Regional rankings:
http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2013/11/06/first-2013-ncaa-regional-rankings/

Franklin's record is listed as 6-2  6-2, but it should be 6-1  6-2.  One of those losses is to D-I Butler.

Good catch, maybe that will keep the GRIZ out of the 4/5 death bracket. 

[markerickson]

Football at Butler and its football-only conference, the Pioneer League, is 100% non-athletic scholarship.

[ncc_fan]

The NCAA site shows Franklin's record as 6-0 6-2, so they're not counting the Butler game, but they're also not counting the UMU game as in-region. http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/d3/regional-rankings

The NCAA site also shows NCC's in-region record as 5-0.  Are they not counting the games against WIAC schools?  Those are all in-region per the "administrative region" criterion. 

Pat, can you enlighten the NCAA folks about their own rules?

[Mr. Ypsi]

The NCAA site shows Franklin's record as 6-0 6-2, so they're not counting the Butler game, but they're also not counting the UMU game as in-region. http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/d3/regional-rankings

The NCAA site also shows NCC's in-region record as 5-0.  Are they not counting the games against WIAC schools?  Those are all in-region per the "administrative region" criterion. 

Pat, can you enlighten the NCAA folks about their own rules?

Pat already explained that for the North (unlike the other regions), the NCAA listed conference records rather than d3 records.

[Pat Coleman]

The NCAA site shows Franklin's record as 6-0 6-2, so they're not counting the Butler game, but they're also not counting the UMU game as in-region. http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/d3/regional-rankings

The NCAA site also shows NCC's in-region record as 5-0.  Are they not counting the games against WIAC schools?  Those are all in-region per the "administrative region" criterion. 

Pat, can you enlighten the NCAA folks about their own rules?

I've done enough of that already this football season. Up to someone else this time.

[iwu70]

I think WC goes down for loss #2 this weekend.  Probably no post-season for them.  I'd say NCC 35, WC 10.

Sure hope my Titans take care of business at Augie.  Always a tough game at Rock Island.

Regional rankings, at this point, look OK to me. 

IWU70

[formerd3db]

Football at Butler and its football-only conference, the Pioneer League, is 100% non-athletic scholarship.

So is the Ivy League.

[wally_wabash]

Heck of a day if you're wearing green.  Hope getting ranked today is a huge bonus for Illinois Wesleyan.  That gives IWU two wins over RROs and as long as they meet expectations over the next 10 days, I have a hard time finding any logical way for IWU to not be one of the first couple of teams in through Pool C. 

[iwu70]

WallyW, agree with you.  Titans have to take care of business @Augie, then senior day @home vs. Elmhurst.  I think they can do it. 

WC vs. NCC this weekend will be a great game, but I just think NCC has too much for the Wheaties this year.  IWU played NCC tough for three quarters, but then it all came apart fast. 

IWU70