FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

Even if it were 14, a 7-3 NCC team seems generously placed due to past seasons' successes.  May they earn the ranking this season.  I had hoped for a stray vote or two for IWU, but I guess their past seasons' successes are too far in the past (and not THAT successful).

However, that seemingly not over impressive 7-3 team finished at #16 last season due to the fact that it's 3 losses were to teams with a combined record of 30-5. Additionally, those same 3 teams that beat the Cardinals last year are ranked #7, #8, and #12 going into this season so they evidently are not one and done organizations. Accordingly, rather than being "generously placed," it appears NCC is slotted in a position congruent with both their recent past achievement and near future potential. 

[USee]

The other side of that coin is that there were a lot of teams that also lost to those 3 teams that are not ranked this year.  So the question some wold ask is why does NCC get a pass and what did they actually accomplish to earn a #14...err #13 ranking. 

To answer that question anyone with two eyes can see NCC could have just have easily won all 3 of those games so it's easier to put them in the rankings among those teams be use of the competitiveness.

But that's not how you are supposed to rank teams....


It's so confusing.

[markerickson]

You're thinking first place votes this fall for a team that lost to North Park last year, ending a string of __x__ consecutive Titan victories?

[Pat Coleman]

The other side of that coin is that there were a lot of teams that also lost to those 3 teams that are not ranked this year.  So the question some wold ask is why does NCC get a pass and what did they actually accomplish to earn a #14...err #13 ranking. 

To answer that question anyone with two eyes can see NCC could have just have easily won all 3 of those games so it's easier to put them in the rankings among those teams be use of the competitiveness.

But that's not how you are supposed to rank teams....


It's so confusing.

North Central is behind everyone it lost to last year. Ahead of everyone it beat. Obviously a 2016 ranking is not going to be based solely on 2015 results but the 2015 results affirm this as a reasonable ranking.

[HansenRatings]

The other side of that coin is that there were a lot of teams that also lost to those 3 teams that are not ranked this year.  So the question some wold ask is why does NCC get a pass and what did they actually accomplish to earn a #14...err #13 ranking. 

To answer that question anyone with two eyes can see NCC could have just have easily won all 3 of those games so it's easier to put them in the rankings among those teams be use of the competitiveness.

But that's not how you are supposed to rank teams....


It's so confusing.

How are you "supposed to" rank teams? Do you have an instruction manual you could share?

A human voter is going to use empirical evidence when available (Team A lost to Team B, Team B should be ranked higher), but when empirical evidence is conflicting (three-way ties, vastly different results over mutual opponents) or when there's no evidence to make a direct comparison, there has to be some subjectivity involved in their rankings. Vis a vis "Yes, North Central lost three (very close) games last season, but I think they are one of the best 25 teams in the country."

[Gregory Sager]

You're thinking first place votes this fall for a team that lost to North Park last year, ending a string of __x__ consecutive Titan victories?

29

[USee]

The other side of that coin is that there were a lot of teams that also lost to those 3 teams that are not ranked this year.  So the question some wold ask is why does NCC get a pass and what did they actually accomplish to earn a #14...err #13 ranking. 

To answer that question anyone with two eyes can see NCC could have just have easily won all 3 of those games so it's easier to put them in the rankings among those teams be use of the competitiveness.

But that's not how you are supposed to rank teams....


It's so confusing.

North Central is behind everyone it lost to last year. Ahead of everyone it beat. Obviously a 2016 ranking is not going to be based solely on 2015 results but the 2015 results affirm this as a reasonable ranking.

I hear you Pat, but, to play the other side for a minute, the gap between who you lost to and who you beat is pretty large. NCC beat Trine, Elmhurst, IWU, NPU, Carthage, and Elmhurst last year. I don't see any of those teams in any rankings. Hiram and Heidlberg can make the same claim. So something else is going into the ranking besides "empirical" data. Again, I actually think NCC is fairly ranked and is a top 15 team, but there are others on here who have argued they get the benefit of the doubt more than most teams.

Someone smart on here used to say repeatedly "It's not who you lost to that matters, it's who you beat".

[Pat Coleman]

Yep, and in a preseason poll nobody has actually beaten anyone, right?

I think it's probably likely that not only the W-L result but also the score are taken into account here: Lost on the road in OT, lost by one at home, lost by eight. Those are all valid data points any voter would use. Yes, when you're talking about what's now the fourth-best team on their schedule, there's some gap. But the fourth-best team on most teams' regular-season schedules isn't likely to be a world-beater, either.

[AndOne]

The other side of that coin is that there were a lot of teams that also lost to those 3 teams that are not ranked this year.  So the question some wold ask is why does NCC get a pass and what did they actually accomplish to earn a #14...err #13 ranking. 

To answer that question anyone with two eyes can see NCC could have just have easily won all 3 of those games so it's easier to put them in the rankings among those teams be use of the competitiveness.

But that's not how you are supposed to rank teams....


It's so confusing.

North Central is behind everyone it lost to last year. Ahead of everyone it beat. Obviously a 2016 ranking is not going to be based solely on 2015 results but the 2015 results affirm this as a reasonable ranking.

I hear you Pat, but, to play the other side for a minute, the gap between who you lost to and who you beat is pretty large. NCC beat Trine, Elmhurst, IWU, NPU, Carthage, and Elmhurst last year. I don't see any of those teams in any rankings. Hiram and Heidlberg can make the same claim. So something else is going into the ranking besides "empirical" data. Again, I actually think NCC is fairly ranked and is a top 15 team, but there are others on here who have argued they get the benefit of the doubt more than most teams.

Someone smart on here used to say repeatedly "It's not who you lost to that matters, it's who you beat".

Perhaps thats true, perhaps not. However, if true, its pretty easily understandable given the fact that since 2005 North Central has compiled an outstanding record of 105-23, including 70-7 in the CCIW. Pretty high level of achievement on a consistent basis.

[USee]

The other side of that coin is that there were a lot of teams that also lost to those 3 teams that are not ranked this year.  So the question some wold ask is why does NCC get a pass and what did they actually accomplish to earn a #14...err #13 ranking. 

To answer that question anyone with two eyes can see NCC could have just have easily won all 3 of those games so it's easier to put them in the rankings among those teams be use of the competitiveness.

But that's not how you are supposed to rank teams....


It's so confusing.

North Central is behind everyone it lost to last year. Ahead of everyone it beat. Obviously a 2016 ranking is not going to be based solely on 2015 results but the 2015 results affirm this as a reasonable ranking.

I hear you Pat, but, to play the other side for a minute, the gap between who you lost to and who you beat is pretty large. NCC beat Trine, Elmhurst, IWU, NPU, Carthage, and Elmhurst last year. I don't see any of those teams in any rankings. Hiram and Heidlberg can make the same claim. So something else is going into the ranking besides "empirical" data. Again, I actually think NCC is fairly ranked and is a top 15 team, but there are others on here who have argued they get the benefit of the doubt more than most teams.

Someone smart on here used to say repeatedly "It's not who you lost to that matters, it's who you beat".

Perhaps thats true, perhaps not. However, if true, its pretty easily understandable given the fact that since 2005 North Central has compiled an outstanding record of 105-23, including 70-7 in the CCIW. Pretty high level of achievement on a consistent basis.

I agree. I should point out , as a true Wheaton fan, that 5 of those 7 CCIW losses and 23 total losses over those 11 seasons were against my Thunder!

[AndOne]

Indeed. The Cardinals hold a 6-5 advantage over the blue & orange since 2005. 🏈   

[USee]

Indeed. The Cardinals hold a 6-5 advantage over the blue & orange since 2005. 🏈   

And they have a 6-8 record against Wheaton since 2002 when the Thorne era started, the only losing record to a CCIW school, including losing 3 of the last 4 contests!  Aren't history lessons grand!

[kiko]

On a lighter note...

I'm following the off-season moves in La Liga and... well, good luck, AndOne.  Enjoy your time in the wilds of Galicia.

http://www.deportivo-la-coruna.com/n-news.php?cid=7546&ctg=3

[AndOne]

Yes, looks like my futbol 🏈 ⚽️ cover is blown! 😎
Just call me Florin. 😳

[Gregory Sager]

On a lighter note...

I'm following the off-season moves in La Liga and... well, good luck, AndOne.  Enjoy your time in the wilds of Galicia.

http://www.deportivo-la-coruna.com/n-news.php?cid=7546&ctg=3