FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[formerd3db]

Wheaton scrimmaged Monmouth today at McCully Stadium. While the 1's were in Wheaton outscored Monmouth 28-0. At the end I think it finished 35-0. The Thunder defense looks very good, as expected and the offense moved the ball well for the most part. One costly turnover and another penalty stopped Wheaton drives. It was an officiated, "controlled" scrimmage. They played 4 quarters and the QB's were in yellow/orange jerseys for non contact. Wheaton QB's were Furrow and McWilliams with  Spencer Peterson getting some time. Guys who stood out to me included:

LB Eric Peterson-He is going to be a POY candidate before the season is done.
DL Patrick O'Connell-he is a load and does not stay blocked
WR Philip Nichols-Very active after the catch, looks like he is ready to break out this year.
RB TJ Williams-freshman RB-he is going to be really good. After tripping over the turf on his first collegiate carry, he broke a long TD and had several other runs where he made people miss.
LT Andrew Jones-long with great feet. Made some great run blocks on the outside zone.
TE Zach Lindquist-he is going to have a better year this year than last
QB's-I thought they all performed well. They are clearly well coached, throw the ball on time, good footwork, not many bad throws.
Chase Greenlee and Noah Spielman only played 1 series.

Wheaton is going to be tough to beat this year with that defense.

USee:
Hey, my friend.  Thanks for the overview on your "W"s scrimmage.  I hate to say this, but if that is any indication, Hope might be in for another tough contest again this year against Monmouth, particularly since it is at their stadium.  As they pasted us last year, and if that happens again (although I expect Hope to be much better this year), it will certainly give us at least a preliminary indication as to how Wheaton is going to be.  I know you guys were having some questions, however, it appears, at least for now, that the Wheaton machine is just gearing up.  I still wish Wheaton and Hope would return to a series, just like I wish Hope/Wabash, Hope/DePauw would return someday.  However, that will be a very long time, if any, I suspect.

Anyway, good luck to your team this weekend.

[Gregory Sager]

I hate to say this, but if that is any indication, Hope might be in for another tough contest again this year against Monmouth, particularly since it is at their stadium.

Did I miss something, formerd3db? Wheaton pasted Monmouth, 35-0, and USee offered not one iota of a positive thought regarding the Scots ... but you nevertheless read his post as an indication that Hope "might be in for another tough contest again this year against Monmouth" in spite of that?

Boy, I'd hate to see how big you would've built up the Scots if USee had actually found a reason to say something nice about them.

[USee]

yea, it was hard to tell if Monmouth is any good because Wheaton really dominated them. That said, Monmouth's QB made some really nice throws into tight windows and their DB's made a few great plays. They had 2 DL that stood out to me but I really don't know if they were holding guys out or if Wheaton is just that much better than them. Hard to tell in that format.

[bleedpurple]

yea, it was hard to tell if Monmouth is any good because Wheaton really dominated them. That said, Monmouth's QB made some really nice throws into tight windows and their DB's made a few great plays. They had 2 DL that stood out to me but I really don't know if they were holding guys out or if Wheaton is just that much better than them. Hard to tell in that format.

Now you've driven him out to the ledge. Please don't say Monmouth has good team speed or you might as well just push him off...   

Without having seen the scrimmage, I think it's pretty safe to say that Wheaton College is significantly stronger than Monmouth this year. You saw what you saw and Wheaton is nearly always stronger than Monmouth, at least when Alex Tanney isn't suited up for the Fighting Scots.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Aw, Bleed, you just HAD to go and spoil my day bringing up Alex Tanney!   (Deep breath - the 2011 playoffs did not exist .... the 2011 playoffs did not exist .... OK, much better now.)

As to the IWU/UWW game, I'm tickled pink to see so many considering it a game.  I'll be delighted (and consider it a 'victory') if we hold the margin to 20.  Don't get me wrong; I'm proud they scheduled the game.  But I fear they have bitten off WAY more than they can chew.  In 2009, having beaten both Wheaton AND NCC (only time this millennium), and then Wabash in round one, I honestly thought we could at least give you a good game.  WRONG!  Final score, 7-45.

[Pat Coleman]

Aw, Bleed, you just HAD to go and spoil my day bringing up Alex Tanney!   (Deep breath - the 2011 playoffs did not exist .... the 2011 playoffs did not exist .... OK, much better now.)

As to the IWU/UWW game, I'm tickled pink to see so many considering it a game.  I'll be delighted (and consider it a 'victory') if we hold the margin to 20.  Don't get me wrong; I'm proud they scheduled the game.  But I fear they have bitten off WAY more than they can chew.  In 2009, having beaten both Wheaton AND NCC (only time this millennium), and then Wabash in round one, I honestly thought we could at least give you a good game.  WRONG!  Final score, 7-45.

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2009/11/27/triple-take-round-2-a-close-eye-on-the-road/

[Gregory Sager]

Aw, Bleed, you just HAD to go and spoil my day bringing up Alex Tanney!   (Deep breath - the 2011 playoffs did not exist .... the 2011 playoffs did not exist .... OK, much better now.)

As to the IWU/UWW game, I'm tickled pink to see so many considering it a game.  I'll be delighted (and consider it a 'victory') if we hold the margin to 20.  Don't get me wrong; I'm proud they scheduled the game.  But I fear they have bitten off WAY more than they can chew.  In 2009, having beaten both Wheaton AND NCC (only time this millennium), and then Wabash in round one, I honestly thought we could at least give you a good game.  WRONG!  Final score, 7-45.

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2009/11/27/triple-take-round-2-a-close-eye-on-the-road/

Where have you gone, wackyjade? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

[formerd3db]

I hate to say this, but if that is any indication, Hope might be in for another tough contest again this year against Monmouth, particularly since it is at their stadium.

Did I miss something, formerd3db? Wheaton pasted Monmouth, 35-0, and USee offered not one iota of a positive thought regarding the Scots ... but you nevertheless read his post as an indication that Hope "might be in for another tough contest again this year against Monmouth" in spite of that?

Boy, I'd hate to see how big you would've built up the Scots if USee had actually found a reason to say something nice about them.

Gregory:

Yes, I think you did (no disrespect)! And you made my point.  Yes, I understand that Monmouth got pasted by Wheaton in the scrimmage and I totally understand USee's assessment.  Yet, unless Monmouth was really depleted on their roster of their top returning players, as they blasted us last year 44-3, Hope may again be in for a tough contest.  Granted, I think we are better this year, and I do not want to be negative about my alma mater.  So it will be interesting to see how this Saturday turns out.  Regardless, as you and USee mention, that just means that Wheaton  is levels above Monmouth (and Hope if Hope loses to Monmouth).  That is all I was alluding to.

Even if we win and/or win big, I am not sure how comparable that would be with respect to Wheaton.  Only a matchup between them would really assess the status, of course.  Hope is obviously in a new era/rebuilding mode with the new coaching staff only in their second season (and we have a new offensive coordinator for the second season in a row-who has DI experience of two years and DIII coaching before that as you already know, so that should help us).  With great improvement as seen last year, we still have a way to go to reach the experience of a playoff regular as Wheaton.     

[Pat Coleman]

To play Dutchman's advocate, your new staff is now in Game 11, rather than Game 1. Monmouth lost a school Hall of Fame-level quarterback. Have a little confidence. It might be OK.

[Gregory Sager]

I hate to say this, but if that is any indication, Hope might be in for another tough contest again this year against Monmouth, particularly since it is at their stadium.

Did I miss something, formerd3db? Wheaton pasted Monmouth, 35-0, and USee offered not one iota of a positive thought regarding the Scots ... but you nevertheless read his post as an indication that Hope "might be in for another tough contest again this year against Monmouth" in spite of that?

Boy, I'd hate to see how big you would've built up the Scots if USee had actually found a reason to say something nice about them.

Gregory:

Yes, I think you did (no disrespect)! And you made my point.  Yes, I understand that Monmouth got pasted by Wheaton in the scrimmage and I totally understand USee's assessment.  Yet, unless Monmouth was really depleted on their roster of their top returning players, as they blasted us last year 44-3, Hope may again be in for a tough contest.

See, again, this doesn't make any sense. How does Monmouth getting whipped by Wheaton make the Scots look formidable? How does USee not having anything good to say about Monmouth (since he didn't in his first post) make you think that this means that the Scots are going to be a tough opponent for Hope? This just doesn't compute.

Granted, I think we are better this year, and I do not want to be negative about my alma mater.  So it will be interesting to see how this Saturday turns out.  Regardless, as you and USee mention, that just means that Wheaton  is levels above Monmouth (and Hope if Hope loses to Monmouth).  That is all I was alluding to.

Well, this could kind of make sense, in a transitive sort of way, if Hope was going to play Wheaton. But Hope and Wheaton aren't scheduled to play each other this season, so Wheaton's relative prowess isn't germane to Hope fans. (It might be in two months if it looks like Hope is going to win the MIAA and Wheaton is playoff-bound again, and a Hope @ Wheaton contest looks like a possible first-round scenario, but right now it isn't.) But you weren't talking about Wheaton before; you were talking about Monmouth, and rightly so, since it's the team your Dutchmen are actually going to play. And with respect to that topic, USee said absolutely nothing that should make anyone fear the Scots. That's all I'm saying.

[formerd3db]

I hate to say this, but if that is any indication, Hope might be in for another tough contest again this year against Monmouth, particularly since it is at their stadium.

Did I miss something, formerd3db? Wheaton pasted Monmouth, 35-0, and USee offered not one iota of a positive thought regarding the Scots ... but you nevertheless read his post as an indication that Hope "might be in for another tough contest again this year against Monmouth" in spite of that?

Boy, I'd hate to see how big you would've built up the Scots if USee had actually found a reason to say something nice about them.

Gregory:

Yes, I think you did (no disrespect)! And you made my point.  Yes, I understand that Monmouth got pasted by Wheaton in the scrimmage and I totally understand USee's assessment.  Yet, unless Monmouth was really depleted on their roster of their top returning players, as they blasted us last year 44-3, Hope may again be in for a tough contest.

See, again, this doesn't make any sense. How does Monmouth getting whipped by Wheaton make the Scots look formidable? How does USee not having anything good to say about Monmouth (since he didn't in his first post) make you think that this means that the Scots are going to be a tough opponent for Hope? This just doesn't compute.

Granted, I think we are better this year, and I do not want to be negative about my alma mater.  So it will be interesting to see how this Saturday turns out.  Regardless, as you and USee mention, that just means that Wheaton  is levels above Monmouth (and Hope if Hope loses to Monmouth).  That is all I was alluding to.

Well, this could kind of make sense, in a transitive sort of way, if Hope was going to play Wheaton. But Hope and Wheaton aren't scheduled to play each other this season, so Wheaton's relative prowess isn't germane to Hope fans. (It might be in two months if it looks like Hope is going to win the MIAA and Wheaton is playoff-bound again, and a Hope @ Wheaton contest looks like a possible first-round scenario, but right now it isn't.) But you weren't talking about Wheaton before; you were talking about Monmouth, and rightly so, since it's the team your Dutchmen are actually going to play. And with respect to that topic, USee said absolutely nothing that should make anyone fear the Scots. That's all I'm saying.

Last comments on this for me...
Okay, GS, obviously we just disagree (once again) on premise, which is fine.  Yes, it does make sense.  That Hope is not playing Wheaton is irrelevant to the premise.  All I was saying was that is that if Monmouth was pounded that bad by Wheaton in the scrimmage, then, it is logical to assume (although certainly not necessarily true) in comparison to last year, that since Monmouth pounded Hope, and assuming they did not lose top players, there is a good chance they would be better than Hope.  However, as Pat added (and thank you Pat, for providing that information), Monmouth lost a star QB (who was a huge factor in the game against us last year), Hope is without question improved from what we once were (and continued to get better as last season progressed), and, yes, the staff is in its 11th game (with the exception of a new OC).

Regardless, I am going to be confident for us this Saturday even though it is an "away" opener (which we have not historically been very good at in the last few years) and also since I was impressed with what I saw early on at the start of our camp.  Obviously, the game result will provide more information (and fodder ) for opinions and I will re-assess mine after that event.   

[Pat Coleman]

We were very intentional with our relative ranking of Monmouth and Hope in Kickoff.

[Gregory Sager]

Last comments on this for me...
Okay, GS, obviously we just disagree (once again) on premise, which is fine.  Yes, it does make sense.

We don't disagree on premise. We disagree on whether you're making sense here.

That Hope is not playing Wheaton is irrelevant to the premise.

Agreed.

All I was saying was that is that if Monmouth was pounded that bad by Wheaton in the scrimmage, then, it is logical to assume (although certainly not necessarily true) in comparison to last year, that since Monmouth pounded Hope, and assuming they did not lose top players, there is a good chance they would be better than Hope.

Again, though, that's not logical at all. What Wheaton did to Monmouth should make absolutely no difference whatsoever when gauging Monmouth versus Hope. That's my whole point. Wheaton is clearly far superior to Monmouth, and I don't think you'd argue that Wheaton would trounce Hope as well, were the two teams to play. That's why Wheaton should be completely irrelevant with regard to estimating how the Scots stack up against Hope. USee didn't have anything good to say about the Scots, so there's no eyewitness info there for you to hang your hat on with regard to specific positives regarding the Scots.

If you were to say that the Dutchmen could be in trouble this season against the Scots because there was such a lopsided imbalance in Monmouth's favor last season, then that would make sense. If you were to say that the Dutchmen could be in trouble this season against the Scots because it entails a five-hour busride (one way) for the Dutchmen and a game on Monmouth's home field, then that would make sense, too. But to say that the Dutchmen could be in trouble this season against the Scots because the Scots got walloped by Wheaton ... well, that just doesn't make any sense at all. Sorry about that, and I'm really not trying to belabor this or to be an irritant about it. It's the fact that you otherwise do make good sense in your posts that has had me scratching my head over this.

[SpartanHouse]

I wanted to clear some things up here. Monmouth didn't play numerous starters in their scrimmage vs Wheaton.

On the defensive side of the ball: 2 starting DL (Including all region Thomas Lesnewski), 1 starting LB and both safties did not play. All are returning starters.

On the offensive side of the ball: both returning starters on the OL didn't play and their #1 WR didn't play. 

The score at half was 14-0 and Monmouth didn't play their "starters" in the 2nd half. Wheaton played their starting OL into the 2nd half.

There's no doubt Wheaton was the better team that day. I'm not disputing that. However, Monmouth didn't play 8 returning starters in a scrimmage one week away from Hope. Monmouth has 7 returning starters on each side of the ball. I believe they have a very strong team this year. Hopefully these two teams get to meet again this season.

[USee]

Looking at the the top 2 teams in the CCIW this year I think they both have the potential to make deep runs and both have question marks that could affect their ultimate place in the D3 order.

For North Central:

They return virtually everyone on offense including one of the best QB's in the country and an all conference running back. Their OL is intact and a veteran group. The big question on offense is their WR corps. Ryan Kuhl is an all CCIW player and potential all american. Hartema was injured last year and returns healthy, I am keen to see how he fits in and is used in the early season results. After that they have a few other returners with limited experience and a large group of newcomers. 2-3 of those guys will have to step up and be big contributors. The other issue on offense is the running game. They had 3 playmakers at WR and an efficient, playmaking QB last year which covered up what, inexplicably, was a lackluster ground attack. With the lack of depth and experience at WR this year NCC will have to be better in the running game than they were last year. I expect Jeff Thorne will have spent a lot of time in the ofseason analyzing this part of the offense and I would be surprised if NCC doesn't return to a bigger emphasis on an effective run game. They have the people for it.

On Defense the Cardinals have one of the best defensive fronts in the country. Led by Sora, Douds and Leohnard, they were one of the nations leaders in pressuring the QB. Their only question mark is DB where they lose 3 of the 4 starters. There are some good young players so I suspect this will be less of a concern than the WR position.

If NCC can get some playmaking ability at WR outside of Kuhl, can fix their running game, and fill the holes at DB without a drop off, they will contend in every game they play deep into the playoffs.