FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

As it turns out, the way that the regular posters in the Pool C room describe the playoff scenario makes it sound as though the football committee defines the word "results" differently than how the word is defined by the committees in other sports ... so it may be that scoring margin is something that the football committee accepts as valid within two of the five criteria. (Pat can probably speak more to that issue.) But it that's true, then how does one explain USee's point about all of those OAC runners-up getting eviscerated by Mount Union and still making the playoff field?

[USee]

As it turns out, the way that the regular posters in the Pool C room describe the playoff scenario makes it sound as though the football committee defines the word "results" differently than how the word is defined by the committees in other sports ... so it may be that scoring margin is something that the football committee accepts as valid within two of the five criteria. (Pat can probably speak more to that issue.) But it that's true, then how does one explain USee's point about all of those OAC runners-up getting eviscerated by Mount Union and still making the playoff field?

To be fair, the worst loss to MUC in the regular season by an OAC runner up that still made the playoffs was 37 pts and the average margin of defeat was around 24 pts. 46 points is a lot worse but whose counting.....

[Pat Coleman]

Yes, I do think "results" includes a small amount of scoring margin, certainly enough to make losing by 46 distinguishable from losing by 13. But losing to Mount Union by 20-plus is not the same as losing to Wittenberg by 46.

[thunderdog]

As it turns out, the way that the regular posters in the Pool C room describe the playoff scenario makes it sound as though the football committee defines the word "results" differently than how the word is defined by the committees in other sports ... so it may be that scoring margin is something that the football committee accepts as valid within two of the five criteria. (Pat can probably speak more to that issue.) But it that's true, then how does one explain USee's point about all of those OAC runners-up getting eviscerated by Mount Union and still making the playoff field?

Pretty simple answer. Mount Union. 12 National Championships. Several more Runners-Up. Several more Semi-Finals appearances... we all know the #'s (or thereabouts). It's pretty rational and sane to give a 1-loss OAC team the benefit of the doubt, even if that loss is in the 20-35 point range to UMU, considering UMU typically wins many playoff games by those margins if not more.

[Gregory Sager]

Yes, I do think "results" includes a small amount of scoring margin, certainly enough to make losing by 46 distinguishable from losing by 13. But losing to Mount Union by 20-plus is not the same as losing to Wittenberg by 46.

This fascinates me, because it means that the football committee takes a completely different approach to the selection and seeding process than do the other sports -- or at least the three sports whose selection and seeding processes I've followed for years (men's soccer, men's basketball, and baseball), but likely the other ball sports as well. And, in retrospect, I can see why the football committee would interpret the word "results" differently, given how tiny the football schedule is in comparison to the other ball sports and how little crossover there is between leagues. The committee probably grasps at straws to come up with any sort of distinguishing criteria, or aspects of a single criterion, upon which to hang their hats and make a decision between, say, a 9-1 team in Delaware with a 1-1 RvR and a 9-1 team in Wisconsin with a 1-1 RvR. So why not parse the word "results" more broadly than your peers in the other sports and make it include margin as well as outcome?

Of course, the danger in doing it that way is that it's an open invitation to coaches to run up the score, especially against particular opponents.

[AndOne]

If IWU defeats Millikin Saturday, which they should, then NC and IWU would both end the season 9-1 and both should end up playing in the post season.  However, if MU should happen to upset IWU, then there would be a 3-way tie for 2nd between MU, IWU, and Wheaton.  Question:  Since MU beat both of them, should/would they be considered for an at-large bid?

Hambo,

Good question. Should MU be considered? Yes. Will they? Probably not. IMO, if Millikin beats IWU, causing a 3 way tie for 2nd place, all teams sitting at 8-2, this would result in the CCIW getting shut-out completely of the pool C bids. As things stand right now, IWU finishing 9-1, still needs help from Wabash (beating DePauw).

The RACs seem to prefer conferences where there's an undefeated champion and a 1 loss 2nd place team. That statement is not a fact by any means, it's just my opinion. It's the only explanation for why DePauw sits ahead of IWU currently in the North Regionals. I'd like to see another example of a team, any team, that doesn't get punished for a 6-52 beat-down to the conference champ. DePauw has gotten a complete pass for the loss, it's crazy. Another example of the RAC's preference for conferences that finish with an undefeated champ and a 1-loss 2nd place team is out West, where 8-1 Lake Forest sits 9th in the region. 2 teams from the Midwest Conference? For real?

In fact, if Millikin beats IWU and Wabash beats DePauw, I think this would mean the North region as a whole wouldn't get a single pool C bid. All the contenders would have 2 losses. Wabash, DePauw, Hope, Millikin, IWU, and Wheaton. We could all argue till we're blue in the face over the order of these teams, but there are too many potential undefeated and 1-loss teams in the East (Springfield & Frostburg St) and the South (Hardin-Simmons, Case Western Reserve, Centre) to think a 2-loss North region team would get a pool C under these circumstances.

Thunderdog,

Thanks for the explanation. That stuff can be confusing. If things work out as in your last paragraph above, I think you are right about no Pool C teams from the North. Two losses is too many.

[thunderdog]

Thunderdog,

Thanks for the explanation. That stuff can be confusing. If things work out as in your last paragraph above, I think you are right about no Pool C teams from the North. Two losses is too many.

To quote a Chic-Fil-A employee, "my pleasure", AndOne. If you haven't gone to the "General Football" section and then "2017 Pool C" thread, I'd encourage you to do so. Great discussion lead by wally_wabash, Hansen Rankings, Dave 'd-mac' McHugh, USee, and others about all the possibilities out there.

[Pat Coleman]

Yes, I do think "results" includes a small amount of scoring margin, certainly enough to make losing by 46 distinguishable from losing by 13. But losing to Mount Union by 20-plus is not the same as losing to Wittenberg by 46.

This fascinates me, because it means that the football committee takes a completely different approach to the selection and seeding process than do the other sports -- or at least the three sports whose selection and seeding processes I've followed for years (men's soccer, men's basketball, and baseball), but likely the other ball sports as well. And, in retrospect, I can see why the football committee would interpret the word "results" differently, given how tiny the football schedule is in comparison to the other ball sports and how little crossover there is between leagues. The committee probably grasps at straws to come up with any sort of distinguishing criteria, or aspects of a single criterion, upon which to hang their hats and make a decision between, say, a 9-1 team in Delaware with a 1-1 RvR and a 9-1 team in Wisconsin with a 1-1 RvR. So why not parse the word "results" more broadly than your peers in the other sports and make it include margin as well as outcome?

Of course, the danger in doing it that way is that it's an open invitation to coaches to run up the score, especially against particular opponents.

Exactly -- it's a 10-game schedule as opposed to 18 or 25 or 40 and ... yeah.

I don't think there's any value to winning by 40 vs. 56 vs. 70 but we've always had scores like that late in the season, under the old system as well.

[cciwman]

When do the brackets get released on Sunday?  Is there an official release show or process?

[AndOne]

Nico Stepina is having a year that puts him in the POY conversation. And Jordan Smith is the best WR in the league, by a pretty good margin. Stepina (aided by a bad call on the final drive  ) are the reason Millikin beat Wheaton. The Big Blue have made dramatic strides in their program in the last two years and they are a very young team.

POY CONVERSATION

Offense

MU's Nico Stepina has indeed had a super year. However, NCC's Broc Rutter has only 68 fewer passing yards, ranks higher in terms of passing efficiency, and is very likely about to lead his team to the conference championship and the conference AQ.
And Stepina's MU teammate, Jordan Smith, is a great receiver who leads in receiving yards per game and, by a wide margin, in TDs.
However, it appears that the most versatile, all-around player might very well be NCC's Austin Breunig. Going into the final conference game, he leads the CCIW in rushing yards with 140 more than his closest competitor. He has a 444 yard lead in all-purpose yards. He has more receiving yards than any other RB in the conference, and is the highest ranked player, other than a QB, in total offense.

Defense

My impression is that the best defensive player in the conference may very well be NPU's Chaun Maiava. The guy literally seems to be everywhere at the same time. He leads the conference in both total tackles, and fumbles forced When NPU played NCC this year you heard his name over and over on the loudspeaker as making the tackle. It shouldn't, but the question arises as to whether NPU's place in the standings will hurt his chances.
Should the award not go to Maiava, two other superlative defenders who would be very worthy of the award are Jordan Hassan of IWU, and Wheaton's Eric Stevenson. They currently rank 2nd and 3rd respectively in total tackles. Both impressed me both in games I attended, and in watching them via streamed games.
Also, because a game can quickly turn on a sack or TFL, I think Wheaton's Chase Greenlee, the leader in both categories, merits consideration.

[USee]

Nico Stepina is having a year that puts him in the POY conversation. And Jordan Smith is the best WR in the league, by a pretty good margin. Stepina (aided by a bad call on the final drive  ) are the reason Millikin beat Wheaton. The Big Blue have made dramatic strides in their program in the last two years and they are a very young team.

POY CONVERSATION

Offense

MU's Nico Stepina has indeed had a super year. However, NCC's Broc Rutter has only 68 fewer passing yards, ranks higher in terms of passing efficiency, and is very likely about to lead his team to the conference championship and the conference AQ.
And Stepina's MU teammate, Jordan Smith, is a great receiver who leads in receiving yards per game and, by a wide margin, in TDs.
However, it appears that the most versatile, all-around player might very well be NCC's Austin Breunig. Going into the final conference game, he leads the CCIW in rushing yards with 140 more than his closest competitor. He has a 444 yard lead in all-purpose yards. He has more receiving yards than any other RB in the conference, and is the highest ranked player, other than a QB, in total offense.

Defense

My impression is that the best defensive player in the conference may very well be NPU's Chaun Maiava. The guy literally seems to be everywhere at the same time. He leads the conference in both total tackles, and fumbles forced When NPU played NCC this year you heard his name over and over on the loudspeaker as making the tackle. It shouldn't, but the question arises as to whether NPU's place in the standings will hurt his chances.
Should the award not go to Maiava, two other superlative defenders who would be very worthy of the award are Jordan Hassan of IWU, and Wheaton's Eric Stevenson. They currently rank 2nd and 3rd respectively in total tackles. Both impressed me both in games I attended, and in watching them via streamed games.
Also, because a game can quickly turn on a sack or TFL, I think Wheaton's Chase Greenlee, the leader in both categories, merits consideration.

I don't think there is any kind of meaningful separation between Bruenig and Sola Olateju given Olateju averaged 7.1 ypc vs Bruenig's 5.9 and Bruenig has 50 more carries than Olateju. Similarly, while Stepina has more yds per game, Td's, attempts and overall yds, Rutter has a much better completion percentage and efficiency. I think this award is Broc Rutter's to lose.

If I had a vote I would give it to Freshman OG Sharmore Clark. I think he single handedly is the reason Bruenig has had a revival this year. He is the most physical OL I have seen in D3 this year. To me he is to the CCIW what Broc Rutter was last year.

On Defense I would guess its from among these players:

Stevenson, Greenlee
Hassan, IWU (Eric Dubose and Chance Hilliard are the reason he is in this spot)
Garner, Carthage
Maiava, NPU

The defensive player is going to be a split vote as several of these coaches think they have the best defense. On offense I would be surprised if it goes to anyone but Rutter. Stepina has a chance if Millikin wins Saturday but it's an outside shot at best IMO.

[Pat Coleman]

When do the brackets get released on Sunday?  Is there an official release show or process?

Yes, there's a release show, and it's at 4:30 p.m. CT on Sunday. We'll have links on the front page of D3football.com.

[AndOne]

Excellent. Thanks Pat!

[Gregory Sager]

Defense

My impression is that the best defensive player in the conference may very well be NPU's Chaun Maiava. The guy literally seems to be everywhere at the same time. He leads the conference in both total tackles, and fumbles forced When NPU played NCC this year you heard his name over and over on the loudspeaker as making the tackle. It shouldn't, but the question arises as to whether NPU's place in the standings will hurt his chances.
Should the award not go to Maiava, two other superlative defenders who would be very worthy of the award are Jordan Hassan of IWU, and Wheaton's Eric Stevenson. They currently rank 2nd and 3rd respectively in total tackles. Both impressed me both in games I attended, and in watching them via streamed games.
Also, because a game can quickly turn on a sack or TFL, I think Wheaton's Chase Greenlee, the leader in both categories, merits consideration.

I freely admit that I'm biased, but I haven't seen a better defensive player this year than Chaun Maiava. However, I don't think that he is going to win the award, because I don't think that the coaches will award one of the POYs to a player from a second-division team. My money's on Jordan Hassan of Illinois Wesleyan. That would dovetail nicely in their minds with giving the OPOY to either Rutter or Bruenig from North Central.

[AndOne]

Nico Stepina is having a year that puts him in the POY conversation. And Jordan Smith is the best WR in the league, by a pretty good margin. Stepina (aided by a bad call on the final drive  ) are the reason Millikin beat Wheaton. The Big Blue have made dramatic strides in their program in the last two years and they are a very young team.

POY CONVERSATION

Offense

MU's Nico Stepina has indeed had a super year. However, NCC's Broc Rutter has only 68 fewer passing yards, ranks higher in terms of passing efficiency, and is very likely about to lead his team to the conference championship and the conference AQ.
And Stepina's MU teammate, Jordan Smith, is a great receiver who leads in receiving yards per game and, by a wide margin, in TDs.
However, it appears that the most versatile, all-around player might very well be NCC's Austin Breunig. Going into the final conference game, he leads the CCIW in rushing yards with 140 more than his closest competitor. He has a 444 yard lead in all-purpose yards. He has more receiving yards than any other RB in the conference, and is the highest ranked player, other than a QB, in total offense.

Defense

My impression is that the best defensive player in the conference may very well be NPU's Chaun Maiava. The guy literally seems to be everywhere at the same time. He leads the conference in both total tackles, and fumbles forced When NPU played NCC this year you heard his name over and over on the loudspeaker as making the tackle. It shouldn't, but the question arises as to whether NPU's place in the standings will hurt his chances.
Should the award not go to Maiava, two other superlative defenders who would be very worthy of the award are Jordan Hassan of IWU, and Wheaton's Eric Stevenson. They currently rank 2nd and 3rd respectively in total tackles. Both impressed me both in games I attended, and in watching them via streamed games.
Also, because a game can quickly turn on a sack or TFL, I think Wheaton's Chase Greenlee, the leader in both categories, merits consideration.

I don't think there is any kind of meaningful separation between Bruenig and Sola Olateju given Olateju averaged 7.1 ypc vs Bruenig's 5.9 and Bruenig has 50 more carries than Olateju. Similarly, while Stepina has more yds per game, Td's, attempts and overall yds, Rutter has a much better completion percentage and efficiency. I think this award is Broc Rutter's to lose.

If I had a vote I would give it to Freshman OG Sharmore Clark. I think he single handedly is the reason Bruenig has had a revival this year. He is the most physical OL I have seen in D3 this year. To me he is to the CCIW what Broc Rutter was last year.

On Defense I would guess its from among these players:

Stevenson, Greenlee
Hassan, IWU (Eric Dubose and Chance Hilliard are the reason he is in this spot)
Garner, Carthage
Maiava, NPU

The defensive player is going to be a split vote as several of these coaches think they have the best defense. On offense I would be surprised if it goes to anyone but Rutter. Stepina has a chance if Millikin wins Saturday but it's an outside shot at best IMO.

Not that he is even close to slow by any means, but I think Olateju is the more powerful/punishing runner, and a little better going inside, while Breunig is a little less powerful but quicker/faster with more ability to get outside and turn the corner. What makes each so good is that they are both better at what they do 2nd best that most players are at what they do best -- Olateju being able to get outside better than most and Breunig having little trouble going off tackle.
I think the separation between the two, comes with Breunig's pass catching ability, especially his ability to get downfield as opposed to just being the target on swings and screens.
As above, this might be a case of two top RBs basically canceling each other out, leaving Rutter as a clear favorite over Stepina.

Defensively, they're 4 or 5 wide entering the stretch so whoever makes the biggest play/biggest stop/game changing play on the final weekend might edge out the competition by a nose.

I think I like Maiava a little more than the others because it seems, at least to me, that he doesn't have as much help as the other guys do and he has to produce more of the finished product on his own.