FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[devildog29]

Q, I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head.  Tuition keeps going up and up, which is also causing Norm Eash to lose out on recruits he may have picked up 10 years ago.  I don't know the exact numbers today, but I think tuitiion is up to around $28,000+ a year now.  While the IWU alumni association is extremely generous in its gifting to the school for grants, one thing is for sure, there is absolutely no "funny money" anywhere in the coffers to help out athletes to pay for school.  They get the same treatment as everyone else who applies.  All of which leads to the fact that the football team just isn't getting the "studs" like they used to.

[HughJass]

DD29,

I think the same applies for augie.  Their tuition is right up there with IWU and it may even be 30K.  Pesonally I think that is where a lot of talent is washed away.  Yeah the kids want to play for competitive schools but not when the tuition is putting a hole in the parents wallet. 

[Mugsy]

Wheaton tuition would be up with IWU, Augie, etc... if not for alumni giving.  Wheaton is about $5K less due to alumni giving.

My undergrad was Wheaton, but my graduate degree was from NCC.  The NCC alumni magazine lists the tuition of each CCIW school.  Oddly enough, Wheaton is the 2nd or 3rd least expensive school to attend in the CCIW.  I'll get the actual figures tonight when I get home from work, but I believe it is IWU, Augie, and North Park in the top 3.

[Mugsy]

Oh, and just so there isn't any misunderstanding... it is alumni giving to the school, NOT the student or athlete directly!

[Mugsy]

Despite all the early concern about the level of play by the CCIW in non-conference play, we still need to remember they are 10 - 3 so far.  Not too shabby!  Just not doing it in convincing manner...

Could be like the IBC conference... 1-12 so far.  OUCH!
Or the Independent schools... 5-24.  Yuck.

[markerickson]

I wouldn't focus too much blame on increased academic requirements for IWU's "decline."  Research reveals that schools across the country consistently accept student athletes who have lower academic qualifications than their non-student athlete peers.

Regarding tuition, recent endowment numbers from The Chronicle for Higher Education reveal that Wheaton has $271 million and IWU has $153 million.  These were the only two CCIW schools whose endowment exceeded $150.  There were a total of 255 postsecondary institutions that met the threshold.  Too bad schools don't decrease tuition with the largesse.

[Mugsy]

markerickson,

"Too bad schools don't decrease tuition with the largesse."

I've just stated that Wheaton has a lower tuition because of alumni giving... about $5K less.

In addition, careful on generalizing that schools consistently accept student athletes who have lower academic qualifications.  While many, many schools may, not all do... especially smaller D3 schools where academics still holds more importance than athletics. 

I know for a fact from my time as a coach at Wheaton, that the football only received a few (2-4) exemptions where the player had lower qualifications (and it was NOT markedly lower...).  These players missed by just a bit on their ACT score or their class ranking was a bit lower.  Players with significantly lower marks did NOT qualify for these exemptions.  Of the players who got into Wheaton in this manner, 95% graduated in 4 years.

However, I do not know if this is still allowed by the admissions department at Wheaton.

[markerickson]

Mugsy wrote "I know it was probably 1979 at best, because [North Park] haven't even won more than 2 games since then!"  Wow.  You really are out of touch.

The football team won three games at least twice when I was an undergrad there in the 1980s.  Also, during the Love era, NP went 4-4-1 in one season.

[Mugsy]

markerickson,

Ok.  I was mistaken on the last time NP won more than 2 games in a year.  I failed to look at the composite schedule.  I looked at just the CCIW schedules only.  Check the year by year records by team on the CCIW website (www.cciw.org) and you'll see just how long it has been since NPU won 2 conference games!

I failed to factor in NPU lame non-conference schedules, which accounts for an overwhelming percentage of their actual victories.

I stand by my view that just because I can't name the last time NPU won 2 staight games to start a year doesn't translate to being out of touch, lacking perspective, etc...  If that were the case, 99% of the CCIW board would be guilty of being ignorant and unworthy of commenting on anything related to CCIW football.  It means that I'm not a expert on all facets of NPU football.  Oh well...

[Mugsy]

markerickson,
btw... you still haven't answered your own question.  When was the last time NP won 2 straight games to start a season?

[79jaybird]

Nice win for Elmhurst, however it is concordia and they are the caliber of UW-Eau Claire or Central.  EC should get a good test from UC.  Good weekend for the CCIW schools, congrats to all.

[79jaybird]

Uh, that should be aren't  not are.   

[devildog29]

markerickson, as mugsy already stated, while across the board on AVERAGE, schools accept lower qualified students to play athletics, in order to come up with AVERAGE, some have to be below that average, and some have to be above that average.  as mugsy said, where 10 years ago, the football team may have received 2-4 exceptions to somebody just below the acceptance level, iwu is no longer getting those exceptions.  i played in the mid 90's when we were 1st or 2nd in the conference all 4 years i was there.  i know of a few teammates who were important members of the team who would not be accepted to the school by today's standards.  it is important to consider that in the late 90's, iwu went from being ranked as a regional school academically to a national school.  as such, to increase national ranking they must be more selective in admissions.  iwu is currently the 2nd most selective liberal arts school in the state behind only northwestern.  so, when you couple tougher standards with a 28-30k tuition, the school just isn't getting the same caliber of recruits it used to.  of course, norm eash's challenge now is to figure out how to overcome those issues, but that's not something that has an easy solution.  if a recruit simply cannot afford the school, there is nothing norm eash can do about it.

[devildog29]

and for all of you augie alum/fans out there, yes, i know you can say the same thing about augie being tougher and more expensive now too.  and my response is that augie has also suffered from down recruiting in football over the last few years because of it. 

[markdamaker40]

I agree that tution is getting in the way a getting quality kids but that is when the administration must work with the school to get that player in here whether it is getting him more money and then giving the student work study hours to help pay.  I think that if the kid really wants to go to the school then they will go there.  If IWU thinks their quality of football is down do to rising tution they need to look at their record in conference the past three years they have not had a winning record (2001 last time) maybe thats why they aren't getting the players they want.