FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[wally_wabash]

The timing of Hunniford's insertion into the lineup suggests that the NCC brain trust may well be looking to him being the primary signal caller in passing situations with Warden being The Man to lead the rushing attack.

IMO, this is kind of the worst way to rotate QBs.  The passing QB/running QB dynamic telegraphs the play.  Maybe telegraph is too strong a word, but it definitely edges more toward tipping your hand to a defense than what is probably necessary.  For North Central in probably 8/10 games that they play this year, it won't matter.  They could openly shout out what play they're running and still beat whoever is on the other side because they're just that much better.  But in a couple of 2015 games, signaling run/pass based on who is behind center is a head start they probably shouldn't give up. 

Wabash rotates QBs which I'm not a huge fan of, but I can accept it because Wabash's offense doesn't really change much depending on who is at QB.  The only thing that really changes is that Rice is left handed and Putko throws right (Connor Rice: Situational Lefty). 

[USee]

I watched the end of the Albion/Augie game when Augie was leading 49-46. Albion scored on a 30+ yd pass with a broken coverage where no one was covering the WR and then they scored on a long run on 3rd and 1 when they had the RB tackled in the backfield and he broke 2-3 tackles for a long TD run. I didn't see the rest of the game but what I watched was a lack of defense more than great offense. I'll be interested to see if these two teams can keep up their scoring pace against good defenses.

Usee,

I watched most of the game online, and I would tend to agree with you.  Although Albion does have several offensive weapons and will score a lot of points in the MIAA this season, Augie's defense was simply non-existent.  The last TD where Albion's RB broke several tackles was repeated throughout the game.  It was a pretty rare for Albion not to gain significant extra yardage after first contact.  I can't remember seeing a game with worse tackling than Augie showed yesterday.  The other disturbing thing is that they didn't seem to make any defensive adjustments as the game went on.  Albion just moved the ball down the field, at will, as their 733 yards of total offense would indicate.  Augie's offense will be fun to watch this season, but for an old defensive player, I'm not sure how much of that D I'll be able to watch.  The 99 points that Augie has given up in two games is 26 more than we gave up in 13 games during my senior year.

I think that the Britons deserve more credit for their performance than you seem willing to give them. Last week Albion's offense put up 59 of the team's 65 points and 687 yards of total offense against UWSP. And, while we have no idea yet of where the Pointers sit in terms of their league, putting up those kinds of numbers against a WIAC team -- any WIAC team -- is a testament to a team's ability to really get after it on offense.

Augie did give up a fair amount of points and yardage to Mt. St. Joe, so there's that. But the Lions didn't have eye-popping offensive stats. I'll take your word (and USee's) for it that Augie's defense looks terrible, and I'm sure that it played a large part in those massive numbers put up by Albion. But the offense of the Britons deserves its due as well.

You mean the WIAC that went 2-5 the first week against paltry competition? Bad conference Greg. 

[Gregory Sager]

Now we're going to get another week's worth of emma17 arguments in here. Thanks a lot, USee.

[formerd3db]

Now we're going to get another week's worth of emma17 arguments in here. Thanks a lot, USee.

Ah, but Gregory...we know you love the academic debates!  To most of us, reading (and sometimes participating in those with you and others ) is always fun and interesting regardless of differing points of view!

[Gregory Sager]

Academic debates are one thing, but emma17's frequently stray into facepalm territory. Check out what he said about Pat Coleman on the WIAC board this evening. It was so breathtakingly silly that I have to give it the rare Godzilla facepalm:

[formerd3db]

Academic debates are one thing, but emma17's frequently stray into facepalm territory. Check out what he said about Pat Coleman on the WIAC board this evening. It was so breathtakingly silly that I have to give it the rare Godzilla facepalm:

Not defending or commenting specifically about that.  Fun jest in general about debates was the obvious intent. But...I do like your Godzilla photo-appropriate use noted.

[Gregory Sager]

The Godzilla facepalm should be used only in unusual and extreme circumstances. But, when used properly, it's a satisfyingly emphatic way to make a point.

[mr_b]

Academic debates are one thing, but emma17's frequently stray into facepalm territory. Check out what he said about Pat Coleman on the WIAC board this evening. It was so breathtakingly silly that I have to give it the rare Godzilla facepalm:

I just read that post. You're gonna need a bigger palm.

[Stagg Again!!]

Thanks, Stagg.
Izzy, I think you are on the money concerning the 3 previous NCC QBs that you mentioned.
Goulet, I agree about the possibility of rotation, and I don't much care for the idea either. However, the coaches surely know what they are doing. Whatever works. 😊

What "works" at North Central is "Faith, Family, and Football"...

http://d3football.com/columns/around-the-region/midwest/index

[USee]

Copying and pasting part of a conversation from NCAC board because it is relevant to a discussion we have had here several weeks ago.

If you lose two games in the first ten, against anybody, you're not gonna play for or win the national championship. It's irrelevant. The reward for playing a challenging team in the regular season far outweighs the risk.

Agreed.  If the objective isn't just to make the playoffs as often as possible, but to get to Salem then this is absolutely true IMO.  If you're truly striving for a title then you need to play teams in that upper echelon as often as possible I'd think.

As an aside, I would be a fan of teams finding a good OOC rival and sticking with it.  I wish Mount would do this although I'm not sure who it'd be.  W&J would be fun perhaps.  For Wabash I think it'd be a cool OOC rivalry if they played Franklin week 1 each year for example.  I don't know about other schools, but Mount can never seem to keep anyone around for longer than a home-and-home though.

This may be.  But there is NO evidence that this strategy helps teams get to Salem or be in the upper echelon (wherever you want to draw that line).  Buffalo State played and beat Whitewater in 2012.  Playoff appearances for the Bengals since that monumental win (and I'm counting this as monumental even if that was the season where Whitewater was off for whatever reason): 0.  They've never even played in the tournament.  They beat the champs and all they got out of it was fleeting adoration from the D3 community and a splashy cover photo/headline combo in Week 3 of 2012.  And then it was all gone.  Beat Whitewater in December though- now you've (probably) earned something meaningful, like a trip to Salem or the ultimate celebration at Salem Stadium.

North Central is taking the long road this year. They (and some of their fans) believe it is the answer to breaking through to Salem eventually. We get to see it play out live over the next 15 weeks or so.

[ncc_fan]

Copying and pasting part of a conversation from NCAC board because it is relevant to a discussion we have had here several weeks ago.

If you lose two games in the first ten, against anybody, you're not gonna play for or win the national championship. It's irrelevant. The reward for playing a challenging team in the regular season far outweighs the risk.

Agreed.  If the objective isn't just to make the playoffs as often as possible, but to get to Salem then this is absolutely true IMO.  If you're truly striving for a title then you need to play teams in that upper echelon as often as possible I'd think.

As an aside, I would be a fan of teams finding a good OOC rival and sticking with it.  I wish Mount would do this although I'm not sure who it'd be.  W&J would be fun perhaps.  For Wabash I think it'd be a cool OOC rivalry if they played Franklin week 1 each year for example.  I don't know about other schools, but Mount can never seem to keep anyone around for longer than a home-and-home though.

This may be.  But there is NO evidence that this strategy helps teams get to Salem or be in the upper echelon (wherever you want to draw that line).  Buffalo State played and beat Whitewater in 2012.  Playoff appearances for the Bengals since that monumental win (and I'm counting this as monumental even if that was the season where Whitewater was off for whatever reason): 0.  They've never even played in the tournament.  They beat the champs and all they got out of it was fleeting adoration from the D3 community and a splashy cover photo/headline combo in Week 3 of 2012.  And then it was all gone.  Beat Whitewater in December though- now you've (probably) earned something meaningful, like a trip to Salem or the ultimate celebration at Salem Stadium.

North Central is taking the long road this year. They (and some of their fans) believe it is the answer to breaking through to Salem eventually. We get to see it play out live over the next 15 weeks or so.

I strongly suspect that NCC's selection of nonconference opponents is less about the answer to breaking through to Salem and more about the answer to finding teams willing to schedule the Cardinals.  NCC was resigned to a 9-game schedule until the Wesley deal fell from the sky in midsummer.

[AndOne]

The timing of Hunniford's insertion into the lineup suggests that the NCC brain trust may well be looking to him being the primary signal caller in passing situations with Warden being The Man to lead the rushing attack.

IMO, this is kind of the worst way to rotate QBs.  The passing QB/running QB dynamic telegraphs the play.  Maybe telegraph is too strong a word, but it definitely edges more toward tipping your hand to a defense than what is probably necessary.  For North Central in probably 8/10 games that they play this year, it won't matter.  They could openly shout out what play they're running and still beat whoever is on the other side because they're just that much better.  But in a couple of 2015 games, signaling run/pass based on who is behind center is a head start they probably shouldn't give up. 

Wabash rotates QBs which I'm not a huge fan of, but I can accept it because Wabash's offense doesn't really change much depending on who is at QB.  The only thing that really changes is that Rice is left handed and Putko throws right (Connor Rice: Situational Lefty).

Despite the potential of broadcasting whether the forthcoming play will be run or pass by virtue of which QB may be on the field at any given time, NCC is in the position to very possibly benefit from a little reverse psychology depending which QB might be in the game. While Warden might be in on what appears to be a running situation, he obviously possesses an above average ability to throw the ball. For substantiating evidence of such, you need look no further than defense exhibit #1, his distinction of leading the nation in passing efficiency last year. And, while Hunniford, who built his reputation primarily on his arm, being on the field might tend to signal a pass play, there exists plenty of tape of him completing dazzling running plays while leaving defenders grasping at air. Therefore, in NCC's case, initial appearance may be more than a bit deceiving. 

[AndOne]

Many teams contacted by the Cardinals as potential opponents wanted no part of them despite the fact that their jerseys are not purple. Thanks be to the football Gods that Wesley was not at all afraid to accept the challenge!
In fact, the Cardinals are so appreciative that they are treating the Wolverines to a dinner of lobster cocktail, prime filet mignon, puree de pommes de terre, and chocolate cake with ice cream for dessert.     

[wally_wabash]

The timing of Hunniford's insertion into the lineup suggests that the NCC brain trust may well be looking to him being the primary signal caller in passing situations with Warden being The Man to lead the rushing attack.

IMO, this is kind of the worst way to rotate QBs.  The passing QB/running QB dynamic telegraphs the play.  Maybe telegraph is too strong a word, but it definitely edges more toward tipping your hand to a defense than what is probably necessary.  For North Central in probably 8/10 games that they play this year, it won't matter.  They could openly shout out what play they're running and still beat whoever is on the other side because they're just that much better.  But in a couple of 2015 games, signaling run/pass based on who is behind center is a head start they probably shouldn't give up. 

Wabash rotates QBs which I'm not a huge fan of, but I can accept it because Wabash's offense doesn't really change much depending on who is at QB.  The only thing that really changes is that Rice is left handed and Putko throws right (Connor Rice: Situational Lefty).

Despite the potential of broadcasting whether the forthcoming play will be run or pass by virtue of which QB may be on the field at any given time, NCC is in the position to very possibly benefit from a little reverse psychology depending which QB might be in the game. While Warden might be in on what appears to be a running situation, he obviously possesses an above average ability to throw the ball. For substantiating evidence of such, you need look no further than defense exhibit #1, his distinction of leading the nation in passing efficiency last year. And, while Hunniford, who built his reputation primarily on his arm, being on the field might tend to signal a pass play, there exists plenty of tape of him completing dazzling running plays while leaving defenders grasping at air. Therefore, in NCC's case, initial appearance may be more than a bit deceiving. 

All true.  Except that nobody who rotates quarterbacks in this manner (run QB vs. pass QB) ever does this thing where the running QB passes and the passing QB runs...and the other guys never saw it coming hahahaha.  That doesn't happen.  Teams that do this have specific packages for the run guy, specific packages for the pass guy and while both packages will have some run and pass in them, the bulk of the play packages will be geared toward one or the other.  That's just how this thing always works.  That's the kind of system that would drive me batty.  And the danger zone for North Central, I think, is that against most of their schedule whatever it is that they do will work because the other team just won't have the players to stop it, even if they know it's coming (and on the off chance they get fooled by Warden dropping a bomb on a run fake, neat...NCC probably won the game by five scores anyway).  Those are two really good players.  Were it me, and I've never won a single game, I'd choose to not bifurcate my offense and pick one or the other and go from there. 

[AndOne]

The NCC Press Release/Game Notes show Dylan Warden is again listed as the starting QB for NCC against UWP in Wisconsin on Sat.