FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[CardinalAlum]

A great season team can still upset a great program team. You have to start somewhere to build. The elite players want to play for a championship, if you can show it is possible, you draw more elite players. Nothing like a national championship to boost recruitment. That is what builds the great programs. Every year it is repeated makes it that much easier to repeat it.

Absolutely a great season team can!  I would put NCC 2019 in that category.  Like USee said, another deep run possibly puts them in the mention of the UWW, MTU, UMHB teams.  NCC is hopefully built for continuing their success as the administration, athletic department and alumni have bought in and bring big support to the program.   

[kiko]

A great season team can still upset a great program team. You have to start somewhere to build. The elite players want to play for a championship, if you can show it is possible, you draw more elite players. Nothing like a national championship to boost recruitment. That is what builds the great programs. Every year it is repeated makes it that much easier to repeat it.

Of course.  And sometimes it is, as an individual game, not even an upset.  But those games are exceptionally rare.

What this means is that the great-season-team will be at best in the same room, briefly, as the big dogs.  They're still sitting at the kids table when the food comes out.  There's a lot of chatter about how the gap has closed, and yet I look at my bracket and still see Whitewater and Mount alive, undefeated, and barely tested this year.

To add some context: Mount Union has lost exactly four games to teams not named Whitewater or Mary Hardin-Baylor since 2000.  St. John beat them in 2003; Ohio Northern in 2005; John Carroll in 2016; North Central in 2019.  In a two decade timespan, you can count them on one hand.  And nobody, aside from the Warhawks (six times) and Cru (three times), has done it twice.  It's thousandaires and billionaires.

To continue the analogy, North Central gets to stay for dessert, for now, based on its wins in 2019 and its continued success so far this year.  Everybody else this side of Mary Hardin-Baylor is in the kitchen helping with the dishes or pulling the cars around.  NCC has a rare opportunity to ascend beyond "huh, that was the weird year where someone else won".  As an alum, I hope the Cardinals take advantage and start to change the discussion.  But I don't find conversations to be especially serious if they are suggesting that teams stringing together a couple of playoff wins against other competition have proven anything relative to the programs in Alliance and Southeastern Wisconsin, especially when we have a two-decade long track record that suggests otherwise.

[kiko]

There's a difference between a great season and a great program.

That's worth using as a fixed quote at the bottom of your posts, kiko.

That's a slippery slope.  I add one of those and the next thing you know, I wake up to find I have an avatar, a mortgage, 2.5 kids, ... 

[bleedpurple]

A great season team can still upset a great program team. You have to start somewhere to build. The elite players want to play for a championship, if you can show it is possible, you draw more elite players. Nothing like a national championship to boost recruitment. That is what builds the great programs. Every year it is repeated makes it that much easier to repeat it.

Of course.  And sometimes it is, as an individual game, not even an upset.  But those games are exceptionally rare.

What this means is that the great-season-team will be at best in the same room, briefly, as the big dogs.  They're still sitting at the kids table when the food comes out.  There's a lot of chatter about how the gap has closed, and yet I look at my bracket and still see Whitewater and Mount alive, undefeated, and barely tested this year.

To add some context: Mount Union has lost exactly four games to teams not named Whitewater or Mary Hardin-Baylor since 2000.  St. John beat them in 2003; Ohio Northern in 2005; John Carroll in 2016; North Central in 2019.  In a two decade timespan, you can count them on one hand.  And nobody, aside from the Warhawks (six times) and Cru (three times), has done it twice.  It's thousandaires and billionaires.

To continue the analogy, North Central gets to stay for dessert, for now, based on its wins in 2019 and its continued success so far this year.  Everybody else this side of Mary Hardin-Baylor is in the kitchen helping with the dishes or pulling the cars around.  NCC has a rare opportunity to ascend beyond "huh, that was the weird year where someone else won".  As an alum, I hope the Cardinals take advantage and start to change the discussion.  But I don't find conversations to be especially serious if they are suggesting that teams stringing together a couple of playoff wins against other competition have proven anything relative to the programs in Alliance and Southeastern Wisconsin, especially when we have a two-decade long track record that suggests otherwise.

I like the way you think, Kiko. Very refreshing in a culture of rapid-anointing and microwave crowning. I would suggest perhaps even more patience in terms of declaring a program to be among the purples.  If NCC goes back to back, that would be very impressive and they will obviously be in the Stagg Bowl discussion for the foreseeable future. However, I think the true test of their program will be beyond the playing days of Greenfield, Kamienski, et al.  If they can go to Stagg Bowls once those studs are done, then we might have to talk about the purple and red elite programs. Until then, we can certainly say hats off to NCC for putting together an incredibly talented team for a couple of years.

[SpartanHouse]

News from Decatur:

https://herald-review.com/sports/college/millikin/watch-now-millikin-head-football-coach-dan-gritti-leaving-program-after-six-seasons/article_33c8dc8d-558e-5164-b0af-0c2f5de4c6cd.html

They would be VERY wise to reach out to Derrick Leonard at Rochester HS.

Have you ever been to Decatur?

Yes.
Derrick would recruit south of I80 and would do wonders there.

[New Tradition]

A great season team can still upset a great program team. You have to start somewhere to build. The elite players want to play for a championship, if you can show it is possible, you draw more elite players. Nothing like a national championship to boost recruitment. That is what builds the great programs. Every year it is repeated makes it that much easier to repeat it.

Of course.  And sometimes it is, as an individual game, not even an upset.  But those games are exceptionally rare.

What this means is that the great-season-team will be at best in the same room, briefly, as the big dogs.  They're still sitting at the kids table when the food comes out.  There's a lot of chatter about how the gap has closed, and yet I look at my bracket and still see Whitewater and Mount alive, undefeated, and barely tested this year.

To add some context: Mount Union has lost exactly four games to teams not named Whitewater or Mary Hardin-Baylor since 2000.  St. John beat them in 2003; Ohio Northern in 2005; John Carroll in 2016; North Central in 2019.  In a two decade timespan, you can count them on one hand.  And nobody, aside from the Warhawks (six times) and Cru (three times), has done it twice.  It's thousandaires and billionaires.

To continue the analogy, North Central gets to stay for dessert, for now, based on its wins in 2019 and its continued success so far this year.  Everybody else this side of Mary Hardin-Baylor is in the kitchen helping with the dishes or pulling the cars around.  NCC has a rare opportunity to ascend beyond "huh, that was the weird year where someone else won".  As an alum, I hope the Cardinals take advantage and start to change the discussion.  But I don't find conversations to be especially serious if they are suggesting that teams stringing together a couple of playoff wins against other competition have proven anything relative to the programs in Alliance and Southeastern Wisconsin, especially when we have a two-decade long track record that suggests otherwise.

I like the way you think, Kiko. Very refreshing in a culture of rapid-anointing and microwave crowning. I would suggest perhaps even more patience in terms of declaring a program to be among the purples.  If NCC goes back to back, that would be very impressive and they will obviously be in the Stagg Bowl discussion for the foreseeable future. However, I think the true test of their program will be beyond the playing days of Greenfield, Kamienski, et al.  If they can go to Stagg Bowls once those studs are done, then we might have to talk about the purple and red elite programs. Until then, we can certainly say hats off to NCC for putting together an incredibly talented team for a couple of years.

Favorite new phrases of the week!  Agreed.  A lot of football left to play this year, but being able to have continued success without Broc Rutter and a freshman at the helm instead is step 1 down this path.

[robertgoulet]

A great season team can still upset a great program team. You have to start somewhere to build. The elite players want to play for a championship, if you can show it is possible, you draw more elite players. Nothing like a national championship to boost recruitment. That is what builds the great programs. Every year it is repeated makes it that much easier to repeat it.

Of course.  And sometimes it is, as an individual game, not even an upset.  But those games are exceptionally rare.

What this means is that the great-season-team will be at best in the same room, briefly, as the big dogs.  They're still sitting at the kids table when the food comes out.  There's a lot of chatter about how the gap has closed, and yet I look at my bracket and still see Whitewater and Mount alive, undefeated, and barely tested this year.

To add some context: Mount Union has lost exactly four games to teams not named Whitewater or Mary Hardin-Baylor since 2000.  St. John beat them in 2003; Ohio Northern in 2005; John Carroll in 2016; North Central in 2019.  In a two decade timespan, you can count them on one hand.  And nobody, aside from the Warhawks (six times) and Cru (three times), has done it twice.  It's thousandaires and billionaires.

To continue the analogy, North Central gets to stay for dessert, for now, based on its wins in 2019 and its continued success so far this year.  Everybody else this side of Mary Hardin-Baylor is in the kitchen helping with the dishes or pulling the cars around.  NCC has a rare opportunity to ascend beyond "huh, that was the weird year where someone else won".  As an alum, I hope the Cardinals take advantage and start to change the discussion.  But I don't find conversations to be especially serious if they are suggesting that teams stringing together a couple of playoff wins against other competition have proven anything relative to the programs in Alliance and Southeastern Wisconsin, especially when we have a two-decade long track record that suggests otherwise.

I like the way you think, Kiko. Very refreshing in a culture of rapid-anointing and microwave crowning. I would suggest perhaps even more patience in terms of declaring a program to be among the purples.  If NCC goes back to back, that would be very impressive and they will obviously be in the Stagg Bowl discussion for the foreseeable future. However, I think the true test of their program will be beyond the playing days of Greenfield, Kamienski, et al.  If they can go to Stagg Bowls once those studs are done, then we might have to talk about the purple and red elite programs. Until then, we can certainly say hats off to NCC for putting together an incredibly talented team for a couple of years.

Favorite new phrases of the week!  Agreed.  A lot of football left to play this year, but being able to have continued success without Broc Rutter and a freshman at the helm instead is step 1 down this path.

The only worry at this point is that Lehnen's baseball career continues ascending and he has possible pro opportunities. If he sticks with football he is going to be a problem for the rest of the CCIW.

[New Tradition]

A great season team can still upset a great program team. You have to start somewhere to build. The elite players want to play for a championship, if you can show it is possible, you draw more elite players. Nothing like a national championship to boost recruitment. That is what builds the great programs. Every year it is repeated makes it that much easier to repeat it.

Of course.  And sometimes it is, as an individual game, not even an upset.  But those games are exceptionally rare.

What this means is that the great-season-team will be at best in the same room, briefly, as the big dogs.  They're still sitting at the kids table when the food comes out.  There's a lot of chatter about how the gap has closed, and yet I look at my bracket and still see Whitewater and Mount alive, undefeated, and barely tested this year.

To add some context: Mount Union has lost exactly four games to teams not named Whitewater or Mary Hardin-Baylor since 2000.  St. John beat them in 2003; Ohio Northern in 2005; John Carroll in 2016; North Central in 2019.  In a two decade timespan, you can count them on one hand.  And nobody, aside from the Warhawks (six times) and Cru (three times), has done it twice.  It's thousandaires and billionaires.

To continue the analogy, North Central gets to stay for dessert, for now, based on its wins in 2019 and its continued success so far this year.  Everybody else this side of Mary Hardin-Baylor is in the kitchen helping with the dishes or pulling the cars around.  NCC has a rare opportunity to ascend beyond "huh, that was the weird year where someone else won".  As an alum, I hope the Cardinals take advantage and start to change the discussion.  But I don't find conversations to be especially serious if they are suggesting that teams stringing together a couple of playoff wins against other competition have proven anything relative to the programs in Alliance and Southeastern Wisconsin, especially when we have a two-decade long track record that suggests otherwise.

I like the way you think, Kiko. Very refreshing in a culture of rapid-anointing and microwave crowning. I would suggest perhaps even more patience in terms of declaring a program to be among the purples.  If NCC goes back to back, that would be very impressive and they will obviously be in the Stagg Bowl discussion for the foreseeable future. However, I think the true test of their program will be beyond the playing days of Greenfield, Kamienski, et al.  If they can go to Stagg Bowls once those studs are done, then we might have to talk about the purple and red elite programs. Until then, we can certainly say hats off to NCC for putting together an incredibly talented team for a couple of years.

Favorite new phrases of the week!  Agreed.  A lot of football left to play this year, but being able to have continued success without Broc Rutter and a freshman at the helm instead is step 1 down this path.

The only worry at this point is that Lehnen's baseball career continues ascending and he has possible pro opportunities. If he sticks with football he is going to be a problem for the rest of the CCIW.

As it stands, definitely grateful that the seasons don't abut one another. 

[USee]

I don't know much about RPI, looking forward to getting a good look on Saturday. They bring in a top 25 defense and play in a tough league, beating Cortland, Ithaca and Union this year (all top 25 teams at one point). The most points they have given up is 22pts and the most they have scored is 38 (they have scored over 24 pts only 2x this season). They have 3 LB's that lead their defense and are the top tacklers on the team. They have only sacked the opposing QB 13 times this year. They have 2 RB's who have combined for over 1,000 yds and the QB has thrown for 28 TD's on just 6 INT's.

Seems like if North Central can score in the 30's they have a good chance of winning.

[Gregory Sager]

A great season team can still upset a great program team. You have to start somewhere to build. The elite players want to play for a championship, if you can show it is possible, you draw more elite players. Nothing like a national championship to boost recruitment. That is what builds the great programs. Every year it is repeated makes it that much easier to repeat it.

Of course.  And sometimes it is, as an individual game, not even an upset.  But those games are exceptionally rare.

What this means is that the great-season-team will be at best in the same room, briefly, as the big dogs.  They're still sitting at the kids table when the food comes out.  There's a lot of chatter about how the gap has closed, and yet I look at my bracket and still see Whitewater and Mount alive, undefeated, and barely tested this year.

To add some context: Mount Union has lost exactly four games to teams not named Whitewater or Mary Hardin-Baylor since 2000.  St. John beat them in 2003; Ohio Northern in 2005; John Carroll in 2016; North Central in 2019.  In a two decade timespan, you can count them on one hand.  And nobody, aside from the Warhawks (six times) and Cru (three times), has done it twice.  It's thousandaires and billionaires.

To continue the analogy, North Central gets to stay for dessert, for now, based on its wins in 2019 and its continued success so far this year.  Everybody else this side of Mary Hardin-Baylor is in the kitchen helping with the dishes or pulling the cars around.  NCC has a rare opportunity to ascend beyond "huh, that was the weird year where someone else won".  As an alum, I hope the Cardinals take advantage and start to change the discussion.  But I don't find conversations to be especially serious if they are suggesting that teams stringing together a couple of playoff wins against other competition have proven anything relative to the programs in Alliance and Southeastern Wisconsin, especially when we have a two-decade long track record that suggests otherwise.

I like the way you think, Kiko. Very refreshing in a culture of rapid-anointing and microwave crowning. I would suggest perhaps even more patience in terms of declaring a program to be among the purples.  If NCC goes back to back, that would be very impressive and they will obviously be in the Stagg Bowl discussion for the foreseeable future. However, I think the true test of their program will be beyond the playing days of Greenfield, Kamienski, et al.  If they can go to Stagg Bowls once those studs are done, then we might have to talk about the purple and red elite programs. Until then, we can certainly say hats off to NCC for putting together an incredibly talented team for a couple of years.

Favorite new phrases of the week!  Agreed.  A lot of football left to play this year, but being able to have continued success without Broc Rutter and a freshman at the helm instead is step 1 down this path.

The only worry at this point is that Lehnen's baseball career continues ascending and he has possible pro opportunities. If he sticks with football he is going to be a problem for the rest of the CCIW.

Most of you guys are football-only types; I'm not. And I can tell you that if Lehnen sticks with baseball, he is still going to be a problem for the rest of the CCIW.

(Last season he was both CCIW Pitcher of the Year and CCIW Newcomer of the Year.)

[hazzben]

A great season team can still upset a great program team. You have to start somewhere to build. The elite players want to play for a championship, if you can show it is possible, you draw more elite players. Nothing like a national championship to boost recruitment. That is what builds the great programs. Every year it is repeated makes it that much easier to repeat it.

Of course.  And sometimes it is, as an individual game, not even an upset.  But those games are exceptionally rare.

What this means is that the great-season-team will be at best in the same room, briefly, as the big dogs.  They're still sitting at the kids table when the food comes out.  There's a lot of chatter about how the gap has closed, and yet I look at my bracket and still see Whitewater and Mount alive, undefeated, and barely tested this year.

To add some context: Mount Union has lost exactly four games to teams not named Whitewater or Mary Hardin-Baylor since 2000.  St. John beat them in 2003; Ohio Northern in 2005; John Carroll in 2016; North Central in 2019.  In a two decade timespan, you can count them on one hand.  And nobody, aside from the Warhawks (six times) and Cru (three times), has done it twice.  It's thousandaires and billionaires.

To continue the analogy, North Central gets to stay for dessert, for now, based on its wins in 2019 and its continued success so far this year.  Everybody else this side of Mary Hardin-Baylor is in the kitchen helping with the dishes or pulling the cars around.  NCC has a rare opportunity to ascend beyond "huh, that was the weird year where someone else won".  As an alum, I hope the Cardinals take advantage and start to change the discussion.  But I don't find conversations to be especially serious if they are suggesting that teams stringing together a couple of playoff wins against other competition have proven anything relative to the programs in Alliance and Southeastern Wisconsin, especially when we have a two-decade long track record that suggests otherwise.

I like the way you think, Kiko. Very refreshing in a culture of rapid-anointing and microwave crowning. I would suggest perhaps even more patience in terms of declaring a program to be among the purples.  If NCC goes back to back, that would be very impressive and they will obviously be in the Stagg Bowl discussion for the foreseeable future. However, I think the true test of their program will be beyond the playing days of Greenfield, Kamienski, et al.  If they can go to Stagg Bowls once those studs are done, then we might have to talk about the purple and red elite programs. Until then, we can certainly say hats off to NCC for putting together an incredibly talented team for a couple of years.

Favorite new phrases of the week!  Agreed.  A lot of football left to play this year, but being able to have continued success without Broc Rutter and a freshman at the helm instead is step 1 down this path.

The difference I see in the past 3-4 years is that the gap has clearly narrowed.

For a good chunk of the "Purple Reign" there were years where the only competitive game Mount and UWW played was against one another, and maybe 1 close playoff game (for UWW in the West/North). Or we entered the playoffs and a person could wager their 401k that the Stagg would be Mount v. UWW. That no longer seems to be the case. No one has put together consistent success like these two. We used to talk about Tiers. Purple Tier (Mount & UWW), Semifinal Threat Tier (teams in the top 3-8 nationally), The Rest of the Field. Semi-Final tier could blowout about anyone in the bottom Tier. But the Purple Tier often Monkey Stomped the Semifinal Tier.

It's not mutually exclusive to recognize the playoffs are more interesting right now with what appear to be 4+ teams capable of winning the whole thing, and also acknowledge no one has done what Mount and UWW have done in terms of dynasty. It might still be a Mount/UWW Stagg this year (that wouldn't shock me one bit), but it's far from the forgone conclusion it once was.

10 years ago, we'd get maybe one team a year capable of even threatening the Purple Reign. Even 'great season' teams often fell far short of really pushing the Purple Powers. Now the 'great season' teams are more than just a single outlier, and actually seem capable of making the Stagg and even winning it.

[USee]

HansenRatings has the following for this weekend:

MHB v Linfield +5
North Central v RPI +36
Mt Union v Muhlenberg +11.5
UWW v Central +6

As a reminder last week he had NCC -19 (they won by 14), Wheaton -1 (lost by 2), Mt Union -13 (won by 10), UWW -31.

[robertgoulet]

HansenRatings has the following for this weekend:

MHB v Linfield +5
North Central v RPI +36
Mt Union v Muhlenberg +11.5
UWW v Central +6

As a reminder last week he had NCC -19 (they won by 14), Wheaton -1 (lost by 2), Mt Union -13 (won by 10), UWW -31.

I think I'd go:
MHB v Linfield +4
NCC v RPI +29
MU v Muhl +16
UWW v Central +9

[WashedUpCard]

Nice article on NCC's "back-up" running back Terrence Hill:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/naperville-sun/sports/ct-nvs-cfb-ncc-hill-st-1201-20211130-3ntkiaaaa5ah3apt6bms5xptme-story.html

[Next Man Up]

A great season team can still upset a great program team. You have to start somewhere to build. The elite players want to play for a championship, if you can show it is possible, you draw more elite players. Nothing like a national championship to boost recruitment. That is what builds the great programs. Every year it is repeated makes it that much easier to repeat it.

Of course.  And sometimes it is, as an individual game, not even an upset.  But those games are exceptionally rare.

What this means is that the great-season-team will be at best in the same room, briefly, as the big dogs.  They're still sitting at the kids table when the food comes out.  There's a lot of chatter about how the gap has closed, and yet I look at my bracket and still see Whitewater and Mount alive, undefeated, and barely tested this year.

To add some context: Mount Union has lost exactly four games to teams not named Whitewater or Mary Hardin-Baylor since 2000.  St. John beat them in 2003; Ohio Northern in 2005; John Carroll in 2016; North Central in 2019.  In a two decade timespan, you can count them on one hand.  And nobody, aside from the Warhawks (six times) and Cru (three times), has done it twice.  It's thousandaires and billionaires.

To continue the analogy, North Central gets to stay for dessert, for now, based on its wins in 2019 and its continued success so far this year.  Everybody else this side of Mary Hardin-Baylor is in the kitchen helping with the dishes or pulling the cars around.  NCC has a rare opportunity to ascend beyond "huh, that was the weird year where someone else won".  As an alum, I hope the Cardinals take advantage and start to change the discussion.  But I don't find conversations to be especially serious if they are suggesting that teams stringing together a couple of playoff wins against other competition have proven anything relative to the programs in Alliance and Southeastern Wisconsin, especially when we have a two-decade long track record that suggests otherwise.

I like the way you think, Kiko. Very refreshing in a culture of rapid-anointing and microwave crowning. I would suggest perhaps even more patience in terms of declaring a program to be among the purples.  If NCC goes back to back, that would be very impressive and they will obviously be in the Stagg Bowl discussion for the foreseeable future. However, I think the true test of their program will be beyond the playing days of Greenfield, Kamienski, et al.  If they can go to Stagg Bowls once those studs are done, then we might have to talk about the purple and red elite programs. Until then, we can certainly say hats off to NCC for putting together an incredibly talented team for a couple of years.

Favorite new phrases of the week!  Agreed.  A lot of football left to play this year, but being able to have continued success without Broc Rutter and a freshman at the helm instead is step 1 down this path.

The only worry at this point is that Lehnen's baseball career continues ascending and he has possible pro opportunities. If he sticks with football he is going to be a problem for the rest of the CCIW.

Most of you guys are football-only types; I'm not. And I can tell you that if Lehnen sticks with baseball, he is still going to be a problem for the rest of the CCIW.

(Last season he was both CCIW Pitcher of the Year and CCIW Newcomer of the Year.)

I'm not a football only "type" either. As such, I can confirm that Luke Lehnen was indeed the CCIW Baseball Newcomer of the Year, but that he was definitely not the CCIW Pitcher of the Year. Given the fact that he pitched exactly 0.0 innings last season, that would seemingly have been an impossibility. Last season's CCIW Pitcher of the Year was another NCC Luke, last name Lamm, not Lehnen. 

Additional fact—-
Not only is Luke Lehnen an accomplished college football and baseball player, but the Cardinals would have also loved the benefit of his services on the hardwood. He was a Class 3A Honorable Mention All-State basketball player who, in his senior year, hit 86 three pointers.