FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mr. Ypsi]

Wheaton must be really kicking themselves for losing to Millikin in the last minute.  Otherwise, they just won the AQ if NCC/IWU/Wheaton had all finished 7-1.  But at 8-2 (overall), they are virtually dead-meat.  Kind of a shame - if we had the D1 selection process, they would probably be in the post-season (two last minute losses to solid teams and a blowout of a then top-4 team), but by the D3 criteria I just can't see that they have any realistic chance at all.

[SpartanHouse]

As far as division 3 football...gotta be the most impressive win of the season so far.

Maybe not...anything can happen in rivalry games.

[thunderdog]

Wheaton must be really kicking themselves for losing to Millikin in the last minute.  Otherwise, they just won the AQ if NCC/IWU/Wheaton had all finished 7-1.  But at 8-2 (overall), they are virtually dead-meat.  Kind of a shame - if we had the D1 selection process, they would probably be in the post-season (two last minute losses to solid teams and a blowout of a then top-4 team), but by the D3 criteria I just can't see that they have any realistic chance at all.

Ypsi,

There's a ton of football to be played yet. Kinda early to assume IWU & NCC both finish 9-1... we could be looking at one of the craziest CCIW seasons we've ever seen. If you think IWU is just going to walk their way to 9-1 with Carthage and Millikin still on the schedule, I'd say you'd better think twice. Carthage controls their own destiny. I think they roll into B-Town with a huge chip on their shoulder... especially when you consider the very questionable pass interference call on Carthage (on 4th down) that kept the winning drive alive for IWU in 2016. Next Saturday, Carthage @ IWU is gonna be a dogfight!

Also, way too early to assume WC is "dead meat" in terms of a playoff birth... IMO.

On a separate note, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the CCIW is the 2nd best conference in the country this year, behind only the WIAC.

[thunderdog]

If injuries are what cost Wheaton the games against Illinois Wesleyan and Millikin, given the sizeable gap that was supposed to have existed between Wheaton and the two downstate teams when the season started, then I would venture to say that Wheaton was not a true top-five team to begin with. I'm well aware that Wheaton's starting lineup was absolutely loaded, and that there were some really outstanding players coming off the bench for the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance as well. But we sometimes lose sight of the fact that depth is an absolutely vital ingredient to being a successful team, in this sport more than any other because of the high attrition rate caused by injuries. If your two-deep has any holes in it, or if you don't have third-teamers who can step up and see at least intermittent game action without being repeatedly exposed by the opposition, then you most likely don't have the depth necessary to be successful deep into November, which is what being a top-five team is all about.

Wheaton played against NCC without the starting C Kyler Kregel, CB Tyler Sigler, DT Noah Spielman, OT Ben Pettway, WR Chase White, WR Adam Terrini, RB2 Stone Watson... that should shed some light on the incredible depth of this Wheaton Thunder football team

[thunder38]

That's as good as Wheaton has looked all year. I don't think anyone saw that coming. I thought the game would come down to the four points below so here's my follow-up.

Keys to tonight:

Wheaton
- find a way to get home on the pass rush early in the half or sit and play coverage for the rest of the night. Wheaton was successful in the playoff game last year at getting to Rutter early but Saturday's first half felt a lot like the first half of the regular season matchup last year where Rutter had whatever he wanted in the pocket. Wheaton did bring pressure a couple times on Saturday but couldn't get to him. If they can't get to him on NCC's first drive tonight, they'd be smarter to drop 8 and spy Rutter with Stevenson.

Wheaton opted to sit in coverage for much of the second half but perhaps most surprising was the ability for Wheaton to get pressure and traffic around Rutter without having to bring extra bodies. Wheaton's defensive line was great tonight, collapsing the pocket from the inside and not letting Rutter climb and deliver. That pressure got Rutter uncomfortable and quick to bail from the pocket. I also don't think NCC did their QB any favors with their early play calling. On 1st and 5 after Wheaton went up 21-13, NCC ran speed option left to no avail and put themselves back behind the chains. Rutter's interception tonight came on a rollout. I know he's athletic and an underrated runner, but Rutter's strength is to stand and deliver, which he was not able to do effectively tonight like he was on Saturday.

- Unlock Sola Olateju. With a wet track on Saturday night, Sola only had eight carries (38 yards) while Bruenig had 19 carries (78 yards). Sola is a volume runner who gets better as he goes and has had an impressive career against the Cardinals. Get the ground game going on the first drive and this game becomes a coin flip.

After 8 carries for 38 yards in the first half, Sola rolled for 82 yards on 14 carries in the second night. He was patient and explosive and ran with a purpose. His 29-yard scamper on the second drive that included an impressive juke of Warkenthien seemed to ignite him. Praise of Sola is empty without heaping tons of praise on the offensive line tonight. Andrew Jones got beat soundly on Saturday night by Billy Douds but responded in a big way tonight. His blocking opened up Sola's 8-yard touchdown and a couple of other big runs. Additionally, the pocket was clean for Curtis McWilliams all night, who looked like a completely different version of himself than we've seen all season. He was confident and accurate and was a star tonight for Wheaton.

North Central
- Ground and pound. NCC had whatever it wanted on the ground on Saturday night, taking advantage of a lighter defensive package by Wheaton trying to defend the pass. Continue to let Bruenig do his work out of spread formations.

Someone should put out an ABP for Austin Bruenig because he was nowhere to be found tonight. After a drop on the opening play of NCC's first drive tonight, Bruenig was a non-factor until a third down carry once the score was 42-20. He had just three carries for five yards this evening. No idea why NCC abandoned the run game tonight after it was so successful on Saturday, especially with Wheaton opting to play coverage instead of bring pressure. The Cardinal defense needed a break tonight but the offense didn't help them with quick drives and turnovers.

- Defending Spencer Peterson. The knock on Wheaton's Peterson Package all year has been that Peterson can be keyed because he doesn't hand the ball off. In his two plays on Saturday night, he handed off for a touchdown that was called back on a bad call on the hands the face, and he threw for a touchdown. There's plenty of other wrinkles to be had in that package that if Wheaton brings in Peterson, NCC's defense has to be more honest, which could open up room for the Peterson runs. If NCC can stop that look a couple of times, Wheaton may stay with its traditional offensive look which is a better matchup for the NCC defense.

This one proved to be a nonfactor. Wheaton's offense was firing on all cylinders so the Peterson package only saw a play or two, highlighted by a quarterback sneak third-down conversion.

Matchup to watch: Sharmore Clarke vs. Dallas McRae
NCC's freshman offensive guard is already one of the elite blockers in the conference. Dallas McRae is as impressive as any freshman defensive lineman in the country with his power and snap. These two each won a couple rounds on Saturday night but this matchup over the next three years and 30 minutes will be a lot of fun to watch for trench junkies.

Wheaton's D-line might've been the most important unit tonight, allowing the defense to not need extra bodies to get pressure. McRae and O'Connell were outstanding up the middle tonight.

[Gregory Sager]

If injuries are what cost Wheaton the games against Illinois Wesleyan and Millikin, given the sizeable gap that was supposed to have existed between Wheaton and the two downstate teams when the season started, then I would venture to say that Wheaton was not a true top-five team to begin with. I'm well aware that Wheaton's starting lineup was absolutely loaded, and that there were some really outstanding players coming off the bench for the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance as well. But we sometimes lose sight of the fact that depth is an absolutely vital ingredient to being a successful team, in this sport more than any other because of the high attrition rate caused by injuries. If your two-deep has any holes in it, or if you don't have third-teamers who can step up and see at least intermittent game action without being repeatedly exposed by the opposition, then you most likely don't have the depth necessary to be successful deep into November, which is what being a top-five team is all about.

Wheaton played against NCC without the starting C Kyler Kregel, CB Tyler Sigler, DT Noah Spielman, OT Ben Pettway, WR Chase White, WR Adam Terrini, RB2 Stone Watson... that should shed some light on the incredible depth of this Wheaton Thunder football team

For the record, I didn't say that Wheaton wasn't deep. I engaged in an if/then hypothetical in response to CardinalAlum's post:

Not sure I've ever seen less chatter before an NCC/Wheatie game.   This game should've been a game between two top 5 nationally ranked teams.   I have no doubt the turmoil the hazing scandal had a part but injuries have hit Wheaton hard.   Sounds like they may get some of those back this week so that's something to keep an eye on.   Wheaton will be ready to go and this will still be a great game and the Cards will have to be on their game to survive an always difficult place to play.  Cards have had their own injuries and the loss of WR Ryan Kuhl has been as big as any of them.   I've counted as many as 4 freshmen WR's in the game at a time.   They've stepped up and played well but they need to take another big step on Saturday against a very good defense.   I believe the Offensive Line for the Cards is the key to this game.  They struggled against the Wheaton front in the playoff loss last year.  They have hopefully learned from that and will be ready.   I'm expecting a hard hitting and close game.   Cards by 3

I wouldn't change anything that I wrote, because what I wrote about depth being a necessary ingredient of a top-five team is true. Wheaton's win tonight didn't change that; it simply proved that the if/then hypothetical didn't apply to the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance, because Wheaton has the requisite depth. Thus, the talk turns back to finding an alternative explanation as to why Wheaton lost two games to teams that it should have beaten.

(Perhaps CardinalAlum would like to return to his other guess that the hazing scandal had a part in those losses. I have to say that I consider that somewhat dubious, since there was a convincing victory over Elmhurst that took place between the announcement by the DuPage County SA's office that charges were being filed against the Wheaton Five and the eventual loss to Illinois Wesleyan. And, based upon postgame comments in this room by at least one Wheaton fan, it sounded like the team was using the opprobrium being directed at them by the public as a rallying point, and were thus circling the wagons, to use the cliché about putting adversity to good use that now seems to be associated with football more than with Westerns.)

[izzy stradlin]

Wheaton played against NCC without the starting C Kyler Kregel, CB Tyler Sigler, DT Noah Spielman, OT Ben Pettway, WR Chase White, WR Adam Terrini, RB2 Stone Watson... that should shed some light on the incredible depth of this Wheaton Thunder football team

For the record, I didn't say that Wheaton wasn't deep. I engaged in an if/then hypothetical in response to CardinalAlum's post:

Not sure I've ever seen less chatter before an NCC/Wheatie game.   This game should've been a game between two top 5 nationally ranked teams.   I have no doubt the turmoil the hazing scandal had a part but injuries have hit Wheaton hard.   Sounds like they may get some of those back this week so that's something to keep an eye on.   Wheaton will be ready to go and this will still be a great game and the Cards will have to be on their game to survive an always difficult place to play.  Cards have had their own injuries and the loss of WR Ryan Kuhl has been as big as any of them.   I've counted as many as 4 freshmen WR's in the game at a time.   They've stepped up and played well but they need to take another big step on Saturday against a very good defense.   I believe the Offensive Line for the Cards is the key to this game.  They struggled against the Wheaton front in the playoff loss last year.  They have hopefully learned from that and will be ready.   I'm expecting a hard hitting and close game.   Cards by 3

I wouldn't change anything that I wrote, because what I wrote about depth being a necessary ingredient of a top-five team is true. Wheaton's win tonight didn't change that; it simply proved that the if/then hypothetical didn't apply to the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance, because Wheaton has the requisite depth. Thus, the talk turns back to finding an alternative explanation as to why Wheaton lost two games to teams that it should have beaten.

(Perhaps CardinalAlum would like to return to his other guess that the hazing scandal had a part in those losses. I have to say that I consider that somewhat dubious, since there was a convincing victory over Elmhurst that took place between the announcement by the DuPage County SA's office that charges were being filed against the Wheaton Five and the eventual loss to Illinois Wesleyan. And, based upon postgame comments in this room by at least one Wheaton fan, it sounded like the team was using the opprobrium being directed at them by the public as a rallying point, and were thus circling the wagons, to use the cliché about putting adversity to good use that now seems to be associated with football more than with Westerns.)

I think they definitely tried to rally around the public scrutiny at first but it ended up have a draining emotional and physical impact starting with their head coach. USee could probably give more details but I believe he has now stopped posting out of respect to to the coaches and the program he is close to.  Here are Mike Swider's post-game comments from tonight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLTt4tHjQhw

I think you can hear obvious undertones here that go way beyond this game.   

I still believe this is the deepest, most talented roster Wheaton has had in their program's history.  They probably aren't going to the playoffs.  That's okay.  It was fun winning back the bell tonight.  I look forward to watching Broc Rutter and NCC represent the CCIW well.  Tough result for him tonight but that kid is still a gamer.

[izzy stradlin]

I thought Jesse Scott really did a great job of varying up his playcalling Monday.  Against IWU it was run, run, 3rd and short Peterson run, 3rd and long McWilliams pass.  Made it really hard for the QBs to execute. 

Wheaton was way less predictable against NCC.  Spencer Peterson throwing the ball and handing off to Sola.  McWilliams throwing on a variety of downs and distances giving the OL a better chance to protect him.  I know that Jesse moved from the sideline to calling the plays from the booth after the IWU game and this seems to have helped. 

[AndOne]

I bet the delay favored Wheaton,  so it allowed them to see what was working/not working,  but I think North Central still wins this game late.  (My two cents)

I'm going to disagree.  North Central had controlled play for 25 minutes or so and held a 13-0 lead.  Wheaton, right before half, mounts a drive sticks it into the end zone and cuts the lead to 13-7 and grabs the momentum.  The Crusaders are fired up on the field and on the sideline.  Momentum (to quote Keith Jackson) "just took off a white jersey and put on a blue one".  From what I could hear on the internet, the rain soaked crowd (that remained) had been reenergized.  And, Wheaton is receiving the second half kickoff.  Not great for the Cards.

However, the skies opened up, everyone goes home and we start again on Monday.  Momentum carry over?  I don't think so.  Now we play a jamboree with NCC spotted six points.  I'll take it.  Maybe we could get a mulligan once a year that if a game starts going south  on the road, you can stop it, take two days off to regroup and start from the same spot.

I would like to hear some other takes on who it favors.

I, too, sense the delay will favor the Cards. Much do to the momentum factor as the weather, rather than the Cardinals, snatched it from Wheaton. Now old mo is up for grabs again. Much will depend on the opening series for both teams. Can WC take the 2nd half kickoff, march into NCC territory and put some points on the board, or can NCC stop them and then add to their current 6 point advantage.
Realizing the first half ended with Wheaton in possession of the mo factor, did any NCCer make a Jason Heyward type speech in the interim?
Has NCC learned that when WC inserts Peterson at QB, it doesn't automatically signal a run??

And the answer to the the highlighted portion of the above question is a resounding YES...........again, and again, and again, and again, and again!

[AndOne]

Everything went splendidly for NCC in Wheaton last evening...................................right up until the time they got off the bus. 


QUESTION ------> What do Daniel Day Simpson and the NCC pass defense have in common?










ANSWER --------> Whereabouts unknown!

[AndOne]

Wheaton must be really kicking themselves for losing to Millikin in the last minute.  Otherwise, they just won the AQ if NCC/IWU/Wheaton had all finished 7-1.  But at 8-2 (overall), they are virtually dead-meat.  Kind of a shame - if we had the D1 selection process, they would probably be in the post-season (two last minute losses to solid teams and a blowout of a then top-4 team), but by the D3 criteria I just can't see that they have any realistic chance at all.

Ypsi,

There's a ton of football to be played yet. 1. Kinda early to assume IWU & NCC both finish 9-1 ...we could be looking at one of the craziest CCIW seasons we've ever seen. If you think IWU is just going to walk their way to 9-1 with Carthage and Millikin still on the schedule, I'd say you'd better think twice. Carthage controls their own destiny. I think they roll into B-Town with a huge chip on their shoulder... especially when you consider the very questionable pass interference call on Carthage (on 4th down) that kept the winning drive alive for IWU in 2016. Next Saturday, Carthage @ IWU is gonna be a dogfight!

2. Also, way too early to assume WC is "dead meat" in terms of a playoff birth... IMO.

On a separate note, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the CCIW is the 2nd best conference in the country this year, behind only the WIAC.

1. Absolutely correct.
2. If WC isn't already out of the playoffs, it's hopes are on it's deathbed.

[lmitzel]

Wheaton must be really kicking themselves for losing to Millikin in the last minute.  Otherwise, they just won the AQ if NCC/IWU/Wheaton had all finished 7-1.  But at 8-2 (overall), they are virtually dead-meat.  Kind of a shame - if we had the D1 selection process, they would probably be in the post-season (two last minute losses to solid teams and a blowout of a then top-4 team), but by the D3 criteria I just can't see that they have any realistic chance at all.

Ypsi,

There's a ton of football to be played yet. 1. Kinda early to assume IWU & NCC both finish 9-1 ...we could be looking at one of the craziest CCIW seasons we've ever seen. If you think IWU is just going to walk their way to 9-1 with Carthage and Millikin still on the schedule, I'd say you'd better think twice. Carthage controls their own destiny. I think they roll into B-Town with a huge chip on their shoulder... especially when you consider the very questionable pass interference call on Carthage (on 4th down) that kept the winning drive alive for IWU in 2016. Next Saturday, Carthage @ IWU is gonna be a dogfight!

2. Also, way too early to assume WC is "dead meat" in terms of a playoff birth... IMO.

On a separate note, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the CCIW is the 2nd best conference in the country this year, behind only the WIAC.

1. Absolutely correct.
2. If WC isn't already out of the playoffs, it's hopes are on it's deathbed.

Considering there are only five at large spots, a two-loss Wheaton team, even with a win against the potential CCIW AQ team in North Central, is probably not making it.

[CardinalAlum]

All I can say is WOW.  That was completely unexpected.  North Central won the pre game cheer and that's about it last night.   I can't point to a whole lot of positive but Wheaton clearly did their homework and took advantage of mismatches they found in their adjustments.  Wheaton appeared to be ok with taking away Breunig and letting Rutter run the ball, which is the last thing the Cards want to do exposing Rutter to open field shots.   As mentioned above, Wheaton defensive line did a great job collapsing the pocket and making the ball come out quick.   Our defense against the run and tacking were less than desirable.   Kudos to the Thunder.  That was well played by them.  We still control the AQ but there's little room for error and a tough Carthage team left on the schedule.

[79jaybird]

I assumed the delay would favor Wheaton, but I certainly didn't see this coming. I still thought NC would prevail in the 4th.   A lot can happen for all teams (alive or dead) the rest of the season.  Take it week-to-week.   Those of us who've played, know all too well, that once you start overlooking an opponent,  "disaster" can happen.   Great resiliency by Wheaton and Coaching/Adjustments  (hint Elmhurst)  after getting time from mother nature,  made a big difference.

[thunderdog]

Let's Roll, Thunder!

Similar to the way we had IWU fans rooting for the Thunder (for every other reason other than self-serving interests, I'm sure) ... Wheaton fans will return the favor by rooting for the Carthage Red Men this Saturday in Bloomington 

From an opponents perspective, I'm a bit baffled why Carthage doesn't make #20 Soph RB Jamel Davis (6'1" 219) their featured back. His performance against Augie when he went for 177 yards on 20 carries & 3 TD's shows what he's capable of when given 20+ carries. Not trying to downplay the effectiveness of #35 Jr Lafayette McGary, (5'8" 195), who's also a talented back, but it's Davis that really scares me with his combination of power & speed.

I expect a defensive slugfest, battle for field position type of game. 2 very talented defenses that are equally matched. I'd give IWU the edge on offense because of the playmaking ability of QB Brandon Bauer and the emergence of RB Morgan Alexander (who's averaging 107 yards/game). Carthage will need steady, turnover-free QB play from #5 Kyle Friberg to leave B-Town with a W.